Logic 7 "B afraid, B very afraid!!!!"

[kudzu]

Been surfin' 'bout the net 4 info on Logic 7 and found some very worrying stuff...





1) "...Just to put your minds at ease, Delay Compensation is coming for the full signal chain in Logic...."

James Cigler
Mac Product Specialist
Universal Audio
http://www.uaudio.com


2) " i just got off the phone with alex in technical development at emagic on the subject of PDC

it seems he is not "allowed" to make any comment on it and wasnt even able to hint whether it was in short or long term development for it - he was rather embarrassed about this

i pointed out that unless logic sort this out they are going to lose a chunk of their professional user base but nothing was forthcoming - he wanted to be helpful but official policy of apple silence prevailed "

What's going on? I think the smart guys will wait B4 we upgrade..surely Logic have 2 deal with this immediately!!!!

[jdunn]

Count me in the smart guy category then. I've been reading the Logic 7 forum on the Apple Discussion board, and it's indeed scary. There are over 300 posts within a week now, and a lot of people are upset because they just upgraded to Logic 6 and there's no grace period.

Add to that some apparent bugs, and Apple's weird hush hush policy about their software. It seems that Apples' purchase of Emagic was probably not a good thing after all, which is what I figured in the first place.

[pounce]

i'm not sure why it's quite as bad as this thread suggests. full adc is apparently coming, and apple (like many companies) won't comment on future or unreleased products. i suppose i got in at the right time, and i think the upgrade was worth the money. the first offering from apple instead of emagic was gonna ruffle some feathers, so just cause there is some bitching on the net doesn't really mean all that much. on the contrary, i think this is gonna be a great app. i DO think that apple needs to address some issues in logic, for sure. but i am happy to have the upgrade.

[BrianT]

Originally posted by pounce
full adc is apparently coming

In October of 2004, why should this statement be reassuring to Logic users? If Logic 7 had *included* full ADC at release, it would still have been a year behind Logic's prime competitor, namely Nuendo/SX. The most requested new feature in DAWs is a year late compared to the competition, and official company policy is that employees are forbidden to even discuss the subject?

If this were Steinberg instead of Apple, the users would be freaking out along the lines of "How come they have time to create Garage Band, etc, but can't add ADC to what is supposed to be their flagship product?" In the 14 months or so that elapsed between Logic 6 and Logic 7, virtually every other DAW added full PDC. Logic would be the last, even if it had shipped with it. But that's OK, because it will probably show up sooner or later at some unspecified time? Only Apple gets away with that. Now come on, you know that's true.

IMHO, Apple gets a pass from it's customers on issues like this far too often, and it ends up helping no one. AMD, Intel, MS, Steinberg, etc all hear plenty of loud and clear feedback from their customers who are quick to sniff out B.S. Again, IMHO, Apple and it's customers would both benefit from the same. For instance, if AMD or Intel had *commited to* delivering machines at 3000 MHz by a certain date, then at the last minute come up 500 MHz short, those customers would have been rightfully vocal about it. However, when it's a G5, it's not really a big deal because we're sure that Apple meant well, and after all it's not their fault.

OK, I'll get off it now, but from the outside looking in, Apple's customers very often come off looking more like apologists than paying customers holding a corporation's feet to the fire. I don't think that helps either Apple or it's customers in the long term.

[maks]

theres a great few tips by UWE at the logic forums-sonikmatter, on how to deal with bus latency...yeah a bit of a pain in the butt , oh well. Still workable, and i think those who upgraded got there moneys worth either way.. i wish i had the dough along with a new g5

[pounce]

every forum i go to is nothing but bitching. my post is a response to endless bitching i've read. certainly not a glut of apologists at the osxaudio forums. anyhow, logic will get pdc and i'm more than a little impatient about it too. it sucks that it's not there yet, but with solid sources saying it's coming, i temper my responses on the subject.

[Kestral]

From what I understand, Pro Tools LE doesn't have full PDC. So it's not just Apple.

Maybe it's just me but considering how expensive a computer and a DAW is, full PDC should be a given.

[BrianT]

Originally posted by pounce
every forum i go to is nothing but bitching. my post is a response to endless bitching i've read.

I can understand that.

[hmurchison]

Bitching and moaning about PDC is just an excuse for people who can't make good music. Excuses are like assholes..everyone gots one.

Intel just announed that the P4 isn't going to hit 4Ghz...seems like everyone is having problems with clock speed.

Apple doesn't owe people anything. They will deliver the features when ready. Make music people and stop trying to pretend you understand what a programmer must go through. You think making melodies and great songs are hard trying learning C++, Java, OBJ-C etc and working on millions of lines of code.

[pounce]

yeah, i -don't- want to be seen as an apologist per se. in the right time place or thread, i'll add my wishlist for companies like apple. no biggie, they make some hardware and software i use. however, it's when folks start with over the top titles like "be afraid, be very afraid" that i think the perspective is a little too far off. and every platform and daw has strengths and weaknesses, so there are pointed threads like this about -all- programs and platforms. i just prefer when threads are more helpful, or informative, or at least funny.

i happen to already be aware of the comments cited in the first post. i'd say logic is an interesting first release from apple with some obvious areas that need improvement. don't even ask me about waveburner. but it's an imbalanced look at the total picture. so it doesn't help anyone.

i can say this. i think it was a good move on my part to learn a couple of daw programs. i have four main ones on my computer. (all full legal and all that). frankly, it's great to compare these things firsthand. one thing that comes to mind is that they are all very similar. there are more differences in interface and workflow than there are in features i think. they can all do all of the basic stuff well.

some programs have had the pdc longer than others. DP only got it in this current update. Logic will have it shortly. you already have it on the audio tracks in logic, so you can make that work. and it had that long before the other programs had anything. there is some sort of puch pull to the developement where these apps push each other to add the cool features. either way, i can still make music today. and that's the most important thing.

[BrianT]

Originally posted by hmurchison
Bitching and moaning about PDC is just an excuse for people who can't make good music. Excuses are like assholes..everyone gots one.

Intel just announed that the P4 isn't going to hit 4Ghz...seems like everyone is having problems with clock speed.

Apple doesn't owe people anything. They will deliver the features when ready. Make music people and stop trying to pretend you understand what a programmer must go through. You think making melodies and great songs are hard trying learning C++, Java, OBJ-C etc and working on millions of lines of code.

The above post may get framed and put on the wall as an excellent example of an Apple apologist in action.

The fact is that Logic is the only major DAW without ADC. Why does it matter? Because computers are supposed to be doing the math, not musicians. ADC enables you/me/us to be musical and not mathmatical as we work. Seems a little more creatively productive, to me anyway.

I'd say maintaining proper phase alignment of the music without having to geekishly calculate plugin values and slide the audio around is a good thing. I'd say being able to add summed busses back into the mix in realtime is a good thing. People wanting to be able to focus on music and not math "is just an excuse for people who can't make good music"? Really? I disagree. I don't think complaining about late delivery of a missing feature that has proven to be quite condusive to focusing on the music equates to not being able to make good music. Maybe people who don't notice the sonic phase issues and missing creative options that the lack of ADC mandates need to raise their standards a bit.

Don't drink the Koolaid, people.

[kudzu]

Do u think that none of us know what an Atari is?...Performer?...Cubase?...We've always had more than one DAW at our disposal...(legal or otherwise). We all know the forums to check out...Apple have released an under-developed product and asked for payment!...its not right. When all this computer/internet bullshit started there were unwritten codes of conduct....remember?
Please, someone from Apple, tell us straight why this has happened?

[hmurchison]

But the Koolaid is soooo sweet

I'm not really apologizing for Apple per se but this is just the typical cycle we see for Apple products. They announce x product which has a bunch of features but then a brouhaha develops over the one missing feature. After being blown out of proportion Apple eventually updates the software to add the feature and things quiet down until the next upgrade where yet again the cycle of histrionic bleating begins because of (insert whizbang tech of the moment).

Full ADC will be coming and it'll work like it should be there are likely some issues that need to be worked out. Logic 7 has some nice features but I'd bet dollars to donuts that a majority of work was internal plumbing that will continue with small updates. Dropping OS9 support means Logic Pro will now start to use more recent technology better but the first rule of programming is to make it work...and then optimize it.

Ease of use is Apple's goal though so I cannot see them keeping LP7 users in the cold too much longer. I'm just glad to see LP7 as a card carrying OSX application. This bodes well for the future.

[jjdpro]

The problem with Logic (version 4-7) is that it's beholden to a very cool midi sequencer, but very poor audio-editing engine.

With that stated, it must be said that like Steinberg, Apple is going to have to Re-invent Logic Audio from the groud up. Remember, The Nuendo project was a MAJOR project slated for the SGI platform. They opted out of the SGI for fear(rightfuly) that the pro market was not into naitive unix. So, they roll up their sleeves and began re-writing the Nuendo Code for Windows.

I attend the winter namm2000 show and got first hand glance of Nuendo. of course I was cynical, being a Paris, Logic, PT user. How could an infant DAW product from a nortorius Apple based platform (Cubase) deliver on the Hype that Steinberg was spewing.. Well, when Isat down withthe rep, and took a 2 hour drive with Nuendo 1.0.. I was Shocked!! Then , I was shown the Right-Mouse click waltz.....Full, editing params, pick any plugin to burn in place. Need to transpose a track or parts of it...Whew!! This was version 1.0!!!

Now back to Logic. Apple is buying time with Logic 7. Their are hedging their bets on throwing every pLugin they can muster up to apease the Loyal logic fan base.. BUT, A change is a comin..

When that change finally occurs, Logic as we 've know it with be know more.

The next incarnation of Logic will have the slick sample accurate -audio/editing that we've come to love with todays DAW's..
Yes it will have PDC, and a very slick Mixer to boot...The concern is this: Can apple re-write Emagics -Groove midi engine to fit their New Baby. That's the hard part..

That's what Steinberg and Cakewwalk had to do..I think Apple can do it..But, it's gonna take some time.The Nuendo project took almost 5 years.. ??????????????
JJDPRO

[carmen]

i think thats the heart of the problem right there...cakewalk, steinberg, apple and a half dozen others all are pinned to duplicating eachother's work to have any hope of selling their product, otherwise people will bitch and moan (oh, but if i just CROSSGRADE, i'll get this and this..) so they are all wasting their time inventing the same wheel instead of doing something new. everyone is slightly ahead by about 5% in a particular area (for apple, its instrument GUI-candy factor) and 50% behind in another (for apple its audio, for steinberg its included plugin-suite, etc) i hope ProTux solves this problem once and for all..

[Exmun]

Originally posted by hmurchison
Apple doesn't owe people anything. They will deliver the features when ready. Make music people and stop trying to pretend you understand what a programmer must go through.

It's that attitude right there that forced me to finally switch from Logic. This is the free market not a religion. If a company, particularly a large, well-funded company wants my money they better earn it and deliver with some deliberate haste. Logic was one of the first programs with some ADC, but it's been almost two versions and they've still not finished it yet. ADC on the individual tracks was around since version 5. It was criminal for Logic to have proceeded to ver 6 without finishing the job.

As far as programs duplicating each other... I would agree. BUT, there are some features that are a logic progression to the idea of the DAW. From the beginning the DAW was intended to be the one device that you needed from recording to mixdown to final master. Native FX has remained a quality issue. This reality led to companies like Waves, Sonic Timeworks and the rest. This reality led to the various plugin formats like Direct X, VST, TDM, etc. Recently it's led to products like UAD and the TC cards as an alternative to the Digimonster. So all this talk about coding and what programmers go through is really just water under the bridge. It's the price you pay for playing the DAW game.

Delay compensation and features like it is not just stuff to have in the DAW big penis competition. This stuff is absolutely necessary to allow musicians to do their work wtih all the new tools that are available. And if you ask me, much of the reason why so many companies are having to rewrite code for what seems to us musicians as simple stuff is because of the whole proprietary/closed format of the DAW world. If the DAW companies would have just agreed to a single format a long time ago they wouldn't have to be shucking and jiving to get caught up. But hey, I just make music.

[R Tyck]

Originally posted by BrianT

If this were Steinberg instead of Apple, the users would be freaking out along the lines of "How come they have time to create Garage Band, etc, but can't add ADC to what is supposed to be their flagship product?"

...snip ...

IMHO, Apple gets a pass from it's customers on issues like this far too often, and it ends up helping no one.

With all due respect Brian- I think you are missing a crucial point in this analysis. Virtually every Logic user I know drank the KoolAid BEFORE Apple ever bought Emagic. Whatever slack is being cut by most users has nothing to do with Apple. Emagic had its own flavor of KoolAid, at least as powerful as Apple's, and that is where most of this sentiment comes from.

Personally, as a Logic user for over a decade, I wi****lly remember the days in which I would shoot opff a bug request to Dr. Lengling, and get an email a few days later with a patch. If anything most of my friends have become less tolerant of Emagic's cr@p since the Apple purchase.

R Tyck

[threesixty]

All these people who are willing to change their tools of trade every other release because of one feature or another can't be very serious about their trade. Isn't it more important that you know your software of choice inside out? How can that happen if you keep jumping from software to software because of a few features. Isn't that going to slow you down more than not having PDC? And aren't you going to feel dumb when your mix takes 6 hrs longer because you don't know the shortcuts in SX 3 that you knew in Logic? And aren't you going to feel even dumber when in a few months Apple releases an update for Logic with full PDC?


It seems to me that Apple correctly figured that the buss/aux PDC problem applies to people using DSP cards which are a small fraction of the total Logic user base. It would seem like a logical decision not to hold up a major release for a relatively small amount of people. For every one logic user that knows what latency is, their are probably 10 who don't, and don't need to. Thats a lot of money.

If your a hobbyist you can afford to jump from tool to tool because your not serious. If your trying to make money you need to stick to something you know well. Apple will never really lose it's user base over minor issues like PDC because too many people like me couldn't hack learning new shortcuts, and methods just to make the same music. What a complete waste of time that would be...


Patience is a virtue.

[Exmun]

Originally posted by threesixty
All these people who are willing to change their tools of trade every other release because of one feature or another can't be very serious about their trade. Isn't it more important that you know your software of choice inside out? How can that happen if you keep jumping from software to software because of a few features...

I'd been with Logic since version three. It was a difficult thing to do, but at version 5, I felt the issues with Logic came to a head and I had to find a company that cared a bit more about me than they appeared to care. I chose Samplitude and I'm going to stick with it. I, too, remember the days when I just sent Jeff Bonhoff (sp.) an email and he'd respond that day or by one day. There's just no price high enough to pay for service and customer care like that.

[nkf]

Originally posted by Exmun
It's that attitude right there that forced me to finally switch from Logic. This is the free market not a religion.

Excatly what I think in this respect. This (extremely) arrogant attitude is a showstopper for customers, developers and beta testers. I could tell a lot of stories (when I was beta testing Logic Audio for years) about the arrogance I had to face when describing bugs, some of them are still present, at least in the last Logic Pro 6 version I have. It's a concept of insulting users who don't admire the software as it is and treat them as exceptions. The same 'strategy' Apple drives with their customers. So I think they very well fit together. From an ergonomic viewpoint Logic developed to a mess. Over the years Logic developed for me from a welcomed tool to a workaround monster (heavily used from 1991 to 2003). Users got educated to accept this and that as the way it is - they often think it must be natures law or something.
To make a long story short - I changed completely my Logic based work places to Nuendo 2 and Cubase SX 2, including a change from Macs to PCs, and it was amazing how much more effective I can work now. I'm very glad being out of this Apple and Emagic treadmill.

[DAWgEAR]

Originally posted by hmurchison
Bitching and moaning about PDC is just an excuse for people who can't make good music. Excuses are like assholes..everyone gots one.

One could come back with a sarcastic comment like: People whose ears can't hear the latencies which need to be compensated and aren't bothered by them have no business being engineers. Nor musicians, for that matter.

But I won't.

[BrianT]

Originally posted by nkf
Excatly what I think in this respect. This (extremely) arrogant attitude is a showstopper for customers, developers and beta testers. I could tell a lot of stories (when I was beta testing Logic Audio for years) about the arrogance I had to face when describing bugs, some of them are still present,......

Oh, now I know nobody eeeeeeeeven wants me to go there. So I won't, other than to say"I've seen that movie, myself."

Here's what's so aggravating to me about the whole deal. Gerhard Lengeling is a stone cold genius. I have the utmost respect for his technical abilities, along with a number of other people who work(ed?) for Emagic. Michael Haydn also comes to mind as a high point there. Logic defined what Midi should look like in a DAW, and in many ways continues to do so. It's a shame to see such brilliance largely negated by corporate arrogance. And R Tyck's post above is exactly right. That corporate arrogance, and the end user's acceptance of it, preceded the buyout by Apple. As far as arrogance goes, in an automotive analogy, Emagic already had a Porsche 911 going. Apple just just turned it into a 911 Turbo. I'd call the combination, "The Grand Nexus of Arrogance". As in the old buyout move of, "You will now use Audio Units plugins (which don't exist yet, sorry) because we say that is what you will use. Period." Except for a 3rd party VST wrapper, Logic users would have been without many of the better plugin choices. Why?

I used Lengeling's C-Lab Creator, which preceded Notator, which preceded Logic, and I was in that software progression for over a decade. I knew Logic as well as a fulltime clinician. Ultimately, it was not the bugs or lack of features relative to "Brand X" that burned me out. Despite any of those issues, which are a factor in any DAW you choose regardless, it was the arrogant corporate mindset that ran me off. And I perceive in this thread that I'm far from alone in that sentiment.

It's not the bugs or the lack of features, really. It's the company's "we'll tell you what's good for you" attitude about the bugs and/or lack of features that's such a turn off to many people, I think.

It's a free market. Time will tell the story ultimately, won't it? I hope the corporate beast doesn't smother a good thing.

[BrianT]

Originally posted by threesixty

It seems to me that Apple correctly figured that the buss/aux PDC problem applies to people using DSP cards which are a small fraction of the total Logic user base.

SNIP

If your a hobbyist you can afford to jump from tool to tool because your not serious.

Who tend to be the people with the DSP cards? Hobbyists, or professionals?

If you guessed "professionals" you guessed right. The inability to support proper operation of UAD-1 or PowerCore years after they have been in widespread use is ridiculous for what is advertised as the "ultimate" professional tool. It's the hobbyists who don't need that. It's the professionals who do. So the whole thing is backwards, with professional Logic users being the very last people who make their living with this stuff to get proper support of non-Digi hardware DSP.

But the hobbyists have no need to switch, as Logic already supports all the features a hobbyist needs. It's pro level features like ADC for both bussing and plugins that are missing. So the guys most heavily invested are last in line here. That seems backwards to me.

[MattiMattMatt]

FWIW:

I just ordered Logic 7. Looks good to me.

As for apologists vs. holding Apple's feet to the fire, I guess I'm both: I add my voice to the moanfest for ADC bursting through every Logic forum on the net, and I'm confident that we'll get it soon enough. How could we not? (don't answer that!)

In the meantime, Logic is where I want to go, and there's plenty under the hood to keep me busy.

[threesixty]

Originally posted by BrianT
Who tend to be the people with the DSP cards? Hobbyists, or professionals?

If you guessed "professionals" you guessed right. The inability to support proper operation of UAD-1 or PowerCore years after they have been in widespread use is ridiculous for what is advertised as the "ultimate" professional tool. It's the hobbyists who don't need that. It's the professionals who do. So the whole thing is backwards, with professional Logic users being the very last people who make their living with this stuff to get proper support of non-Digi hardware DSP.

But the hobbyists have no need to switch, as Logic already supports all the features a hobbyist needs. It's pro level features like ADC for both bussing and plugins that are missing. So the guys most heavily invested are last in line here. That seems backwards to me.

woah.. hold on a minute.

What Apple describes as Pro is definitely not what a lot of users on this forum are into. All Pro means is that you make money of the software. It's not a methodology or a set way of thinking/using a product. In that respect, Apple's whole game plan is to bring everything you need to make money in music in one package. Thats why there's so many damn synths in the thing! Its trying to be a one stop solution, thats Apple's idea of pro on the Mac platform.

There are tons of people who still use Avid software for video and not Final Cut. Avid does things in a way that FCP doesn't. Some people are used to that and consider it more professional because that's what they know. FCP will never satisfy those "pro's" but I don't think Apple intended to do that. The same thing is going on with Logic.

I understand everyones frustration with Apple. You've all realized that the Apple way is not your way of thinking. You've figured out that Apple is being proactive and trying to dictate how you make music, and not the other way around (as Emagic/Steinberg are used to doing). You now need to decide whether you want to live with that philosophy or not.

Personally I cant remember any software or hardware box that i have used where I wasnt frustrated by something or other. And I had to work around it, find new ways of doing things. Thats why it pays to stay with a tool a long time and not jump around cos it's not doing things how you want it too. To me, thats what makes a pro. Regardless of all the obstacles your still gonna make that money!!

I just cant believe the amount of noise there is about one feature that will be there soon anyway..... Again, just be patient !!

[jjdpro]

For the record: It's not just one feature that's being discussed. I really feel that "Sample accurate editing" along with proper track (audio/midi) nudging, industry implementation of DSP cards..


These thing issues are of very very important and should be adressed...adressed ..
JJDPRO

[jjdpro]

think thats the heart of the problem right there...cakewalk, steinberg, apple and a half dozen others all are pinned to duplicating eachother's work to have any hope of selling their product, otherwise people will bitch and moan (oh, but if i just CROSSGRADE, i'll get this and this..) so they are all wasting their time inventing the same wheel instead of doing something new. everyone is slightly ahead by about 5% in a particular area (for apple, its instrument GUI-candy factor) and 50% behind in another (for apple its audio, for steinberg its included plugin-suite, etc) i hope ProTux solves this problem once and for all..

I don't see anything wrong with "duplicating" the others "great" feature. If it's a feature (tool) that will help us get the job done
more effectivly, then copy..

Also, you can forget about Digi being the fore-runner of New Technolgy in the DAW game. They are thee biggest "leeches" of Technolgy in the Market. They wait and let Emagic & Motu innovate a given feature, then 3 years later they find away to implement in Pro_Tools. AKA..Midi, Rewire..Directconnect..

JJDPRO

[timtoonz]

Well, I went ahead and ordered L7 - just started using it tonight - and I'm not that happy about it. I've been using this program since the very beginning "Creator/Notator" days as well, and this might just be the breaking point for me too.

It's not that the program isn't great in many ways. But it's a question of priorities. Sample accurate editing, delay compensation, support for multi-channel virtual instruments, etc. etc. are still missing. Plenty of annoying old bugs are still there. The interface is uglier and harder to read.

But hey! Look at the shiny new drum machine, sub-par amp simulator and digital "whoosh-noise" synth we've added! Why are they spending time on this stuff? Well, I guess it's their choice what market they want to pursue. And it's my choice which software company I should give my cash to.

I may stick with Logic for a while yet, but I'm also gonna start familiarising myself with CubaseSX or Nuendo... I haven't switched yet. But I can feel it coming real soon. Makes me sad and pissed off at the same time.

I agree with the post above - Apple and Emagic are brilliant companies. But with that brilliance comes arrogance, and I'm really really tired of it.tutt

[Exmun]

Originally posted by BrianT
Who tend to be the people with the DSP cards? Hobbyists, or professionals?

If you guessed "professionals" you guessed right. The inability to support proper operation of UAD-1 or PowerCore years after they have been in widespread use is ridiculous for what is advertised as the "ultimate" professional tool. It's the hobbyists who don't need that. It's the professionals who do. So the whole thing is backwards...

You can't say this loud enough or repeat this enough times. The UAD, Powercore support issues have been issues long overdue for years. This has been a need since version 5. I don't know a single person who would call himself a pro who would do an ITB mix with just Logic's FX. It's criminal for a company to insist that we accept this and not make this a major priority when they switch to another VERSION. It's not like this is a revision from 6.3 to 6.4 or anything. This is two freaking versions now and something so important has not yet been fixed... pure criminal.

Full ADC and sample accurate editing are not features in the big penis competition of duplicating/comparing features with the competition... Stuff like a ton of softsynths are part of the "noncritical" stuff IMO. And anytime a company's got time on its hands to add in a whole bunch of new softsynths in the next version, I'd expect that company to have time to fix the ADC, which has been an issue for years.

[BrianT]

One other thought.

I don't know anybody who has taken the time to really learn Logic who would ever take switching DAWs "casually". Not going to happen "casually" for a person with the time invested to master an admitedly complex app like Logic.

So what this thread shows, IMO, is that a number of commited Logic users have either already switched, or are currently seriously considering a switch based on concerns about what they see as a longterm pattern of company behaviour.

This is exactly the kind of feedback a company needs to not just accept, but actively solicit in order to be at it's best. This thread has been very civil, and I think the sentiments expressed by a number of current and former Logic users is like the doctor checking your pulse or respiriation rate during your physical exam. A wise man, or company, pays attention.

What do you want to bet that this same "Why is there no ADC yet and why doesn't my UAD/PowerCore work properly?" discussion took place when 6.X was released some time ago. And various people were saying "Be patient, it's coming".

One line of reasoning says that if you are ultimately going to switch because of whatever may concern you, sooner is better than later. Various other DAWs had the mentioned missing features a year ago or more, during the Logic 6.x timeframe, so it's already a year of doing without. How long is long enough? What if the same questions are hanging at the launch of Logic 8.x? Don't say it's impossible, since no one thought those questions would still be hanging at the launch of L7, but they are, and with a corporate gag order on the subject.

Hey, use what turns you on. I'm not questioning anyone's personal preference in a DAW. What I am questioning is blind devotion to any single product in this fickle industry. The app should serve you, not the other way around.