Apogee Duet causes Kernal Panics

[GCL]

Apogee Duet causing Kernal Panics

Confirmed with Apogee tech support that this is a known issue on Macs with a lot of RAM installed (I have 16 GB of RAM on a Mac Pro 8-core). Quitting one audio app such as Logic and then attempting to open another such as DP will cause a kernal panic and forced restart every time (this is repeatable with no exceptions).

How many other users are experiencing this and have you reported it to Apple?

[jeremycox]

I have to ask in what situation do you frequently use 16gb of ram? Not that I wouldn't love to have that much ram--but im just saying..

[GCL]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

I have to ask in what situation do you frequently use 16gb of ram? Not that I wouldn't love to have that much ram--but im just saying..

Logic's EXS24, the Vienna Symphonic VI and Vienna Ensemble, and East-West's PLAY VI all use their own memory space outside of that used by the Logic app itself. As a result, I'm often using over 12 GB of RAM per project (even though Logic is still a 32-bit app limited to accessing something well under 4GB). This is the reason I bought all this RAM.

But please, let's keep this thread on topic re the Apogee Duet and kernal panics, thanks.

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by GCL

But please, let's keep this thread on topic re the Apogee Duet and kernal panics, thanks.

Okay. I have 5gb of ram and I dont have any problems.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by jeremycox

Okay. I have 5gb of ram and I dont have any problems.

Thanks for that info, I think the problem might be for those who have over 8 GB, but Apogee didn't give me a number.

[andremattos]

4gb of ram here , no problems

[nagal]

I have 8 GB installed and noticed this problem every since going to 10.5.2. It usually involves I have iTunes open and forgot to shut it down before going into Logic (8.0.1). I really have not given it much thought other than shut down iTunes before going into Logic.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by nagal

I have 8 GB installed and noticed this problem every since going to 10.5.2. It usually involves I have iTunes open and forgot to shut it down before going into Logic (8.0.1). I really have not given it much thought other than shut down iTunes before going into Logic.

For me, quitting previous audio app makes no difference, I still get the kernal panic every time. If I want to avoid it all together, the only way is to quit Logic, restart the Mac, and then boot DP.

[kingswood6]

This regards the same problem, but with the Apogee Ensemble. Since the components of the two products are similar (and both Firewire), I have the following to report, and hope it is not completely OT:

Since upgrading to OSX 10.5.1, and now 10.5.2., I am getting frequent kernel panics (descending gray, multi-language reset screens). This did not occur on Tiger. I do not get them at all with Logic 8.01, but sometimes get them when closing Logic and opening Ableton Live 7.02.

It is a mess with the Steinberg apps: with Cubase 4.1.2 and Nuendo 4.1.2. I get a kernel panic in about one of every three starts or restarts of either application.

I have a ticket open with Apogee--and they have told me that this is a known issue (in my case I presume, with the Ensemble) in Macs with more than *2G* of RAM. I have 4G in my Mac Pro quad (2 x dual Xeon 3.0ghz). They suggested removing 2Gs as one possible solution (no way).

I'd be curious if any of you get this separate issue with the Duet (another known problem with the Ensemble): when opening a Steinberg host application (and only Steinberg), the gain resets itself to 100%. An Apogee tech told me that their engineers are working on a workaround, but that this is a Steinberg issue.

I have no issues at all with my RME Fireface 800.

Thanks and regards,

Bill

[GCL]

Apogee techs, care to weigh in on this one, any updates this week? Thanks.

[cane creek]

I have a new mac pro 8 core with 10GB ram and i was going to purchase a Apogee duet in the next few weeks ...

think ill hang fire til the smoke settles ...

[clonewar]

I have a new 8 core Mac Pro with 16 gigs of ram and a Duet. I've had one kernal panic, about a month ago. It was the first reboot after I loaded about 100 gigs of new samples onto a new hard drive and I think it was related to Spotlight's mdworker process, I found several threads about Spotlight issues with 10.5.1..

Other then that, I haven't had any more kernal panics. I only use Logic and don't bounce between difference DAW's though. Is it only reproducible if you quit one DAW and open another?

[GCL]

Originally Posted by clonewar

I only use Logic and don't bounce between difference DAW's though. Is it only reproducible if you quit one DAW and open another?

Pretty much only reproducible if you quit one DAW and open another (100%). I always get a KP going between DAWs and only once is a great while going to and from other audio apps.

[mdme_sadie]

I have the issue not with Duet but with the Ensemble, if I turn on the Ensemble after a while rather than at a start of a session at the machine it can cause a kernel panic, and also when quiting and reopening Logic it can occasionally cause a kernel panic. I'm assuming that Apple is not forwarding any bug crash reports to Apogee (as I've sent quite a few off to Apple and the several OSX updates since this started have done nothing, and there's been no Apogee update either to fix this problem).

[xaipemw]

I have a Duet that I use with my MacBook Pro. It has 4GB of RAM, and I'm running 10.5.2. I would say that roughly half the time I plug my Duet into my MBP, it causes an immediate kernel panic/ Gray Screen of Death. I have kept in touch with Apogee support about this, but lately haven't heard anything back yet.

Weirdly enough, it has also happened when i UNplug the Duet, although only twice.

And not to completely hijack the thread, but is anyone else having issues with the pop-up graphics with Maestro? More often than not, it simply doesn't display anything.

[GCL]

The kernal panics happen when opening and closing between sessions of different samples rates, with users that have large amounts of RAM. It can even be between 2 Logic sessions, if they're at different sample rates. Apple, hope you can fix this quick.

[FFTT]

First of all, you should NEVER hot plug ANY F/W device into or out of any Mac while
it's running. Thats a great way to burn up your F/W port.

You must also use your Disc Utility to repair permissions each time you install any new software or drivers.

I'm having the same problem with my G5 running Protools M-Powered.

I'm thinking it must be an Interface Driver/OS Version or firmware issue because nothing else has caused this in the past.

It has also been well documented that Mac Pro RAM should be installed in matched sets of 4 DIMMS, preferably all matching if you're loading it up.

You may want to run your hardware test from your OS Disk to see if any of your DIMMS have a problem.

I just asked one of my ADC member friends about this and he confirms Apple
is having issues with external devices under 10.5.2, so it's bigger than just Apogee.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by FFTT

First of all, you should NEVER hot plug ANY F/W device into or out of any Mac while
it's running. Thats a great way to burn up your F/W port.

You must also use your Disc Utility to repair permissions each time you install any new software or drivers.

I'm having the same problem with my G5 running Protools M-Powered.

I'm thinking it must be an Interface Driver/OS Version or firmware issue because nothing else has caused this in the past.

It has also been well documented that Mac Pro RAM should be installed in matched sets of 4 DIMMS, preferably all matching if you're loading it up.

You may want to run your hardware test from your OS Disk to see if any of your DIMMS have a problem.

I just asked one of my ADC member friends about this and he confirms Apple
is having issues with external devices under 10.5.2, so it's bigger than just Apogee.

Thanks for that. Yeah, I've adhered to all these points you mentioned as a matter of course -- this has to be an Apple issue (as confirmed by Apogee too).

[mpmusicny]

The kernal panics happen when opening and closing between sessions of different samples rates, with users that have large amounts of RAM. It can even be between 2 Logic sessions, if they're at different sample rates. Apple, hope you can fix this quick

i had exactly the same - with 8Gb RAM. i exchanged a few emails with Apogee. At the time, i was the first person to contact them about it, and they could not reproduce it. i finally just gave up - i rarely change SR anyway..

[ipressrecord]

Not that it matters, but I have 3GB of RAM on a PowerMac Dual G5 and 1.5GB of RAM on a PB G4 and the Duet is playing fine with both since early December. I'm still on 10.4.10 for both computers.

Jeff

[Rasmus Faber]

I got the same problem with duet on a macbok pro, with 4GB of ram.

Typically the kernel panics occur when the computer wakes up from sleep.

A solution would be very helpful, anyone heard from Apogee about it?

[unvs]

Same problem here also. Alu. iMac w/ 4gb ram. I can switch samplerates 1 time after a fresh boot, but the next time I try - I get a kernel panic.

REALLY annoying.

[Dysanfel]

I have NEVER had a crash from unplugging my Duet, or from switching apps, or sample rates. Actually, I haven't had a kernel panic since upgrading to Leopard in December.

[macleodgrant]

maybe it has something to do with the fact that you've let it go to sleep.

i've had no issues with mine

i recommend installing macaroni and letting it automate your permissions repairing, temp files deletions, etc.
i use this on my macs and honestly rarely have problems

i have found adriver issue that i pointed out before where i would get loud bursts out of the blue in Logic which doesn't happen using my MOTU 828MKII; those MOTU guys write rock solid drivers...

[manning1]

just slapping in lots of lovely memory into a machine
sounds good in concept.
but, as always there are subtle aspects to be aware of.
there is never a free lunch.
in some cases adding too much memory can in fact impede
performance.
think of it like this. conceptually.
you have 5 friends in your lounge, you tend the bar and can easily
keep track of where everyone is n keep em happy.
now put 1000 friends in that same room n ya can get frazzled trying to
keep everyone happy n serviced with drinks.
(think of the OS as the bar tender. n the sample memory as friends.)
with computers there is often a memory "sweet spot".
in some respects memory speed is a limitation.
specialised monitoring software should be able to tell you
at what point adding more memory might impede performance.
cos as you ramp up the number of samples stored in mass memory ,
remember there is overhead (like the friends in your lounge.)
in keeping track of where everything is located.
ie..the application itself has more overhead dealing with 1000
samples than 5 samples.

what i would prolly do as a test also is load a few samples.
get the tracks recorded right n stored on disc.
before exiting the daw application look at an activity monitor.
then exit the application , look at the activity monitor again n
make sure memory had in fact been released back into the memory pool as it were.
then go back in again n do a few more tracks etc etc.
if you do enough testing prolly youll find i suspect a sweet spot
of number of samples loaded vs performance.
i suspect in some cases loading up a big gob of samples into a big gob of memory
can lead to performance stifling in other areas.
mebe other applications/processes/tasks are thus impacted.
thus leading to panics.

[cynics1207]

i have duet with mac pro, 3gb ram running 10.5.2 with logic 8.0.1. no problems with 10.5.2.

but i do have issue with 10.5.1, my mac pro cant wake up after it sleep when connect to apogee duet, must need to force shut down and restart. but after the 10.5.2 update, this problem gone. so far so good.

[cali316]

Well man, count me in. Last night I had no less than 5 kernel panics making it impossible to work. New Mac Pro and just recently upgraded to 4GB of RAM.

Luckily I didn't have everything brought over yet from my G5, so for grins I decided to troubleshoot the issue. Wiped the drive and did a fresh install of Leopard tonight along with the latest Ensemble software.

Had the Ensemble powered down while I was installing Logic. Once the updates were finished, I turned on the Ensemble and BAM - kernel panic. Un-f***-real...

Tomorrow I'll test with removing the newly added 2GB of memory...

[GCL]

Do you notice that Apogee hasn't updated their driver software for their Duet since October? That's 5 months ago. I'll tell you, I'm a long time DP user who bought into the Apogee/Apple hype and it's been nothing but a crashfest with a new Mac Pro 8-core and the Duet. I should have known better with how completely out-to-lunch Apogee was when they released their not-ready-for-primetime Ensemble last year. That was a joke. I sold that piece of crap and now I'm back with them again with the Duet. My fault for going back to them -- I guess I have too much faith in people, that they'll do their jobs, come through. Apogee or Apple doesn't seem to be able to write a decent driver. You Apogee guys should hire MOTU -- they know and have always known how to do drivers.

[dsstudio]

MacPro 8Core 2.8 with 12GB Ram.
I confirm that i have the same issue when swithing sample rate, load old songs [L6/7]
About to switch to Symphony [already have it 2 weeks ago but have no time to install] so I don't care much
Sonny

[asterox]

Running MBP 2.4 Ghz, 4G Ram, 10.5.2.
Same issues as a couple posters above:

Wake from sleep causes the kernal bomb.
Pop up screens are inconsistent and just don't show up sometime.

Good to know I'm not alone.