Considering buying Superior Drummer 2.0

[357mag]

For those of you who have and use Superior Drummer 2.0 please chime in. I'm thinking of picking it up. Have read some favorable reviews on it. I tried the BFD2 demo but it was rather lame. I couldn't even maximize the window cuz the maximize button was all greyed out. Plus I couldn't use it within Reaper, only as standalone. In addition to that, I've read many people having problems with BFD2, so I'm a little hesitant to buy it.

But this Superior Drummer looks like it might be the way to go. I hope it comes with a good online or printed manual, cuz I'm rather new to this.

[Virtuoso]

I got mine a few days ago but have only flicked through the sounds and mixer presets so far. The sounds are excellent, but I would rather have had the midi browser integrated into the plugin like EZDrummer, rather than as a separate plugin (EZPlayer Pro).

You don't get a printed manual, but you can download the pdf manual here.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Pretty amazing sounding kit in this one. It's very smooth and high end sounding. Really great huge roomy sound. On it's own it's a very specific sound so I wouldn't make it my only sample set, but combined with the original Superior samples it offers a good variety. I personally really love the interface as well. The original 1.0 interface was pretty frustrating, but this one is nice and intuitive.

One thing I DON'T like about it which will (apperently) eventually be "fixed" is...

They advertise that it comes with all these great Sonalksis effects (comp, EQ, gate, transient) but the engine won't include the effects in the bounce. Since the greatest part of the DFHS experience is the fact that you can bounce down the kit and get audio tracks of not just each mic, but the bleed from each mic, this is a HUGE disappointment. It's as though they are advertising the full product, but when you buy and install the product you get the demo version with this debilitating omission.

In it's current version you get to choose: 1. Use as a real time sampler that consumes vast amounts of RAM and CPU and use the included effects, constantly juggling the freeze button and all the headaches that come with that. OR 2. Bounce the tracks to beautiful clean audio which can be freely edited and mixed and forgo the included effects.

The moderators at their forum have this weird attitude like... "why would you actually want to USE the effects?" In my opinion it's a bit dishonest of them to advertise functionality that doesn't actually work. But that seems to be the norm in software these days.

So the verdict: Awesome sounding samples, excellent interface... don't buy it for the included effects. Hopefully one day they'll actually work.

[Studio Dweller]

I agree that having the effects in the bounce feature would be nice. However, wouldn't it work if you just set each channel in the Superior mixer (ie: kick, snare, etc.) to separate outputs (1-16) and then create audio tracks in your DAW set to the corresponding inputs? Hit record and I would think any effects used on those channels would be printed by doing it that way. I haven't actually tried it, but that seems like it would be the way to make it work in Pro Tools.

[Nuno_F]

Also the integration with edrums is not as good as in the original software. May not be an issue to you, but pretty important to me :(

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Studio Dweller

wouldn't it work if you just set each channel in the Superior mixer (ie: kick, snare, etc.) to separate outputs (1-16) and then create audio tracks in your DAW set to the corresponding inputs? Hit record and I would think any effects used on those channels would be printed by doing it that way.

Exactly.....
Record your drums instead of using the bounce feature.
I would be surprised if Toontrack are saying "why would you want to use the fx?" too.
They controversially delayed the launch of Superior 2 while they developed the fx with Sonalksis.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Nuno_F

Also the integration with edrums is not as good as in the original software. (

How so?
Nir Z has been plastered all over YouTube playing his Hart kit with S2 effortlessly.

[357mag]

Well mine just arrived today. I haven't gotten around to opening it or installing it yet. But what are you saying about non-functional effects? Do you mean that if I put the included compressor on one drum, and let's say the included EQ on another track, they would not be transferred into the final audio?

Granted, I'm really new to all this, so I'm not even sure what you mean by "bounce" either. I know how to record guitar and bass tracks, but now I'm just at the point where I need to start learning how to work with drum software.

If I routed each drum and cymbal to it's own track in Reaper, would the effects stay with those tracks?

[chrisso]

Once you have all the drums sounding good and the drum parts arranged it's usual to 'bounce' them to audio to save on computer activity.

[357mag]

Let me see if I understand you correctly. Bear with me cuz I'm not familiar with this stuff quite yet. Let's say I have 3 drum tracks in the Superior Drummer Mixer. Let's say I have this for example:

Track 1 - Kick Drum
Track 2 - Snare Drum
Track 3 - Hi-Hat

And let's continue:

Track 1 - Kick Drum with their compressor on it
Track 2 - Snare Drum with their EQ on it
Track 3 - Hi-Hat with their EQ on it

Now I route each one of those tracks to corresponding tracks in Reaper, so in Reaper I have:

Track 1 - Kick Drum with their compressor on it
Track 2 - Snare Drum with their EQ on it
Track 3 - Hi-Hat with their EQ on it

Now I go into the File Menu or some kind of menu or hit a "Record" button and those tracks will be recorded into their individual tracks in Reaper with the effects preserved?

I don't understand why you need to record something that is already present? I can see why you need to record something onto a track that isn't there yet like a guitar, but if you are using drum software, aren't the drum patterns and everything already there in the software? I thought all you need to do is drag and drop onto a track in your DAW and you're done.

[s_sibs]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

The moderators at their forum have this weird attitude like... "why would you actually want to USE the effects?" In my opinion it's a bit dishonest of them to advertise functionality that doesn't actually work. But that seems to be the norm in software these days.

Perhaps you're referring to a post of mine where I was questioning how/when users were using the bounce and how/when they were applying their effects and how/when they would need to have effected bounced tracks. My post had no negative attitude whatsoever.

I'm not a moderator nor do I work for Toontrack in any way. I'm a betatester.

There are alot of different users of S2. Some are live e-drummers where using real time effects are useful for them. The software isn't broken for them or has functionality that doesn't work. Some users freeze S2 to unload the RAM and to ease CPU hit. The effects work just fine for them.

I do understand that bouncing including effects is important for some users but definitely not for all users and the effect do work great in quite a number of user setups. So to say that "it's a bit dishonest of them to advertise functionality that doesn't actually work" I think is a bit unfair IMHO.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by 357mag

I don't understand why you need to record something that is already present?

To program realistic sounding drums requires a lot of data.
In addition, you are triggering hundreds of audio files in Superior for every bar.
This can be extremely taxing on your computers functionality.
It's fine while you are working on the drums, but if you then want to start adding plug-in fx on other instruments, plus virtual synths, your computer is going to collapse under the strain.
Therefore, most Superior users prefer to record their drums once they are settled with them, then you can freeze the drum software and free up some computer power for other tasks.

[357mag]

So if I'm working with the Superior Drummer Mixer and I feel all my drums and cymbals sound good I somehow record them onto corresponding tracks in Reaper? All Sonalksis effects are then preserved?

[chrisso]

You would already be in Reaper - using Superior 2.0 as a virtual instrument (plug-in).

[357mag]

If I am already in Reaper and I have Superior Drummer open then it seems to me I should be able to find a groove I like and drag and drop it onto a blank track in Reaper. Isn't that how you do it like in EZ Drummer? That's what the video showed.

I still don't understand about this "record" thing, like that one guy said. By "recording" are you just somehow transferring the drum tracks from the Superior mixer to individual tracks in your recording host?

Actually, I may not understand this until I reach this stage, but I'm trying to understand it now.

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by chrisso

How so?
Nir Z has been plastered all over YouTube playing his Hart kit with S2 effortlessly.

Probably using toontrack solo. Try to get a realistic Hihat sound using it as a plygin insided a host.

When I posted this in the Toontrack forum they said the pedal in my TD3 is no good, yet worked fine with the previous version of superior.

[kgdrum_nyc]

i have Superior 2 and it looks and sounds very cool.
what i don't understand as of yet,I use with a TD 20 and Roland pads.......
do you adjust the TD-20 for trigger sensitivity or do you the make adjustments for triggering pads in Superior 2 ?
i need to bring up the sensitivity and hope there is a way to make the adjustments w/ S2 so my TD 20 works correctly with its own sounds.... as of now the sensitivity as well as the volume is too low
how do you access templates or make pad trigger templates for it?
do I just get the corresponding pads to trigger correctly and save it ?
i have been reading and looking in the manual but haven't figured it out yet.
it's a drummer thing
thanks
KG

[Nuno_F]

Originally Posted by kgdrum_nyc

i have Superior 2 and it looks and sounds very cool.
what i don't understand as of yet,I use with a TD 20 and Roland pads.......
do you adjust the TD-20 for trigger sensitivity or do you the make adjustments for triggering pads in Superior 2 ?
i need to bring up the sensitivity and hope there is a way to make the adjustments w/ S2 so my TD 20 works correctly with its own sounds.... as of now the sensitivity as well as the volume is too low
how do you access templates or make pad trigger templates for it?
do I just get the corresponding pads to trigger correctly and save it ?
i have been reading and looking in the manual but haven't figured it out yet.
it's a drummer thing
thanks
KG

As far as they said in the toontrack forum the edrum templates thing didn't make it to the initial release and will only be implemented at a later date.

I think for now you'd have to adust all pads to respond the way you want it and then save a project and start all your projects from that one.

I could not get anything that even remotely resembles the hihat response of Superior 1.5

[grandaddy]

357mag - I wouldn't get to hung up on the bounce thing - the bounce feature was introduced in dfhs 1 and at the time was a unique feature, and, as far as I'm aware, most other samplers do not have now.

You will still be able to use the effects in real time as you would with any other virtual instrument and if you want to save system resources you can use your DAWs features to mix the tracks down (render, export etc)to audio...including the effects

Nuno F - If you haven't already done so download and install the 2.01 update. This solves many of the issues experienced with the hihat. I would honestly say the hats now perform as well as, if not better than, dfhs 1

[slapswan]

For those of you that already have Superior Drummer 2.0: How do you like the included midi library? Does it include diverse styles? I have Ezdrummer and couple expansion packs and I am curious how the midi library in Superior 2.0 compares?

[blakegaston]

Originally Posted by slapswan

For those of you that already have Superior Drummer 2.0: How do you like the included midi library? Does it include diverse styles? I have Ezdrummer and couple expansion packs and I am curious how the midi library in Superior 2.0 compares?

I havent even touched the midi libs in SD2. After hearing a couple from EZdrummer I couldn't stand them. They are hard to get to fit the song (from my experience) and they sound generic. I like to program my own beats with a lot of dynamic and creativity.

[blakegaston]

I forgot to mention: I love the hi hats in SD2. Most the cymbals are pretty good and the kicks are definitely usable, and the toms are great. However, the snares...

Man the snares... I am a *total* snare *****. And I haven't been able to get much use from the snares in SD2. My personal opinion.

[Rufuss Sewell]

I absolutely adore the Black Beauty.

I also REALLY love the room sound on the snares.

[trevort]

I like the new Superior 2.0 interface but, I wish it
was a little better "out of the box".
I have a Td-20 and I need to do some edits to try and get a good hi-hat response and the cymbal chokes I haven't gotten to either.
So, it would be nice to have a better "out of the box" experience.
As far as the sounds go they are good but, I prefer the C&V drums over these for the most part but, then I don't really like a lot of modern drum sounds so, kind of a preference. The snares are really snappy!
Almost to the point of being annoying if you ask me I can't get them to mix well they take over too much of the drum mix! So, not sure about them.
Too me these drums sound too over processed which is fine if that's what you are going for.
Just My opinion.

TT

[thedommer]

Ive had it for a few weeks and I must say its awesome. at first it was not awesome. it was very crippled. BUT they released EZplayer pro and superior 2.0 updates. YOU MUST GET THESE as they fix a lot of major issues.

The hugest issue for me was host sync. it didn't work before the update!

The sounds are awesome but not as versatile as Id like. I hope they release a C&V type addon and something indie cool hip... or whatever . just different and less stadium rock.. I also find the mixer presets not to be terribly versatile. they aren't bad, there just isn't enough and some of the ridiculous ones could of been switched out for something a little better.

Im not sure about the complaining about the bounce feature. I haven't reached a point where I've maxed out my computer(mac pro 08 8 core) and needed to use that. I presume to bypass needing to do that I could just send the output of s2.0 to a different track and record it....

Either way. S2.0 is worth it. you get a fantastic kit that you might not always use and a killer loop editing software. EZplayer pro is very good. it has some downsides. Cant seem to find any quick keys. I presume thats because as a plugin quickkeys arent allowed. and for some reason toontrack decided to go the old route and make the window a fixed size. I HATE when companies do that. I want to be able to make it as big as my monitor if I need to. or make it as big as my secondary monitor. But other then those few small complaints this drum program is awesome and essential for anyone who wants to intuitively create awesome sounding loops.

Once they add more midi loops and more drums this program will be as close to perfect as I can think of.

one more thing. havent experimented much with the plugins yet but from what Ive heard in the mixer presets they seem to be very very good. I hesitate to say better then BFD2s built in plugins as I havent compared them enough.

oh and you can use EZplayer with BFD2. BFD2s interface is pretty far behind S2.0s (even though it is waaaaaay better then BFD1) so I love that I can just bypass the loop editing stuff in BFD2 and let EZplayer control it.

[thedommer]

Originally Posted by trevort

I like the new Superior 2.0 interface but, I wish it
was a little better "out of the box".
I have a Td-20 and I need to do some edits to try and get a good hi-hat response and the cymbal chokes I haven't gotten to either.
So, it would be nice to have a better "out of the box" experience.
As far as the sounds go they are good but, I prefer the C&V drums over these for the most part but, then I don't really like a lot of modern drum sounds so, kind of a preference. The snares are really snappy!
Almost to the point of being annoying if you ask me I can't get them to mix well they take over too much of the drum mix! So, not sure about them.
Too me these drums sound too over processed which is fine if that's what you are going for.
Just My opinion.

TT

+1

definitely cant wait for a more interesting addon...although for what they are trying to be these drums are awesome.

[preben]

In terms of pure reality and sound how do S2 and BFD2 stack up against each other?

[s_sibs]

Originally Posted by thedommer

+1

definitely cant wait for a more interesting addon...although for what they are trying to be these drums are awesome.

Don't forget you can use any of the EZX libraries in S2. There are some great sounds in those libraries. I use the Nashville snare mixed with the Avatar kit all the time for variety and mix in some of the cymbals as well (18" Sabian AA Chinese Sizzle).

Yes, the EZXs are 16-bit whilst the Avatar kit is 24-bit, but I haven't had anyone complain about the sounds or be able to pick out the "16-bit" kit piece.

[thedommer]

Originally Posted by preben

In terms of pure reality and sound how do S2 and BFD2 stack up against each other?

they definitely sound different. s2.0 has a bit more of a sheen to me. I do like BFD2 sounds also though. S2.0 feels a bit more real. I can sit there all day tapping toms and going "wow". In terms of reliability I think S2.0 is better. however I have not spent a lot of time with BFD2. I find the S2.0 choice to split up kit and midi editing plugin very logical and way more intuitive.

overall I think S2.0 is the better product. however if you are just using it as a trigger for your e-drums then you might not notice much of a difference. Its the midi editing where S2 jumps ahead.

[Animus]

I think S2.0 is pretty badass. I have been getting some huge drum sounds mixing in some Steven Slate kick and snare, and doing my own processing with UAD plugs and Lexicon outboard. So far I really like the double coated evans kick (blending in a bit of hipassed Slate Black kick to get a nice 'point') and the GMS Maple snare. I love that they included a sub mic for the kick. I couldn't stand the cardboard kicks of S1.0. Great job all around I think. And 4 rooms to mix with. Nice.