Liquid mix v2.x bass bug!!

[hugol]

Hi guys,

I started a thread over on soundonsound to discuss this, which you might be interested in. Whilst it might not be perfect, especially to you high-end guys, I've always wondered about the polarized opinions on the LM. I could never get bass or kicks sounding right through it yet the reviews were always great.

Basically the Liquid Mix v2.x software has a bug that seems to have the effect of filtering the LF. I had a hard time persuading people of this, but Focusrite have admitted the problem and are working on a fix.

Honestly rolling back to the 1.5 software makes a HUGE difference in the sound - particularly on LF boosts, but also I believe (could be wrong) to the compressors. What is quite amazing is that this hasn't been identified sooner...... unless most people never upgraded to v2 or went and bought Duende or UAD instead ?

Sound On Sound Forum

Regards.

[dannygold]

Thanks kind of insane. I hope the LM I just ordered has the 1.5 drivers on the DVD. I couldn't find 1.5 drivers on their site.

[justdatruth]

I made the post below back in June/July of last year regarding problems I was having with distorting EQ emulations, never got any replies, even after reposting again a few months ago, I'd love someone else to confirm something similar on their unit, be it v1.5 or v2 because its baffling me.

Ive attached 3 files which give an idea of what I mean

Originally Posted by justdatruth

been messing about with some of these betas good over the past few months so its good to see they have released the final version.

Now Ive noticed some very noticeable distortion on some of the eq emulations and I was wondering if anyone else here had experienced anything similar.

For an idea of what Im talking about, insert an instance of the huge tube eq on any audio track of your choosing and engage the lo-band, when i do this i get pretty nasty distortion (its especially obvious when you try and null the audio track with a phase-reversed copy).

Im also noticing similar things on other eqs, at a variety of settings, but rather than list all of those I was wondering if anybody has experienced the same thing or whether this problem could possibly be exclusive to my box?

[RedArmchairStud]

Originally Posted by dannygold

Thanks kind of insane. I hope the LM I just ordered has the 1.5 drivers on the DVD. I couldn't find 1.5 drivers on their site.

Hi,

Can someone please upload the 1.5 driver for mac?

Stefan

[RedArmchairStud]

I would be very happy if someone could email me the 1.5 driver for Mac?

Cheers

[peeder]

What got introduced in 2.x is the sidechain on the compressor. What is your sidechain setting, and what does having a sidechain do to the signal? Be sure to use "band on" on the sidechain.

...And wow reading through that thread I'm definitely going back to 1.5 until this is fixed. Thx for the heads up!

[Pronecobra]

Gosh,

I really want a Liquid Mix and have been saving up for one, but this scares me a little. Not so much that there is a problem but because of the apparently slow reaction Focusrite is having in fixing it. and not responding to customer complaints and issues is unforgivable. If you spend $800 on a voodoo box you had better be able to expect support. Still, I hope to hear all of this contradicted by a happy and satisfied customer (that knows what they are talking about and is savvy enough to hear problems) as I was very excited by the low price and extensive options as compared to Duende and UAD stuffs.

And that Duende Mini seems like a jip to me. It' bad enough that SSL make you buy the Drum Strip, X-Comp and X-EQ for the Duende, but now Duende mini doesn't come with the Buss Compressor! Lame.

P.Cobra

[dannygold]

When they fix it they should include a button to reproduce the current bogus behavior. Otherwise all mixes done now will sound different with the new drivers, which is never a good thing.

[dannygold]

I couldn't get the 1.5 drivers from my install DVD to work with DP 5.12 in OS 10.4.10. Anyone have 1.5.4 I can download?
Danny

[peeder]

Here is a link

http://www.focusrite.com/answerbase/... 1.5.4.dmg.zip

Is there any word on this bug.

[dannygold]

Thanks Peeder... and thanks for the LM snapshots too! Wish they'd just name them what they're named.

[AnalogBob]

I really hope focusrite fixes this bug promptly.

[dannygold]

I think it's already to late for "promptly". I tried the 1.5.4 drivers with DP5.13 on my mac book with 10.4.10 and they didn't work... no signal passed thru the plug. Worked fine with 2.0. And worked again as soon as I went BACK to 2.0. Focusrite's stock email admitting this problem was like "yeah, it only happens at low frequencies with large boosts"... as if that makes it not really a big deal? I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but aren't EQs supposed to work at low frequencies with whatever boost you WANT?

[peeder]

There's no question this is the sort of bug you don't sleep until the fix goes out the door.

[dannygold]

I think the thing is the LM isn't popular enough, or popular enough in the right circles to make this matter to them... can you imagine if the UAD couldn't boost lo freqs properly the outcry there'd be? I mean, there was a 50 page thread about the UAD2 and it doesn't exist! And the LM being pretty much totally broken in the low end (despite them downplaying it) is like three dudes moaning. And we're not the cool kid either. I've enjoyed it in the couple weaks I've had it, but I'm kind of afraid to use it in mixes because if they change the behaviour of the plug in updates it will change my mixes... I guess it'd be OK to use the comp and the high/mid EQ, but is still makes me a little nervous to know there's going to be a software update that changes things sonically.

[hugol]

To be honest I'm 90% sure that the bass issue also affects the compressors. They certainly seem to sound much better to me with version 1.5. I found them pretty useless for kicks before but they're fine now..... Should do a real-world test to prove it categorically at some point really.....

I agree it's pretty poor that they haven't released an update yet. At the very least they could have posted a message on their web site. The difference is pretty obvious and they'd get more kudos in my book by admitting the problem publically. It's actually doing the unit a big disservice....

[audwiz]

I also get the feeling that the compressor side sucks the bass out...in fact this is where I noticed it first...

Hope they fix soon...

[AnalogBob]

So is this bug exist in both mac and pc versions? I agree with the sentiments of bewilderment concerning the response to this bug and it should have been fixed yesterday.

[seriouz75]

Everything sounds better with version 1.5 ... the lowend, the highs .... nice and smooth. The Compressors sound ALIVE now.

Focusrite, please get this fixed ASAP !

[peeder]

BTW I think gearslut eugd discovered this bug

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/1671358-post8.html

You can see the curve that Liquid Mix is claiming is happening in the low end (the black one), which even after reductions from the high shelf is still claiming to be more than 10 db of boost. But listen to the files. I only had 6db or so of bass boost on the Duende and it has plenty more low end. Someone at focusrite: you tell me why I shouldn't get much bass out of my liquid mix EQs and then i'll tell you why you're wrong.

Well done eugd that was a month before the SOS forum report.

[dannygold]

Anyone besisdes me running 1.5.4 on an Intel Macbook, OS 10.4.10, DP 5.13 (or similar)? I can't get it to work! It passes audio but doesn't process it. Works in vers. 2 except bass bug :(

[ecmaj7@gmail.com]

so I'm not crazy then....
I have always been unhappy with the low end.
I emailed Focusrite and got a "we get plenty of low end" reply.
So maybe my unit is defective???
I will try 1.5...

so what is the official answer from Focusrite??

Emilio

[dannygold]

They admit the bug, but downplay it. They say "it only happens at really low frequencies and with really large boosts". Which, you know, is kind of something EQs are supposed to be able to do! I wish they'd fix it because 1.5 won't work for me in DP 5.13 on OS 10.4.10 intel mac book.

[peeder]

They don't even have a beta up. Morons! Do you have any idea how stupid this makes you look? Yes yes I know the main programmer has taken a side gig at Barclay's for twice the dosh. And the secondary programmer broke up with his girlfriend and has been too depressed to even answer the phone for a month. The project manager is claiming, "I can do it, I can do it!" but you know disaster that way lies. And the CEO is too busy playing bridge and ogling russian Olgas in St Bart's to allocate one pound more budget to do anything about the situation.

But none of those things are an adequate excuse! Close your eyes, think of England and FIX THE GODDAMN BUG ALREADY.

[ecmaj7@gmail.com]

I found this beta page somewhere awhile back.
let me know how it sounds.

Focusrite / Novation Beta Testing :: Releases

I am using the latest beta now.
Still don't get much boost below 100hz.
I need around 50hz for kick drums!

Emilio

[Siem]

Originally Posted by ecmaj7@gmail.com

I found this beta page somewhere awhile back.
let me know how it sounds.

Focusrite / Novation Beta Testing :: Releases

I am using the latest beta now.
Still don't get much boost below 100hz.
I need around 50hz for kick drums!

Emilio

There's about a month between each beta until the end of December after that none have come out. Their software team is/was probably working on other more urgent projects like the liquid4pre. Hopefully they have time to address this issue now.
I'm also wondering what happened to the promised extra emulations/impulses for the liquid mix? I did sent them a list with nice suggestions (like a Weiss eq1). A tool to create your own eq emulations/impulses would also be appreciated by me.

I use the liquid mix for highpass cutting sometimes - does this bug also influence that?

[ecmaj7@gmail.com]

you can't find the newer Copy Cat emulations on the site anymore.
Is anyone home?

Emilio

[hugol]

Danny, peeder totally agree with you guys - Focusrite need a kick up the backside.

The fact that I had to work hard to convince certain mods at sound-on-sound in the original thread was highly entertaining. Christ; someone's half-deaf granny would pick up on the issue.... It's amusing when people in forums spend so much time debating stuff like the difference between analogue and digital summing - which has got to be subtle if it even exists, yet when something like this turns up it's dismissed as a minor problem by supposed experts..... and Focusrite are continuing with this attitude.

The fact that Focusrite are fobbing people off is quite honestly insulting - this issue is so blindingly obvious and it certainly isn't only applicable to high EQ boosts. Either that or they should be hiring some grannies to point out the difference with the compressors . Time for Focusrite to get some bad press I feel .....

There feel a bit better now !

[dannygold]

Can we get a petition going or at least all email or reemail them? I feel kind of ripped off. I bought a LM and extra DSP card to do EQ and compresison. Not to do high EQ and compression. I mean I spent 800 bucks on the thing... shouldn't it work as advertised? I also wasted a lot of time trying to revert back to 1.5 software, which won't work on my machine.

[dannygold]

Hi Danny

Thanks for your email.

Sorry, I think one of our developers replied to you instead of a member of our Customer Support Team by mistake. As you may have gleaned from his brief message, this bug is fixed and our developers are putting the finishing touches to a beta release. This will hopefully be available today, or if not today then at the beginning of next week, on our beta site (Focusrite / Novation Beta Testing :: Releases).

Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.
Best regards

Andy Poole