No Massey Audio Unit plugins

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by KevinS

Amen!!!

Exactamundo

Everyone starts shouting that they shouldn't have done this or they should do this.
I would have loved the plugs. Can't have them. Big shame. I told Apple this.
I'm off to the studio to work and don't feel in any way worse about logic 8 though.
It has been working fine (apart from one crash... ) and I am happy with the plug ins I do have. It would have been a bonus, as opposed to something that has been taken away from me!

Maybe my being a bit mellow about it is that I still use hardware for critical things anyway...

[gregohb]

I don't doubt that Apple and their SDK can be the villains, but there are many dozens of other plugins working quite successfully in AU format - NI, Uaudio, Sony, Waves, Soundtoys, RogerNichols, Melodyne, Antares, Ohmforce, etc etc etc.

From doing some development myself, I know it can be frustrating to start it up. However, I also know that there are people who know the intricacies. I would suggest he contract to someone who really has a track record of making AU's, or partner with another company like Gmedia/Ohmforce, or Waves (as SSL and API did), or Bombfactory (as BBE has done), or UAudio (as SPL, Neve, and Roland have done). Its better to get half of a dollar rather than none of it.

Otherwise, he loses millions of potential users, and is squandering the name recognition that can mean success.

In short, this is not a project to try to learn on the job, find people who know how to do it, and get it done.

[8th_note]

Sorry to go a little off topic here, but has Mr. Massey ever stated the reason he isn't writing his plugins for VST or DX? It just doesn't make sense to me but there must be a good reason. I am one of the many people who would buy his stuff it were available for my platform and I would think there is a vastly larger market for VST than for AU. I've wondered about this for some time.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by 8th_note

Sorry to go a little off topic here, but has Mr. Massey ever stated the reason he isn't writing his plugins for VST or DX? It just doesn't make sense to me but there must be a good reason. I am one of the many people who would buy his stuff it were available for my platform and I would think there is a vastly larger market for VST than for AU. I've wondered about this for some time.

He's always prided himself on support, and it may be that he actually doesn't want a "vastly larger market" because he won't be able to provide the level of customer service that he feels is part of his brand.

This may also be a point to those who are saying "well all these other companies have shipped on AU..." Maybe he has uncovered bugs in Logic or AU that are unacceptable to him that the other companies have just said isn't their fault and shipped anyway. Maybe his fanbase is motivated by this stronger level of committment and he doesn't want to compromise on that.

I don't actually know but I wouldn't be surprised.

[dirtboy]

Mr. Massey, I'm not going to kiss your a** on this one since I have plenty of 3rd party AU plugs that do the job quite well. Just asking you to reconsider and maybe get some help from those who have gone before you in order to get your excellent plugs working in Logic. I strongly believe you will benefit from it in the end, including us end users of course. Just asking.......

[giraffe]

wow, these personal attacks have to go, what is wrong with you people?

i assure you, he doesn't have to do any thing he doesn't want to, for any reason he chooses. welcome to the free market.


massey is in no way obligated to go out of his own way to make an au version which would benefit apple probably almost as much as it would him.
the bad press is free, go apple.


(p.s. long time and current apple user, was waiting for massey au's to change to logic from p.t. oops, suck it apple.)

[statikcat]

Interesting that countless smaller companies develope AU with no major issues

[GSF]

You mean to say that you PERSONALLY haven't heard of any issues; that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

And how many of these small companies you mention port their code from tdm to AU?

[slaves666]

I too would like a comment on VST support.

[Geert van den Berg]

I didn't stick this thread to the top of the forum so people could nag and not for personal attacks either. That's for info. Discussion is fine, speculation is fine too, but it's still speculation.

Steve has given his reasons.

Like someone else said, there's plenty other plugins to work with.

[mahasandi]

Steve Massey has been fantastic for the
daw using community. He is also very
nice guy with an excellent buisness model
and fantastic customer support.
and I am sure he will do whatever he
wishes and do it with class and style.
Thanks for the effort on au Steve
sorry it didn't work out.

Nick

[deuc647]

Mr. Massey, i had the pleasure of using ur plugins in PTHD, i loved the L2007 and comp , with all that being said, screw AU and go VST, im sure people will embrace u in that community, shyt i know i will.

[ignatius]

Originally Posted by deuc647

Mr. Massey, i had the pleasure of using ur plugins in PTHD, i loved the L2007 and comp , with all that being said, screw AU and go VST, im sure people will embrace u in that community, shyt i know i will.

VST3 is apparently not any fun for developers. see KVR for details.

i'm sure AU is no pizza party but the dozens of AU plug ins i have work just fine so it seems some people can get it done w/o unusual amounts of hassle.

[drBill]

Writing a plug-in is not just about assembling some code and putting it out. There's tons of VST, AU and even TDM plug-ins that aren't worth the time to install them. The reason Massey's plug-ins have been so universally accepted is because the SOUND great. And I'm sure that he wants whatever he does to SOUND great. Apple and him didn't get on so well together. So what? I guess that's just how it goes.

I'm a competent keyboard musician in a lot of styles, but if you ask me to do rap or play Lizst, I'm gonna choke soooooooooo bad. Steve writes killer TDM plugs. Maybe he just doesn't take well to AU. Maybe he just hates working within the constraints that it puts him under. Who wants to go to work every day dreading what you have to do? No one. Whatever the reason, it's certainly a loss to Logic users, but please, cut the guy a break.

The audio world in general is better because of what he does - whether or not they personally use his plugs or not.

THANKS STEVE!!!!!!!!!! Keep on keepin on!!

bp

[ignatius]

Originally Posted by drBill

Maybe he just hates working within the constraints that it puts him under.

i read an interview in tapeop a while back w/a developer and he described making TDM plugins being like "building a ship in a bottle". so, you mean those kinds of constraints?

Originally Posted by drBill

Who wants to go to work every day dreading what you have to do? No one. Whatever the reason, it's certainly a loss to Logic users, but please, cut the guy a break.

i agree w/you. i've heard so much about the plugs that i was interested in checking them out and it's a bummer they aren't going to be available as AU's but whatever.. there's lot's of good plugs out there that do what they do really well and are available for AU.

what it comes down to is it's his business/time/money/investment etc and if it's too much a PITA to deal with all the hoops you have to jump through to make AU versions then so be it.. because as you say no one wants to go to work everyday dreading it.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by drBill

Steve writes killer TDM plugs. Maybe he just doesn't take well to AU.

I read on his personal homepage that he's a former employee of Digidesign, and in his profile on this board, Pro Tools in the only 'key gear' that's listed. Of course he has every right not to make any AU at all, and I agree that personal attacks on him doesn't belong anywhere.

I don't see most of the posts here as attacks, maybe they're more of a defense for Apple - which probably was triggered by an early post in this thread where it was stated that "Apple Sucks."

Attacks are normally nothing more than a waste of time, and normally only trigger more attacks.

Either Apple and S.M. sorts this out, or they don't. I hope they do, because it looks like it would be useful for both (and the many AU users) if they did. If they don't, it's not the end of the world - people will buy something else, other developers may make something similar to the Massey plugins, if there's a market/need for such products, and maybe new products even will be ported ower to TDM later - this happened with AltiVerb, among others.

I remember reading that the main guy behind Acid apparently said that there would never be Acid for Mac, and a few years later, he worked for Apple implementing Acid technology in Logic 7 (audio tracks that are recorded in Logic will follow tempo changes in the song if the changes are entered after the recording).

S.M. wrote "TDM plugins will probably stay higher priced until the platform swiftly dies out -- when native fully matches it slightly more adventageous feature set" in another thread not long ago, and recognizes that the TDM user base is 'perhaps dwindling' already. So... who knows, maybe Massey soon will receive a job offer from Apple? They 'bought' Kai (behind Kai's Power Tools for Photoshop), they bought Final Cut Pro, they bought the Emagic team and Logic, the Studio Vision main guy and lots of other stuff, so why not Massey Plugins Inc.?

[dirtboy]

Originally Posted by giraffe

wow, these personal attacks have to go, what is wrong with you people?

i assure you, he doesn't have to do any thing he doesn't want to, for any reason he chooses. welcome to the free market.


massey is in no way obligated to go out of his own way to make an au version which would benefit apple probably almost as much as it would him.
the bad press is free, go apple.


(p.s. long time and current apple user, was waiting for massey au's to change to logic from p.t. oops, suck it apple.)

Just for the record, this was NOT meant as a personal attack against Mr. Massey. I am simply stating that there are plenty of smaller 3rd party coders (Audio Damage anyone?) who seem to do just fine with the AU standard. I was simply asking him to reconsider because it CAN be done, and his plugs are really good. If Apple has offended him, then so be it..... But please, begging him to do so is pointless.

[gregohb]

Originally Posted by drBill

Writing a plug-in is not just about assembling some code and putting it out. There's tons of VST, AU and even TDM plug-ins that aren't worth the time to install them. The reason Massey's plug-ins have been so universally accepted is because the SOUND great. And I'm sure that he wants whatever he does to SOUND great. Apple and him didn't get on so well together. So what? I guess that's just how it goes.

I'm a competent keyboard musician in a lot of styles, but if you ask me to do rap or play Lizst, I'm gonna choke soooooooooo bad. Steve writes killer TDM plugs. Maybe he just doesn't take well to AU. Maybe he just hates working within the constraints that it puts him under. Who wants to go to work every day dreading what you have to do? No one. Whatever the reason, it's certainly a loss to Logic users, but please, cut the guy a break.

if his plugs sound good, its because he has developed the mathematics and programming to give that sound - which can theoretically be implemented in any plugin format. So this whole issue is that he doesn't feel comfortable learning a new system which he is unfamiliar and feels Apple is not helpful.

I woiuld have to say that Apple must be pretty stupid not to call him immediately with the offer of some free personalized help.

He could also license his mathematics to Ohmforce, NI, Waves or others to put out his plugs under his name. BBE has a total of three different companies license their process and put them into plugins.

[David-Morpheus]

the only problem is in wrong communication. it was a stupid step to announce the development of AU plugs if he wasn't 1000% sure he's gona make it at that time. now he made that announcement and suddelny a lot of people (including myself) who had experience with massey plugs but changed platforms were ON FIRE.

he should simply start to do the AU versions without any public notice. If he would make it just announce "hi there AU versions ready to download".
if not - nothing happens because nobody knew the AUs were under development.

I am a software developer and DBA and somehow I simply don't buy the whole thing - with no offense to mr massey. but once you've got the algos coded the rest of it is just customization and porting stuff. there are tons of AU plugs available - if URS plugs work as AU and do not crash massey plugins will work too. I belive it's not easy but it can be done.

[Schmeckitup]

I'd love to hear a discussion between Massey and Audio Damage (AU - Never! vs PT - Never!). Perhaps they could port each other's delightful plugs....

[Matt Fudge]

Originally Posted by Schmeckitup

I'd love to hear a discussion between Massey and Audio Damage (AU - Never! vs PT - Never!). Perhaps they could port each other's delightful plugs....

Somehow I doubt that idea would fly with Audio Damage guys ...
studionebula.com » I’m Not the Only Developer That Hates AudioUnits

[peeder]

Sounds like they may have lost key personnel or lost motivation from those personnel when emagic was bought out by Apple. Garageband became the high-volume app, garageband is a part of ILife and ships to 10M seats, and therefore it has to work everywhere, and all QA and the better developers have to sweat bullets on that. Logic has become a side hobby and Audio Units is merely a "control our own destiny" thing.

[nativeaudio]

Garage Band is basically a stripped down version of Logic, developed by the same people: they basically removed many functions from Logic and changed the user interface. Logic is a much more complex application, is used by professionals, and therefore requires a lot more developer time.

[sound and form]

I've deleted my original message, as we've probably seen enough flames here.

I also had a good chat today with the product manager for Logic. He seems genuinely concerned and wants to figure out why I had such difficulty connecting with Apple.

Steve Massey
Massey Plugins Inc.

[dirtboy]

Originally Posted by sound and form

I've deleted my original message, as we've probably seen enough flames here.

I also had a good chat today with the product manager for Logic. He seems genuinely concerned and wants to figure out why I had such difficulty connecting with Apple.

Steve Massey
Massey Plugins Inc.

That's good news. Please let us know if/fwhen you're back on the AU track.

[SKyflash34]

Well this is at least a slight glimmer of hope....

Really glad to hear that the word on the street actually got to someone higher in the
Apple foodchain.

[peeder]

Excellent.

Remember that a complaint is a gift!

[perversity]

Originally Posted by sound and form

I've deleted my original message, as we've probably seen enough flames here.

I also had a good chat today with the product manager for Logic. He seems genuinely concerned and wants to figure out why I had such difficulty connecting with Apple.

Steve Massey
Massey Plugins Inc.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by sound and form

I've deleted my original message, as we've probably seen enough flames here.

I also had a good chat today with the product manager for Logic. He seems genuinely concerned and wants to figure out why I had such difficulty connecting with Apple.

Steve Massey
Massey Plugins Inc.

Sounds positive. Would love to use your plugs.
If it can't be, then so be it...

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by sound and form

I've deleted my original message, as we've probably seen enough flames here.

I also had a good chat today with the product manager for Logic. He seems genuinely concerned and wants to figure out why I had such difficulty connecting with Apple.

Steve Massey
Massey Plugins Inc.

that's really good news steve! in the end, i hope that some good comes out of all your effort even if it is only on apples part to support their third party developers better and supply a fully functional AU Develpment kit!

i do still hope that we'll see your plugins available as AudioUnits, that would be awesome!