Delay Compensation in Pro Tools - FREE Video Tutorials!

[Zerosum]

You could compensate the audio tracks wrt each other using nudging, but as I say, DON'T DO IT! What if you decide to remove a plugin and now your total dly is shorter than it was.

Why not just duplicate the playlist and name it something like "snare track nudged"?
Then in the comments field or a notepad write down what track was nudged and by how much.
If you decide to later remove the plug-in that was applied to that insert causing the delay, then select the old playlist that was not nudged, and everything is back as it was before.

But before doing any nudging(or "when in doubt") SAVE.
Then "Save as" and name it something like "6.29.08 nudging"

If everything gets all out of whack, then return to the original saved session that had no nudging at all, or just return to the original playlist that wasn't nudged.

[d.dot]

Bingo! It just clicked in my tiny mind about the parallel aux and dry mix delays. Thanks very much for this Peeder.

I found this link about 002 hardware insert latencies and LE. The author has charted delay times in all buffer/sample rate settings. I'm starting my math from these and adding and subtracting as needed.

Pro Tools LE Latency Chart - Mixing with Analog Gear

With this new approach along with my newly Black Lion modded 002, I'm starting to feel good about using my outboard.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Zerosum

Why not just duplicate the playlist and name it something like "snare track nudged"?
Then in the comments field or a notepad write down what track was nudged and by how much.
If you decide to later remove the plug-in that was applied to that insert causing the delay, then select the old playlist that was not nudged, and everything is back as it was before.

that's exactly what i said.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by d.dot

Bingo! It just clicked in my tiny mind about the parallel aux and dry mix delays. Thanks very much for this Peeder.

I found this link about 002 hardware insert latencies and LE. The author has charted delay times in all buffer/sample rate settings. I'm starting my math from these and adding and subtracting as needed.

Pro Tools LE Latency Chart - Mixing with Analog Gear

With this new approach along with my newly Black Lion modded 002, I'm starting to feel good about using my outboard.

too bad the outboard loop latency will change on you, rendering the chart useless.

unless that's purely an M-Audio thing. if 002/003/Mbox doesn't change....

[steveWall]

This is friggin great! Thanks Peeder! All praise the nulling method!

[Bob Olhsson]

Quiet as it's kept, nudging gives you the lowest latency. All automagic latency compensation increases overall latency in addition to getting it wrong from time to time.

A very over-rated feature.

[espasonico]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Quiet as it's kept, nudging gives you the lowest latency. All automagic latency compensation increases overall latency in addition to getting it wrong from time to time.

A very over-rated feature.

That´s true. I don´t trust ADC ( or ALC ) and I prefer the time adjuster method mostly because if the client asks you for all the audio files consolidated for future use or archival purpose it´s a PITA to move everything again .

[redroom]

Autotime Adjuster by Mellowmuse Software

Should make all your lives easier

[peeder]

Originally Posted by redroom

Autotime Adjuster by Mellowmuse Software

Should make all your lives easier

Oh great! I will try it out. I mentioned several months ago that such a plugin was possible...glad someone made it!

Here's a mention of the idea from Feb 4...not sure if I had earlier postings on it:

free plugins..

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by redroom

Autotime Adjuster by Mellowmuse Software

Should make all your lives easier

Damn......if that thing really works, I could even see it being used in PTHD systems.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Damn......if that thing really works, I could even see it being used in PTHD systems.

Gary of Mellowmuse has now read the ping idea and he likes it so maybe he will be interested in implementing it.

His current ATA plugin as it stands does help automate one aspect, keeping your tracks in line. It can't be used with busses simultaneously, and it doesn't help with hardware inserts unless you know their actual total delay already somehow. But it does speed up readjusting the timeadjuster values on the audio tracks and for that it's a great help.

[theaero]

If I never record to disk and I always do bounce to disk do I need to worry about latency? WIll everything be in time?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by theaero

If I never record to disk and I always do bounce to disk do I need to worry about latency? WIll everything be in time?

Yes you still need to worry about it. RTD and BTD are sonically and functionally identical (other than possible 24bit dither differences which I've never bothered to root out, and some people say there are bugs in the automation system that show different results in BTD, but neither of these issues has ever been demonstrated to me at least).

Get your tracks aligned as I have described and use whatever method suits you (I think you will come to appreciate the RTD workflow).

[elambo]

Thanks for reminding me of how many headaches I've been able to steer clear of by ditching LE 4 years ago.

[Alécio Costa]

I´m with Bob.

Certain plug-ins just do not get properly compensated in PT HD, at least in my rig.
An example is Vintage Warmer II. I have tried the long delay setting and it still works spooky.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

I´m with Bob.

Certain plug-ins just do not get properly compensated in PT HD, at least in my rig.
An example is Vintage Warmer II. I have tried the long delay setting and it still works spooky.

for VW, it actually tells you the amount of sample delays on the interface itself.

mine says "49.3ms 2175smps"

you might wanna try nudging the region 2175 samples and see if that takes care of the problem or not.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by theblotted

for VW, it actually tells you the amount of sample delays on the interface itself.

mine says "49.3ms 2175smps"

you might wanna try nudging the region 2175 samples and see if that takes care of the problem or not.

You know another problem with using nudging in time to compensate for insert delay (NOT RECOMMENDED!) is that when you move a session from LE to HD, let's say, and suddenly delay compensation kicks in, with Time Adjuster you can just deactivate all the Time Adjusters (cmd-ctrl-click) and you're all set (other than for e.g. Vinatge Warmer, perhaps). With nudging, you'd be hosed beyond imagination. If you used playlists your automation would then be off. Etc.

Don't do it that way!

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by peeder

You know another problem with using nudging in time to compensate for insert delay (NOT RECOMMENDED!) is that when you move a session from LE to HD, let's say, and suddenly delay compensation kicks in, with Time Adjuster you can just deactivate all the Time Adjusters (cmd-ctrl-click) and you're all set (other than for e.g. Vinatge Warmer, perhaps). With nudging, you'd be hosed beyond imagination. If you used playlists your automation would then be off. Etc.

Don't do it that way!

like i said, i'm very thankful that you're providing this info to the masses, but still horses for courses peeder.

nudging is still a lot tighter than Delay Comp in HD, as Bob mentioned. and with proper note taking in comments field (if not Text file in the session folder) ALONG WITH original playlist; i still prefer the nudging method.

going from LE to HD, i would simply keep the already nudged regions with the delay comp off.
...that is, if i ever need to change to HD in the middle of a mix. by that point i'm prob remixing from scratch anyway using the original region locations. or bounce/freeze the regions with previous plugins.

the biggest no-no for me, you still haven't got a solution for outboard integration and varying converter latency with the Time-Adjuster. phase cancel all you want, you're gonna need nudging one of these days.

the "dly" field (and thereby, overall "book keeping") looks a lot cleaner when it corresponds with e.g., "n-64" in the comments field. IMO.

i'm done. we're gonna run circles again. may the slut be with you.

[studioland]

First for info mellowmuse only work for MAC not Windows ...


I have seen all your videos which are really really great ... MANY THANKS for posting those you should have free digidesign products forever just for doing this ... those guys can't post stuff like that themselves ... !


I understand I first have to compensate for individual tracks and send them all to a Dry Buss. What I don't is how do I compensate for different busses ?

For example let's say I have 4 Aux : Aux 1 has 60dly, Aux2 1200, Aux 3 500, Aux 4 40 ... Snare is sent to Aux 1and 4, guitar to Aux 1 and 3, Vcl to AUx 3 and 4 ... How do I compensate for that ?


Thanks for your kind help

[vdsp]

For automated latency adjustment you may take a look at FaderWorks.

Besides PDC, it offers multi-instance gain management with connected volume faders and solo/mute/bypass for "virtual" aux tracks.

The Latency/PDC settings are on an own page with a database-like PDC management.



AFAIK the Windows version wraps correctly with the fxpansion adapter. Wrapping the Mac version still has a few issues but is under development.

[studioland]

Thanks but waiting for the real answer, the free one ;)

[peeder]

Originally Posted by studioland

First for info mellowmuse only work for MAC not Windows ...


I have seen all your videos which are really really great ... MANY THANKS for posting those you should have free digidesign products forever just for doing this ... those guys can't post stuff like that themselves ... !


I understand I first have to compensate for individual tracks and send them all to a Dry Buss. What I don't is how do I compensate for different busses ?

For example let's say I have 4 Aux : Aux 1 has 60dly, Aux2 1200, Aux 3 500, Aux 4 40 ... Snare is sent to Aux 1and 4, guitar to Aux 1 and 3, Vcl to AUx 3 and 4 ... How do I compensate for that ?


Thanks for your kind help

Treat the busses (including the Dry bus) as another set of tracks to compensate wrt each other. So if the longest DLY among the busses is 1200, make all the busses have a dly of 1200...just like you did for the audio tracks (whose dly may have been 256, perhaps). Everything will line up perfectly then, no matter how many sends you make to whatever.

The only complication would be if an effect return bus sends to another effect return bus, and both have latency to compensate. Then you need to make a third layer of busses including a second Dry bus for the other busses. But that's a fairly rare situation.

[studioland]

I'm glad you mention this because I often send my reverb into a quarter note delay or something like this ....

So Okay I got it :
1/ I line up all my audio tracks to the longest delay and send them out to a Dry Buss
2/ I line up the Dry buss to the longest delay of my Aux
3/ If I have fx returning into other fx how do I set this up exactly ...

I mean 1/4 note delay is Aux1 and reverb is Aux 2. Aux 2 is out to my mains but has a send to my Aux 1 (delay)

A screen capture would be nice but a plain explanation will do ... I'm with you so far.

Do I send then all my auxes out to Dry Buss 2 and then line them up to the longest delay ? what do I do on Dry buss 2 ? Can I send it out to my mains ?

OR were you talking about my reverb out is going into another Aux IN ? which is as you said very rare and I usually don't do this ...

[peeder]

I show this in MDC03, the tracks are all compensated wrt each other, and the busses are all compensated wrt each other...I only show two of each, but it could be n of each.

You probably don't need to worry about anything beyond that...if you are sending a reverb into a delay (as well as sending dry things into each) or vice versa it might sound OK even if there is a bit of latency going on extra.

[soundrick]

Peeder,

again, thanks for doing this tutorial, it's really cool. I have used some delay comp methods in LE for a while now, with varied success. It is definitely tightening up now though!!

My buddy just got and M-Powered system, and while showing him the ropes I was trying to do some manual delay comp, and holy sh!t.....the delay window on the tracks isn't even CLOSE.

have you used M-Powered, and if so, noticed how off it is? I mean, we can figure it out eventually, but this doesn't seem right to me.

hmmm......

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by soundrick

Peeder,

again, thanks for doing this tutorial, it's really cool. I have used some delay comp methods in LE for a while now, with varied success. It is definitely tightening up now though!!

My buddy just got and M-Powered system, and while showing him the ropes I was trying to do some manual delay comp, and holy sh!t.....the delay window on the tracks isn't even CLOSE.

have you used M-Powered, and if so, noticed how off it is? I mean, we can figure it out eventually, but this doesn't seem right to me.

hmmm......

i'm not peeder,

but i think somewhere in this thread (or a similar one on GS) mentions that there're a few other plugs that "lie" about the dly samples. meaning, it won't indicate it in the dly field.

PSP stuff esp comes to mind. it'll say it on the actual GUI of the plug.



so to answer your question, depends on plugs, and gotta use your ears.

[peeder]

I've never used M-Powered. But blotted is right (in this case! ) some plugs lie about their latency. Hopefully the vids will show you what you need to know to find out.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by peeder

I've never used M-Powered. But blotted is right (in this case! )

[barryjohns]

I've used Mpowered in my Macbook for a few years for editing and playing around. I've never had an issue with it.

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by peeder

Gary of Mellowmuse has now read the ping idea and he likes it so maybe he will be interested in implementing it.

His current ATA plugin as it stands does help automate one aspect, keeping your tracks in line. It can't be used with busses simultaneously, and it doesn't help with hardware inserts unless you know their actual total delay already somehow. But it does speed up readjusting the timeadjuster values on the audio tracks and for that it's a great help.

I bought the Mellowmuse Plug, couldn't get it to work. In the window where you select Audio/AUS/Master, there is just a zero there and not ping button when you put one on the Master. Got the most recent VST to RTAS Adapter.

Frustraiting. Curious to see how it worked.