what's the difference in all the chipsets and what's a good one for a daw?

[sadworld]

theres seems to be way too many choices... i've decided to go with what has worked flawlessly for me in the past.... intel. but theres a million different intel motherboards and processors and sockets and bla bla bla.... whew! i just want a rock solid pc like i had before... just need more tracks nowadays so i must upgrade. what's the deal with chipsets? i see a lot of different ones. and how bout motherboards. can anyone recomend a good combination? (motherboard chipset)i'd like to stick with intel. but any suggestions welcome. thanks....

[manning1]

i'll jump in here. just a humble computer engr. designed more systems than i care to remember. i run amd with a sis chipset
but others prefer other chipsets. the best way to nail it is to take your multitrack software and see if it runs flwlessly on your intended pc purchase....whichever amd or intel.
if i were building a daw today i would get an amd 64 with 512 ram
and a couple of fast 7200 rpm hard drives. make sure the dealer /
seller enables dma on the hard drives. very important for audio. some forget.
the other issue is the sound card. make sure you question the manufacturer of the sound card which amd motherboard/chipset will work BEST before laying down the cash for the sound card.
some people are running dual opterons from amd ( i cant afford it) and reporting a real breakthrough in performance.
one amd 64 user reported to me a pretty interesting stat....
noise reducing a 3 minute audio file took 1.75 secs compared to the best ive seen on intel is around 15 secs.
maybe one thing to consider is probably an amd 64 price drop will occur sometime this year. these ARE pricey processors. another thing to consider is amd bartons are darn cheap and people report getting 80 plus tracks using them.
even a duron which is dirt cheap from amd is good for 40 tracks - who needs more ?
maybe another option is sometimes you see used duron systems for 150 bucks if you shop around.
hope this helps.
also look at the multitrack software i use sometimes. runs like a dream on my amd system. its called powertracks and does everything but eat. 48 tracks,24 bit if you want,great midi sequencer,notation,loads of audio and mastering fx etc etc.
all the best.

[Elsteve9]

Very small info, that I can offer, but here's what I know.

It had been reported numerous times before I assembled my DAW that, if using an AMD processor, that the Via chipset sucked, and the NVidia NForce2 chipset whupped it's butt.
So I followed that advice (as I were certainly going to use AMD, no question), and have been extremely happy with my decision.

My .02.


-Stephen

[sadworld]

how big a difference will the cache size make on performance... i notice there are pentiums with 512kb cache size then some (newer i would suspect) with the 1 meg cache size.... should i be worrying about that or is that a minute point? i tried to order last night and thought i had it all laid out for myself then the dude says the board i picked out will not work with the processor because of the mother board not supporting the larger cache size of the new processors... again, what is the significance of the cache size? thanks....

[bloodstone]

I just bought a Biostar barebones Socket A kit with AMD 2600+ CPU. It has Nvidia motherboard. 256 megs of ram. 120 gig Seagate EIDE HD. I'm running only for stereo to print mixes through an EMU 1212M pci card. I have had no problems. Software: Waves Gold bundle, Wavelab lite, and CD architect 5.0. I've heard you should avoid Soyo like the plague for audio. Windows XP Pro.

[manning1]

bloodstone. congrats. actually biostar is the mother board manufacturer and nvidia the chipset manufacturer.
im hearing from many folks these days that the nvidia chip set is a v good choice for amd.
i'm kinda happy - just scored with a rebate a cdrw (benq)
for 19 bucks cdn for one of my amd machines.
if you ever want to check out some free audio editors for further mucking around with fx check out audacity and the little known sound engine i cane across the latter is from some japanes programmer. just google for it.
a site you might find interesting re fx is noisevault.com.
check out the free SIR software sometime.

[excellrec]

I've heard pro tools has compatiblity issues with some chipsets... i.e.... under the list of incompatiblities on the digidesing site for the digi001 running windows xp it says it wont work with sis chipsets.. and lists via+amd or intel+intel as requirements...

[Blinddot]

This is a good read on the subject:

http://www.pcmus.com/clicknpops.htm


and this is IMHO the best motherboard for a DAW (intel 875P chipset) :

http://uk.asus.com/products/mb/socke...d/overview.htm


Yeah I know, AMDs are faster, but those motherboards aren´t stable enough for me. tutt


just my 2 cents

[bernieL0max]

Things I'd be looking for in chipset (& mobo etc) for a new PC for use as a DAW...

The 2 biggest factors relating to actual processing speed (aside from actual CPU speed) have to be;
Fast Front Side Bus (go 800MHz+)
Dual-Channel DDR (or DDR2) RAM

Note: When chosing RAM, check the CAS latency values... I always buy CAS2.0, make sure that your BIOS is setup correctly for your RAM timings, dont always trust the SPD settings. There can be a significant performance difference between CAS2.0 (fastest), CAS2.5 and CAS3.0 (slowest) RAM. Always buy name brand RAM with lifetime warranty - the cheap stuff simply isnt worth the headaches!

Next you need fast HDD I/O, so you'll be wanting SATA Raid 0 in the chipset (not on an addon chip) There's not enough bandwidth on the PCI bus to meet the full potential of SATA-150 RAID 0 arrays. When the controller is integrated in the chipset you are not restricted by the PCI bottleneck.

RAID0:
In case you are unaware, RAID0 stores data on 2 (or more) hard drives, it is able to read and write the data to both drives simultaneaously, so it effectively halves the time to read and write data to disk (in theory). Half the data gets written to 1 drive, half to the other. The obvious downside is that if 1 drive dies you lose all your info... but it's ok, because you've been doing regular backups, right?, RIGHT?!

Other considerations for the Motherboard (not directly related to the chipset);
Firewire
Gigabit LAN
Number of PCI slots
Try and find a Mobo without onboard sound; You'll be wanting to add a *real* soundcard anyway.


So, which chipset? A month or 2 ago I would have said build a new DAW machine around an Intel 875 chipset with ICH5-R, now I'd be tending to lean towards the Intel 925 chipset with ICH6-R. A cheaper alternative is the 915 chipset, again with the ICH6-R IO Hub.

If it's rock solid stability and reliability you're after (and you should be), look at the genuine intel branded Motherboards.

875:
The 875 Board of choice would have been the D875PBZ; with SATA RAID0 & no onboard sound. I am using this board in my current DAW machine, and an MSI Neo Board in my second machine with the same chipset & features.

925:
The D925XCV would be the 925 board of choice, but be aware that it requires DDR2 RAM, and that it only has 4 PCI slots (PCI Express being the new big thing). It also has onboard 8-Channel "High Definition" Audio - but I'm sure you can disable that in favour of a real soundcard A big plus on this board/chipset is 4 SATA ports. You can never have enough Hard Drives.

915:
The Intel D915PBL has ICH6-R, Dual-Channel DDR2, and 4 SATA RAID 0 as above, what it lacks is Gigabit LAN (it has 10/100), Firewire, Intel Extended 64-bit memory addressing and No support for Intel Extreme Edition CPU's. But for the $ saving I cannot find a good reason not to buy this board.


Anyway, hope i've said something useful...

[ProFool]

Originally posted by Elsteve9
Very small info, that I can offer, but here's what I know.

It had been reported numerous times before I assembled my DAW that, if using an AMD processor, that the Via chipset sucked, and the NVidia NForce2 chipset whupped it's butt.
So I followed that advice (as I were certainly going to use AMD, no question), and have been extremely happy with my decision.

My .02.


-Stephen

Stephen hello,

so did you finaly go the AMD way?
if yes what is your chipset and processor?
thanks

[bloodstone]

Originally posted by manning1
bloodstone. congrats. actually biostar is the mother board manufacturer and nvidia the chipset manufacturer.
im hearing from many folks these days that the nvidia chip set is a v good choice for amd.
i'm kinda happy - just scored with a rebate a cdrw (benq)
for 19 bucks cdn for one of my amd machines.
if you ever want to check out some free audio editors for further mucking around with fx check out audacity and the little known sound engine i cane across the latter is from some japanes programmer. just google for it.
a site you might find interesting re fx is noisevault.com.
check out the free SIR software sometime.

Quick update. I have been running that Nvidia Force 2 Chipset with the Biostar MC7ND motherboard for about 5 months and haven't had any problems. I'm using Windows XP Pro 512 mgs ram (added more RAM because I couldn't add multiple plugins to each track on long CD projects without some skipping). Have been successful with CD Architect, Wavelab 5.0, Cubasis, Wavelab Lite, Samplitude 7.22 demo, Waves plugins. I bought an AMD 2700+ CPU. Not the fastest rig in the world (or the slowest), but it suits me. I'm also using MX-View to control my MX-2424 and back up projects through the ethernet port on the motherboard. The barebones kit I bought from Tiger Direct is no longer available (obsolete already I guess, it happens quick) but it only cost me like $269 including the CPU, fan, tower w motherboard.

[ProFool]

Hi Bloodstone,

I wanted to ask if you have buffersize under runs but since you don't use PT, i would say nevermind.

I still seem to have DAE troubleshoots when recording or playing back 1 track or 32 tracks..

my setup is almost similar, I know not the fastest around but sure has plenty of horsepower in it.

NF7_S/NF7 (NViDIA-NFORCE2)
AMD Athlon xp 2600+ 2.08ghz
2x 256 = 512 ddr 333 and one slot free for another 512mb
xp pro service pack 1

But the DAE is driving me totaly mad, trouble goes like this.
when playing back like i said 1 or 32 tracks it says icrease H/B size.
when finaly set to the max it runs stable for about a minute and then again it says increase, 5 seconds later it says decrease and so on and on.
so basicly it constantly says increase & decrease untill its driving me insane and i call it a day.
I did every possible tweak, and used every tip given in other threads but stil having the same stuff going on.
3 clean instals etc, the only thing i could think of is that im still using pt5.3 and its conflicting with the newer windows update or so.
first i thought i could be NViDIA-
NFORCE2 but now im not sure about that.

tips or suggestions are welcom, thanks

[Hammer v2]

Here's the whole chipset thing in a nutshell....

AMD is just as stable as intel. There is no difference anymore with modern chipsets and platforms.

Intel + Intel chipset always works...except some people are reportedly having some minor problems with the new 9 series. This will be sorted soon. (Give it 2 months)

AMD + VIA is all good these days. VIA have really gotten their
S@!T together and are making great chipsets. Nvidia form the Nforce 2 Up are great too.

AMD64 + either VIA or NVIDIA rock. AMD64 is by a COUNTRY MILE the PC audio platform of choice ATM.

Despite all of this CHECK your software's and sound card's requirements B4 buying anything!!!

Good luck!
H.

[aussie_techie]

well there are alot of comments on this topic
number 1 check audio hardware and software manufacturer pages to check for any known issies (but only Digidesign propley tests systems) - what audio hardware/software do you plan to use

you said you wanted to stick with intel so i repley just to that

make sure you have an intell chipset that can make of break it NEVER look at SiS they are total crap with an intel cpu and questionable at best on AMD
do not go with the 9xx series chipsets there are still to many proplems
get an 865 or 875 p/pe they are extreamly stable (be carefull of the 865g - intergrated graphics is never good)
i went for the Intel 865PERLL mobo SATA & IEEE1394 onboard - so no extra cards were needed
and i always find an all intel board is more stable than 3rrd party board with an intel chipset

800MHz FSB duel channel DDR RAM and the option of Hyper Threading

for a P4 CPU get a northwood core (512KB cache) rather than the Prescott (1MB cache) - they perform better and run much cooler not to mention they are cheeper

also very important make sure you get a good PSU

[bloodstone]

Originally posted by ProFool
Hi Bloodstone,

I wanted to ask if you have buffersize under runs but since you don't use PT, i would say nevermind.

I still seem to have DAE troubleshoots when recording or playing back 1 track or 32 tracks..

my setup is almost similar, I know not the fastest around but sure has plenty of horsepower in it.

NF7_S/NF7 (NViDIA-NFORCE2)
AMD Athlon xp 2600+ 2.08ghz
2x 256 = 512 ddr 333 and one slot free for another 512mb
xp pro service pack 1

But the DAE is driving me totaly mad, trouble goes like this.
when playing back like i said 1 or 32 tracks it says icrease H/B size.
when finaly set to the max it runs stable for about a minute and then again it says increase, 5 seconds later it says decrease and so on and on.
so basicly it constantly says increase & decrease untill its driving me insane and i call it a day.
I did every possible tweak, and used every tip given in other threads but stil having the same stuff going on.
3 clean instals etc, the only thing i could think of is that im still using pt5.3 and its conflicting with the newer windows update or so.
first i thought i could be NViDIA-
NFORCE2 but now im not sure about that.

tips or suggestions are welcom, thanks

I'm no PC geek, but one difference is I have DDR PC3200 RAM. Isn't that different than what you have, and supposedly "faster"? I've never had buffer overrun problems ever. Have you done all the things they recommend at http://www.musicxp.net/ ? I found the tuning tips to be very useful. I also use NTFS, not FAT 32. Don't know if that makes a difference. Good luck.

[ProFool]

Originally posted by bloodstone
I'm no PC geek, but one difference is I have DDR PC3200 RAM. Isn't that different than what you have, and supposedly "faster"? I've never had buffer overrun problems ever. Have you done all the things they recommend at http://www.musicxp.net/ ? I found the tuning tips to be very useful. I also use NTFS, not FAT 32. Don't know if that makes a difference. Good luck.

Thanks Bloodstone,
yes i did al the tweaks from musicxp net and from viper.com + al the other tweaks i found on the net etc.
Also using NTFS at 64kb cluster size wich was recomended on the Tascam website.
The RAM you have is faster yes, but im noticing i might have a broke Ram.
In the system tab it shows that there is 512ram installed but if use the sisandra bechmark tool it only shows 511.
so maybe thats the problem, ill check it out with removing and switching one of them and see wich one only give's 255ram.
if its like that ill have it replaced it seems to have a lifetime warranty.

see you later

[ProFool]

update

my ram's seem to be ok
something else i found out while taking them out is that they are ddr pc 3200rams so they are the same Bloodstone.
also i noticed that there were installed like this

a0 emty
a1 256
a2 256

so i changed the last to a0 and see how it goes now, i sure ordered 512 more and a new hardrive of 10000rpm.

grtz

[Absolute]

You know what I find just incredible

That in post after post people kept swearing how great Intel was for DAW

Where have you people been......living in a cave? There is simply no contest between AMD 64, or better, with its intergrated memory controller, and Intel.

Its not even a debate

[Elsteve9]

No doubt. I'm using Athlons, waiting for prices to drop a bit on Athlon64's, and PCI XPress to get settled out...Also trying to figure out what to do about UAD-1 when PCIXpress is here...Maybe the thing to do is buy a weird interim motherboard.
Oh. And NVidia doesn't seem to make a chipset for Dual Athlon64's.


-Stephen

[TLS]

I recently bought an AMD Socket 939 3500+ based system.

Unfortunately I was forced to go with a Gigabyte K8NSNXP-939 board as they had no MSI in the country at the time.

What a nightmare! After replacing the Gigabyte board 3 times due to 3 separate issues (first one had a whine with the onboard power filter, second one just died one day, 3rd one had 6 faulty USB ports), I finally manged to get my money back and replaced with an MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum and it has been running flawlessly ever since.

I would personally never go with Gigabyte boards again but I've had no problems with this MSI or my previous MSI based system.

[manning1]

the area i find interesting are the new amd 64 notebooks coming to market. like the acer aspire 1520 and many others.
http://www.techbuilder.org/article.htm?ArticleID=51248
as an example.
this type of product now gives folks a very powerfull
mobile recording alternative due to the processing power
of the amd 64. still early days...but within a year i expect
the amd 64 in notebooks will be very popular with daw users who want a mobile solution. also due to the amd architecture
and its low latency for audio. the question will be how seamlessly the outboard firewire sound solutions will interface.
if they work well....eg...RME and others. this could be a powerfull
popular recording solution compared to a desktop.