No Massey Audio Unit plugins

[buschfsu]

High-end plug-ins for Pro Tools

project terminated

[Chevron]

Bollocks - let's get a petition going!!!

[Rufuss Sewell]

I don't think petitions are going to work. I'm pretty sure he knows there's a huge demand. He said he'll explain tomorrow. I'll hold off judgement for the explanation.

I'm going to be naive and guess that this is a last minute hoax. He's pulling our leg. The AUs will be released tomorrow and this is just to get everybody all hot and bothered about the plug ins. Hopefully not before everyone dishes out their Massey savings account on Sonnox.

[JPeters86]

Damnit... I hope it's a hoax. Otherwise it's a really lame trick!

[matt82aust]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. Dissapointing outcome, especially for yourself i am sure. best of luck and looking forward to your new work!

[jamwerks]

Maybe just the heat of the moment, but this seems like a major scandal. This info should get transfered to the top developers at Logic!

[hobson]

Steve,

so sorry to read about this... though it seems as though i've read similar grumblings from gaming developers too (source: MacRumors) - Apple approaches them (in this case) and declares a definite interest in furthering Mac gaming - but when it gets down to the nitty-gritty (i.e. sharing of development tools), Apple seems(?) unwilling and bails or just goes MIA... leaving partners miffed.

i'm a Mac guy through and through, but this makes me blush with embarrassment.

Let's hope for a brighter future for their development kits and general approach to those who are developers & supporters... sad... i know there were many (re: MANY) people anxiously awaiting this for Logic.

________________________
David

[mahasandi]

wow iam sorry Steve that's frustrating as hell.
Can't we raise this issue with apple as a group ?
your not alone Justin who develops Reaper
has also been frustrated with apple OSx development.

[peeder]

OK boyz it's our turn. Who do we hang from a lamp-post at Apple?



Also, if anyone knows press contacts, shareholder contacts, etc. please set those in motion. This is a significant news story...it should be picked up on at least the blogs/rumor sites, ought to be run in any Mac or Audio trade weeklies, etc. Heads really ought to roll and if this is a developer's experience...a SUPERSTAR developer's experience...then all Logic users are suffering.

As Mr. Massey said,

Apple does not inspire any confidence in me that building a business based on their platform would be a prudent decision for me, or you, in the long-term.

[nagal]

Sounds like 90% of the different APIs/SDKs I have worked with as a software developer over the years and Apple seems no different in this respect. Still sucks as I would have loved to see the Massey stuff as AUs.

[dannygold]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

Maybe just the heat of the moment, but this seems like a major scandal. This info should get transfered to the top developers at Logic!

I'm disappointed too, but "major scandal"? Really, try to have some perspective. As popular as Massey stuff is with a certain group of Pro Tools users it's not even a blip on Apple's radar that it's not going to be ported to AU.

What about VST, is that viable? Then it can be used via a wrapper. Or MAS still exists although of course that'd only help DP users. Of course, Massey is probably a bit gun shy about non digi stuff at this point. Wouldn't blame him.

[lovespirals]

this is scary because i, like many others, left protools because of dissatisfaction with digidesign's products. apple now has a superior product but it's looking like this may soon be threatened by their own indifference to pro audio. i can't imagine where this is going; will i have to switch back to protools again in a few years?

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by dannygold

I'm disappointed too, but "major scandal"? Really, try to have some perspective. As popular as Massey stuff is with a certain group of Pro Tools users it's not even a blip on Apple's radar that it's not going to be ported to AU.

What about VST, is that viable? Then it can be used via a wrapper. Or MAS still exists although of course that'd only help DP users. Of course, Massey is probably a bit gun shy about non digi stuff at this point. Wouldn't blame him.

I agree. Time to embrace VST. THere are lots of us that have been on the outside looking in on this little exclusive club that are prepared to support them

[peeder]

Originally Posted by dannygold

I'm disappointed too, but "major scandal"? Really, try to have some perspective. As popular as Massey stuff is with a certain group of Pro Tools users it's not even a blip on Apple's radar that it's not going to be ported to AU.

Since Pro Tools is the standard and Massey is the shooting star of PT plugins (no one questions this) this is more than enough for the head of Apple's whole pro apps division to be on the phone right now to Mr. Massey promising him whatever he wants to make this happen. The cellphone number of the Logic tech lead, etc.

This goes across all Apple developer relations. This is not a minor gripe. That template code crashes is a huge black eye on their whole effort.

[Bierce85]

Originally Posted by lovespirals

this is scary because i, like many others, left protools because of dissatisfaction with digidesign's products. apple now has a superior product but it's looking like this may soon be threatened by their own indifference to pro audio. i can't imagine where this is going; will i have to switch back to protools again in a few years?

This is the same thought I've been having. Apple has an opportunity now more than ever to take over at least a large part of the pro studio market and they don't seem to care. If they put enough effort into Logic they could have it running flawlessly on their computers and they could design a control surface that would make digi's icon look crude and outdated.

I guess it doesn't matter much when you've got 18 billion in the bank from selling iphones and macbooks.

[sysexguy]

One might expect a certain hardware manufacturer (who posts here regularly) and has spend great effort$ in coop-ing with apple all sorts of ads and marketing as a pro alternative would have a vested interest in getting this matter the attention it deserves.

Andy

[drycounty]

Firstoff, I'm REALLY disappointed that these aren't coming out. I was really excited by the possibility of trying out that compressor!

I've already posted a bunch of this over at the Tape Op boards, so I'll slightly paraphrase what I said there...

Stephen, you have to realize that Apple is a secluded, secretive company, and it's what has made them so successful. You have to work around them and whatever issues they may have, certainly not the other way around.

I can't believe you actually raised a stink about the price of the software and inability to get a copy for free. Any developer worth their own weight doesn't concern themselves over the cost of the software they are developing for. You want to develop for the platform? Pay for the software. If you are a half decent developer, you'll recoup that in no time, especially as there were so many of us looking forward to trying these out and eventually buying them. Apple has it's own "Developers Connection" platform (ADC) and the price of admission is EXPENSIVE, especially if you are a small shop. I know many people who develop software and it's no cakewalk but it IS WORTH IT IN THE END. Just think of who you'd be developing for -- people who are passionate about their computers, people who prize a great design, interface and sound.

Hope I don't get flamed for all of this, as I'm certain I would really be a big fan if these ever came out, but really -- doing anything for Apple is HARD WORK but the rewards are worth their weight in gold. It's a shame you decided not to find out.

[peeder]

When I developed Mac software I was not only often getting free software I was getting free machines. And Apple DTS would bend over backwards for me.

If Apple wants to be in the Pro audio market, they have to treat their 3rd party developers like gods. Dave Winer kicked off his pundit/blogger career writing "Platform is a Chinese Household" back in the mid-90's which I recommend to anyone who wants some perspective on this. And the things that brought that article about weren't as bad as what this sounds like. Then you had a sick company with (mostly) responsive developer staff. Now you have a healthy company and they act like this?

Digidesign is laughing its sides off right now...I can hear it all the way up the highway.

[drycounty]

When did you develop for Apple? What company did you work for, where machines were given to you from Apple? Are they hiring?

Was this before 98 or 99?

[peeder]

I contracted directly with Apple in the mid-90's, and continued Mac development for 3rd parties (and yes, sometimes on free machines they had received from Apple as incentive) till the end of the old Mac OS era, around 2000. They were still trying to win the battle for 3rd party support from M$ at the time. I'm out of it now, but I would still think the Pro Apps division ("Creative Content" they called it then) is relevant to them. For instance, what if a major publisher of Photoshop plugins only shipped on Windows? I would think Steve Jobs himself would fire at will just searching for the arsehole responsible for not winning their support. At least, that's how I remember things.

I would think a lot of this has to do with the Germany thing...there's no coordination and the Germans don't own the AU standard, but they own the app...and they are struggling just to get the basic app running...and there's no one in charge or paying attention in Cupertino...

[jeangodard]

Originally Posted by drycounty

When did you develop for Apple? What company did you work for, where machines were given to you from Apple? Are they hiring?

Was this before 98 or 99?

I worked for a very small (less than 30 employees) 3rd party Apple software company. They spent huge sums of money on various Mac computers.

As much as I support Steve Massey in his efforts to port his product, I don't think he has any business recommending what platform we should or should not support.

[Gladstone]

I personally would love to see these plugins in VST, more DAW's support that format I believe. I'm sorry AU didn't work out though. :(

[Dubster]

What's sad is, if you go to the fxpansion message boards, you can find a diatribe from one of the more frustrated fxpansion coders that echos a lot of the same issues. Luckily, aside from BFD 2, most of the AU plugs I rely on day to day are working alright, but I have to say, these type of things along with the choice to switch to Agere firewire chipsets in the MB/MBP/iMacs and the problem Apple seems to have maintaining a stable AppleFWAudio driver are making me think twice about continueing with Apple when it comes time to upgrade my system.

[panda21]

I think part of the problem is that apple arent afraid to add huge changes to the os and its api's at quite a fast pace. The documentation, whilst it seems quite comprehensive at first, can be a bit sketchy and incoherent, and doesnt always keep up with whats going on under the bonnet.

Possibly subscribing to the adc would help get more help, but i'm not sure.

I do really like the fact that the apple development tools are all free though, if you were developing for windows you would most likely need to buy some overpriced bloated microsoft visual studio junk that will bring you more pain than you can possibly imagine.

[sound and form]

Hello Dry Country,

Thanks for the feedback, but you have misunderstood my words. I wasn't entirely clear.

The discounted copy of Logic was a secondary, or tertiary, concern.

I initially tried to get in touch with Apple about (quoting myself) "the existence of a developer program for Logic" -- the words "developer program" meaning a "process or procedure for supporting developers". Specifically, this means getting a hold of "debug builds" of Logic that include "asserts" and "symbols" and other checks that can be incredibly informative to a developer when the application fails or crashes from your own code.

Yes, I am well aware they have the ADC. But, if you go to the website, you will notice there's absolutely no information specifically related to developing for Logic! That is what I was seeking from the Apple reps.

Thanks for the feedback,
Steve

P.S. This will be my last post on the subject, altogether, as it can only go downhill from here.

[jeangodard]

Steve's post is circulating around various forums It's on Apple's Logic Pro support site and I've seen it on another Logic Pro site. I hope we get to the bottom of this.

If folks want to register at the Apple site, maybe we can help sound an alarm.

[peeder]

I would think, Mr. Massey, that someone has read all this and you will be getting an email with debug builds to follow etc. You are worth at least a dozen beta testers just in providing debug feedback.

And that's not even touching how much you are worth to Logic as an app (and the entire AU platform, which includes Garageband).

Let us know if you hear from them...I would be stunned if they let your three months of work...much of it for their benefit...go to waste.

In the meantime, I can predict that new AU developer recruitment has just come to a complete halt.

[drycounty]

Well, while the rest of the world clearly dissolves over this I'm just going to shut down the browser and get back to some Logic work.

[n8tron]

any logic users, I would highly suggest asking for better 3rd party developer support in the feedback section found here:

Apple - Logic Pro - Feedback

whether or not Steven gets help this will still affect us as who knows how many plugin developers are being stifled from lack of support from apple.

[jeangodard]

Originally Posted by drycounty

Well, while the rest of the world clearly dissolves over this I'm just going to shut down the browser and get back to some Logic work.

Not helpful.