Restoration programs

[Jamz]

Which resotation program does the best job?...
- Eliminating scratches and pops from vinyl
- clearing up audio tapes i.e. microcassettes, depositions

The Waves bundle has been out a while but now there is the Sony Bundle and Bias now offers Soundsoap Pro. I believe there's Cedar as well.


Any comments.

[JohnMcD]

Hey Jamz, I'm also in the market for NR and DClicking. My list of stuff I've found:

I know that the Weiss standalone unit called the DNA1 is about $7500.

But on the other hand, I've used Soundsoap extensively. Believe me, you get what you pay for. It does an okay job for minnimal Noise Reduction. When it begins replacing and synthesizing, that is when it begins to sound like junk. Horrible and very awful sounding artifacts that make the original noise in the program material better sounding! And yes, this is after taking very well edited noise prints/estimates. I never want to go back to SoundSoap again. I have used it for close to 4 months.

I think the Cedar plug-ins are for Sadie only. I've only used Sonic No-Noise only once. Beautiful, but damn it all to hell, I gotta buy another processor board to use it! Very expensive, in fact, I might as well spring for the Weiss if I was going in that direction.

But then, I just remembered! I'm going to be using ProTools in another week! I know for $1500, there is a Sonic No-Noise plug in for ProTools. If it is anything like what Sonic Studio has within the system, then that may be my key link to better NR and DeClicking for now.

You mentioned the Waves plug ins, and I am very interested in what other people have to say about them.

I also know Cedar hardware can be economical in terms of price vs functionality. But what I don't understand is how to operate the damn things! Some have only a button or two, other units have none at all! I am talking just about the standalone units, which seem very odd to me. Must be automatic or something.

Also in the same price category as the above, there is TC Electronic Noise Restoration plug ins for the Powercore.

Overall, I am slowly making my way through the options as well. I haven't commited, but I'm in the same boat. I'd love to hear other products and or reviews of stuff I already mentioned. I know there are probably more expensive options, but I am definately in the "not enough money to spend on" category.

Thanks and sorry if I may have hijacked the thread a bit.,

-John

[NeoVXR]

steinberg declicker is quite nice when there are single clicks, somewhat weaker for "wood fire" sound.

waves declicker is similar, maybe somewhat better.

waves decrackler does a remarkable job, but must be tuned well, and can also help in some cases of distorted/overdriven recordings, e.g. crackling sounds because of voice clipping. it can hide single events, of course not when the whole track is bad.

waves denoiser sounds smooth but has certainly an impact on sound. nice HF range ajusting.

I did not like the waves de-hum
many denoisers are capable of blocking ground-loop hum also.

I would recommend demoing the waves suite.

[Jamz]

This is my issue...

I have the Waves Platinum Bundle and would like the L3 without paying through the nose. My WUP expired. Given the choice of purchasing the L3 outright or upgrading to the Diamond Bundle the latter makes more economic sense. However, since I purchased the Gold Bundle years ago (which was the "everything Bundle at that time) I've had to constantly purchase every piece of software even thought their original come on was..."buy this and you're covered for a year". Has never happened.
I bought the Gold bundle...and the C4, and the Doppler, L2 etc. Nothing was ever included under their sales pitch.

I can use a good restoration program. Maybe upgrading to Diamond can be substantiated. I would love to demo as well. However, you can't if you have an exisitng bundle authorized under version 5. I called Waves about this. They told me I can demo if I download the software into a different computer that does not have any Waves 5 Bundles.
Crazy!!!!

So I want to hear about any and all restoration programs before making decisions.

It shouldn't be the WUP program but rather the

Screw
Customers
Under
Duress

[pounce]

i do use the waves restoration bundle. very useful. much better than the cheaper stuff, like soundsoap. otoh, every account suggests that cedar and no noise are the best things out there. i haven't had the chance to use those, but i don't have huge restoration work to do. for me, simple cassette clean up is easily accomplished with the waves bundle. at least waves gives a fully functional time limited demo, so you can try before you buy. it's worth a look. i don't think soundsoap would give pro users enough control to do more aggressive restoration.

[JohnMcD]

Yeah, I used the VST DeNoiser and DeClicker a looooong time ago. Way back when I was using Cubase VST 32 v5.0

Basically, the DeNoiser was a downward expander that cost a lot of money at the time. The DeClicker was horrible and very "dumb" with and when getting rid of clicks. Believe it or not, SoundSoap is better than these two. But that is what naturally happens with newer technology. But BIAS certainly wasn't innovative.

Maybe I'm a little too harsh on SoundSoap. It does the job, but anything beyond a certain threshold, and it actually -god forbid- synthesizes and adds meaningless junk to the program material! This is where I draw the line. What is even more atrocious, is the fact that it is very audible, almost as audible as the original noise you were having trouble with! Some times louder than the original noise.

I'm pretty intensive when it comes to software and/or equipment. When I have Noise or De-Clicking problems, it usually IS a problem. I don't consider SoundSoap "Pro Audio". They don't advertise it as such either.

I know the Sonic Studio's NoNoise and DeClicker are very hands on in manipulation in terms of getting your noise reduction right! I don't know if it is the same for the ProTools version. What strikes me funny is that Sonic Studio has no relation to this plug in. They advertise other ProTools file sharing stuff, but don't have anything on their site regarding the NoNoise for ProTools. It is being sold by Sonic Solutions. So maybe there is a bit of difference.

Waves does sound interesting. The pedigree from the fact that they have made the world famous L2; I guess they may be something to look at. Although, you can't get the restoration plugs with the Diamond bundle! You gotta buy the Restoration bundle. Pretty clever I suppose.

Although, one I'm watching carefully would be TC Electronic. They have done restoration for the System 6000. My hope is that some of that mojo drips down to the Powercore.

Anyways, I'm highly motivated by this discussion because this is one of the essential things for me that I continually have to work with. Once I do have the money saved up by hopefully this summer, I can afford a bigger and better thing like the Weiss. I can breathe a sigh of relief then. The Weiss however, doesn't have a De-Clicker just yet. They give you a free upgrade when it is ready.

I do however believe one of Bob Katz' post somewhere either on Glenn Meadows forum or ProSound. It was about restoration and he reviewed a few items. He did conclude that you do get what you pay for with these type of programs.

I just wish I knew about what can be used effectively before the time comes to spend the big money! For me, it'll be awhile and right now I'm definately going to need something much better than SoundSoap.

Have you guys heard anything on other restoration programs?

-John

[Jamz]

John
1.- The Restoration Bundle is included with the Diamond Bundle.
2.- When you mention Soundsoap do you mean the original $99. software or the newly released Soundsoap Pro?

In general:
I have version 5 Platinum and 360 Bundles installed in my G5. I called Waves about demoing the L3. I was told that as long as there is any version 5 bundle authorized in the computer any other Waves demos will not run.
Therefore, I cannot demo the Restoration Bundle.

[zemlin]

Adobe Audition NR seems quite good to me. The new "Frequency Space Editing" is a FANTASTIC tool when you need to edit or clean up a specific frequency range without disturbing the rest of the signal - a VERY powerful tool. The click removal tools get the job done, but I often use a $40 third party filter called "clickfix" - between clickfix and the native filters, I have cleaned up some pretty poor records.

[adzski]

Check out these tools from Magix,

http://www.samplitude.com/de/v8_algor_ov.htm

And this

http://site.magix.net/index.php?471

Quite unbelievable for $29.99

Adam

[JohnMcD]

1.- The Restoration Bundle is included with the Diamond Bundle.

I went back and looked. You are right. I just didn't notice that they listed the individual plug ins as opposed to the bundle during my cursory glance.

2.- When you mention Soundsoap do you mean the original $99. software or the newly released Soundsoap Pro?

Both. I used the standalone SS for the longest time. Before that, I was using SS Pro in Peak. I continually get updates for Peak, so it was a no brainer with using SS Pro in it.

I haven't heard of Adobe Audition. That is interesting.

As to the plug-ins for Sequoia, they definately look flashy. I just wish they were available for other platforms...Or are they?

-John

[adzski]

Originally posted by JohnMcD

As to the plug-ins for Sequoia, they definately look flashy. I just wish they were available for other platforms...Or are they?

-John

No - dont think its likely to happen anytime soon.

Adam