iMac / MB / MBP with Agere firewire chipsets can be troublesome (okt 07 till feb 08)

[Savernake]

Originally Posted by mrbenedict

Hello @ all,

i have been following this topic with much interest as i am having serious trouble using my new Focusrite Saffire Pro Interface on my 20" Aluminium iMac. Thanks to this forum I am now sure where the problem lies..

Maybe it`s interesting for you that this week an Update of the EFI for MB, MMBP and iMac came out. I have installed it and it definately adressed the firewire issue, but unfortunately, the problem still isn't solved... Now I have no more crackling sounds due to bandwith problems, but instead, Firewire Devices seem to log on and off randomly. For example when I have a FW800 drive connected directly to the Mac (while listening to Music with the Saffire) and I unmount the drive, then the music stops. sometimes it gets on again, sometimes the interface has to be switched off and on again to work properly..

So it seems Apple is really trying to get this thing fixed and the new EFI is definately an improvement, at least for the imac and my Focusrite Interface. But it`s f
I would like to know what experiences you have after updating the EFI to find out how it works with other interfaces

Your other issues are likely because the sapphire drivers are just crap. A lot of people have serious issues with these on all kinds of macs.

Could this FireWire problem be why the SSL duende has kernel panics?

[halfguard]

just got my duet. 20 inch alum imac with 2g of ram...works great.......

[2A Batterie]

So I just got my new MB 2.4.... should I be worried? I haven't connected my DIGI002R yet, as it's in another state for a week.

[mrbenedict]

Originally Posted by Savernake

Your other issues are likely because the sapphire drivers are just crap. A lot of people have serious issues with these on all kinds of macs.

Could this FireWire problem be why the SSL duende has kernel panics?

Hi there,

afaik The Saffire Pro Units use Apples Core Audio Drivers and indeed THOSE are crap (@ least since leopard), and that is one of the reasons, why so many people using different units (also the Apogee Duet, etc) have problems on various macs using Leopard. You can look everywhere that CoreAudio has changed a lot in Leopard and is apparently not running as stable as it used to be in Tiger. What a coincidence that all the developers who get the newest builds of the upcoming 10.5.3 are asked to have a special look at audio stuff... So I don't think its a problem with the Saffire itself as it got very good ratings in various tests where they also used macs. Maybe you`re right and Focusrite really has done a bad job. But why then do almost all other units who rely on the CoreAudio Driver from Apple have almost the same issues? Have they all made crappy drivers? And why do brands that use their own drivers like RME have sometimes even more serious problems with their interfaces not even recognized by newer Macs?

I am pretty sure that

1. there are serious problems with core audio in Leopard
2. There are of course problems with the Agere chip
3. There are surely also problems with drivers not adopted too well to the new core audio system of Leopard... if Apple can`t make their own drivers stable, what kind of basis is that for all the manufacturers that rely on them?

Best,

Daniel

[coyotekells]

Can I check using the System Profiler utility to see what FW chip I have?

I just bought refurb'd iMac.. it's not the new one, or the previous alum, it's one before that when they were white and had the matte screen.
It has one 800 and one 400 port.

About to make a change on my audio interface, so it looks like I need to consider a few things.

[mrbenedict]

Hi there,

afaik, the white ones still have TI Chipsets. You can find it out by booting in single User mode pressing S while booting if i remember this correctly. We have one of those white imacs at the Studio with 2 FireFace800 attached with no problems. So no worries... all interfaces should work fine with this machine.

[giraffe]

from experience, echo audiofire2 and lucent = no probs for me.

have a digi 003 on order and good to hear that the problems don't seem to be in that camp.

i hope.
also, just in case, i've added a 7200 rpm hd to my mac book (not pro), and will record to that and archive to my fw hard drive.
no need to press the issue.

(my old setup was a g4 and an 001, and that was solid!)

[Blearyoftimothy]

Whats this got to do with hamsters?

[lespaul666]

Okay,

Been holding out buying a new MacBook Pro for almost a year now because of this Agere firewire problem, and I have to pull the trigger on a current unit, for work. Which of the new Penryn models are guaranteed to have the Ti FireWire chipset? eg, 2.5, 2.6, 15" or 17", or all of them??? Thanks!

[fizzler]

Originally Posted by mrbenedict

Hi there,

afaik, the white ones still have TI Chipsets. You can find it out by booting in single User mode pressing S while booting if i remember this correctly. We have one of those white imacs at the Studio with 2 FireFace800 attached with no problems. So no worries... all interfaces should work fine with this machine.

nope, i got the last "white" one 20" and it says "lucent..." (which is agere)

[fizzler]

Originally Posted by lespaul666

Okay,

Been holding out buying a new MacBook Pro for almost a year now because of this Agere firewire problem, and I have to pull the trigger on a current unit, for work. Which of the new Penryn models are guaranteed to have the Ti FireWire chipset? eg, 2.5, 2.6, 15" or 17", or all of them??? Thanks!

i am not sure if it was the 2.5 or 2.6 15" model, but the latest macbook pro definitely has a TI-FW chipset, i tested it a few days ago ;-)

[lespaul666]

Do the new, regular MacBook have the Penryn and Ti Chipset upgrade, as well?

[tomasallan]

Originally Posted by giraffe

from experience, echo audiofire2 and lucent = no probs for me.

have a digi 003 on order and good to hear that the problems don't seem to be in that camp.

i hope.
also, just in case, i've added a 7200 rpm hd to my mac book (not pro), and will record to that and archive to my fw hard drive.
no need to press the issue.

(my old setup was a g4 and an 001, and that was solid!)

Not so fast, see my case here:

DUC: Intel iMac 3.06 GHz not "Officially Qualified"

[Roc Mixwell]

Check this out.....its pretty helpful.

Apple Fire Wire Chip Set Reference

[soma spiral]

Check this out.....its pretty helpful.

Apple Fire Wire Chip Set Reference

Very interesting. From that page:

MacBook Computers (February 2008)

FireWire cable power is present anytime the AC adaptor is powering the system, including shutdown.


15-inch MacBook Pro Computers (February 2008)

FireWire power is present anytime the AC adapter is powering the system, including shutdown. On battery power, FireWire power is present only during system run and is un-powered in sleep and shutdown to prevent unintentional battery drain.

By explicitly stating that the MBP provides firewire buss power while running on battery, and not saying anything about MB buss power while running on battery, this implies that the MB does not support firewire buss power while running on battery.

Of course, it does not explicitly say that the MB does not support firewire buss power while running on battery, but lawyers have corrupted language to such a degree that one never knows any more.

I am looking to purchase a laptop for making 24/96 field recordings of nature using DPA 4006 mic's, so firewire buss power while running on battery is important. Nature can be rough on sensitive equipment, so I prefer to use a $1100 computer over a $2000 one, but I don't want to make a purchase decision based on implied language.

I watch and wait.

Soma

[blue monk]

I got 2 questions:

1.
Any problems with T.C. Konnekt interfaces?


2.
Do the current revisions of iMacs still have a problematic FW-ship?

[goroplayground]

I am going to buy a regular macbook(the black one) with agere chipset and an Echo audiofire4 for mobile recording(mostly 1-2 tracks at a time) and playing backing tracks in live show. Anyone have bad experience(compatibility/reliability issue) with this combo(I will be running XP with it)?

[Brian!]

Originally Posted by soma spiral

Very interesting. From that page:

By explicitly stating that the MBP provides firewire buss power while running on battery, and not saying anything about MB buss power while running on battery, this implies that the MB does not support firewire buss power while running on battery.

Of course, it does not explicitly say that the MB does not support firewire buss power while running on battery, but lawyers have corrupted language to such a degree that one never knows any more.

I am looking to purchase a laptop for making 24/96 field recordings of nature using DPA 4006 mic's, so firewire buss power while running on battery is important. Nature can be rough on sensitive equipment, so I prefer to use a $1100 computer over a $2000 one, but I don't want to make a purchase decision based on implied language.

I watch and wait.

Soma

I'll check on my Macbook with my FF400 when I get home.

[zumbido]

[quote=blue monk;2506251]I got 2 questions:

1.
Any problems with T.C. Konnekt interfaces?

+++++++++Yes, I got a Konnekt 24D last week and had problems with my MBP (Agere chipset)! I can't connect the audio interface (FW 400) and External HD (FW 800) at the same time, the TC freaks out!
so i'm using the external HD via USB2 (but i heard lots of times it is defintely not recommended for audio, could someone tell me why?)

so i'm gettin' an expresscard FW apiotek with a TI chipset, apparently that's my only way out! that's waht they told me at TC support!

[edwinhurwitz]

[quote=zumbido;2555041]

Originally Posted by blue monk

I got 2 questions:

1.
Any problems with T.C. Konnekt interfaces?

+++++++++Yes, I got a Konnekt 24D last week and had problems with my MBP (Agere chipset)! I can't connect the audio interface (FW 400) and External HD (FW 800) at the same time, the TC freaks out!
so i'm using the external HD via USB2 (but i heard lots of times it is defintely not recommended for audio, could someone tell me why?)

so i'm gettin' an expresscard FW apiotek with a TI chipset, apparently that's my only way out! that's waht they told me at TC support!

It probably depends on which software you are using, but PT LE or MP just won't deal with a USB drive.

As far as the FW bus goes, will your interface work with the Agere chipset without a drive connected? If so, I would use your express card port for an eSATA drive. Much faster than FW. If not, then do what you are doing and you should be OK.

Edwin

[zumbido]

[quote=edwinhurwitz;2556522]

Originally Posted by zumbido

It probably depends on which software you are using, but PT LE or MP just won't deal with a USB drive.
+++++++I'm using Ableton Live, and i have looked in their forum and nothing about USB. So far i've recorded via USB2, it works fine but opening projects takes a long time.

As far as the FW bus goes, will your interface work with the Agere chipset without a drive connected?
+++++yes!!
If so, I would use your express card port for an eSATA drive. Much faster than FW. If not, then do what you are doing and you should be OK.
+++++My Lacie HD is just FW 400 and 800, so i think i'll go for the expresscard!!
thanks!

Edwin

[blue monk]

Thank you edwinhurwitz and zumbido for the info.

I am planning buying a used iMac. I have not yet decided wether I`ll buy a white Intel-iMac or one of the new 2.8GHz iMacs with aluminium case.

I had been planning to use the internal harddrive for harddisk recording with Logic.
I also have external drives with FW, USB 2 and eSATA but was not going to use those for recording.

As audio interfaces are conderned I am considering TC Konnekt Live and MOTU Ultralite*.


*I am not planning to use the preampls of the interface (only doing synthesizers and effects. no microphones) so I figured that I could ignore that MOTU`s preamps are allegedly not that great. I should be happy aslong as the ADDA converters are good.

[JH4music]

I have a 24" white imac 2.16 core 2 duo. So far, I have NOT been able to get an m-audio profire lightbridge or a TC konnekt 48 to work. The software simply doesn't see the interface. Firewire hard drives mount up fine with no issue.

I have tested all available drivers for both interfaces in OS 10.5.4 and OS 10.4.11. No luck.

I know my imac is one of the later ones from the white generation, is the agere chipset only in the aluminum imacs or was it slipped into a few of the last white ones too?

[JH4music]

Just got off the phone with TC electronic. I apparently have a unit with too old of firmware, or just a junk unit.

One cool trick they taught me is how to identify your firewire chipset:

1. Reboot your mac, hold down Command-S while rebooting...

2. A black screen with white text appears with a bunch of gobblegoo.

3. Towards the bottom of the gobblegoo, look for the word "firewire"

If it says "TI" after it, you have the most desirable TI chipset. There were apparently a few aluminum imacs that did have this chipset, so if you have one you are in luck.

4. type exit to reboot back into OSX.

[blue monk]

Originally Posted by JH4music

Just got off the phone with TC electronic. I apparently have a unit with too old of firmware, or just a junk unit.

I thought all the white Intel iMacs where unproblematic with firewire audio interfaces.
What FW-chip does *your* white iMac have?

Are you planning to update the firmware in your TC interface or have you already done so?
More luck after the update?

I`m a bit in a dilemma: I want to buy one but of course it will have to work propoerly so I can make music.

[JH4music]

I thought all the white Intel iMacs where unproblematic with firewire audio interfaces. What FW-chip does *your* white iMac have?

This is what I thought too. Mine has the Texas Instruments chipset that is supposed to be the good one. But I've heard that this isn't always necessarily true, because some people are using the aluminum imacs with the Agere chipset without issue. personally think the problem has more to do with software, the only constant seems to be OS tiger or leopard. While not all of these users are having problems, the ones reporting problems are all on some revision of one of these OS's.

My experience with an m-audio profire lightbridge was that it would not work on OS 10.4.10 through 10.5.3, the only exception being a clean install of OS 10.5.1. Once I installed Logic, I couldn't get it to work anymore. M-audio tech support told me it was a defective unit. I didn't bother to try a second unit after they told me that using the power supply can damage the unit, that's simply bad engineering.

Are you planning to update the firmware in your TC interface or have you already done so?
More luck after the update?

I`m a bit in a dilemma: I want to buy one but of course it will have to work propoerly so I can make music.

TC told me they thought the problem was that the firmware in the unit I bought was too old to work with the newer software on my computer. They said I wouldn't be able to fix this myself and should exchange it for a different unit. It's getting sent back to where I bought it and swapped out for a new unit, so I won't know if I just got a bad unit or if they just won't work with my computer until the new one shows up, hopefully this will be the middle of this week.

The one thing fishy about this, is the unit I bought was sold to me as new, but the box had clearly been opened. So I'm thinking I got a bad unit that someone else had returned. I'll let you know if I get it working.

[LLSIII]

JH4music,

There IS a firmware update for your computer:

Apple - Support - Downloads - iMac EFI Firmware Update 1.1

I don't know why anyone would tell you you can't install it, it isn't hard. Hope it is what you're looking for to get your unit to work.

Not all white iMacs have the Ti chipset. There were some at the end of that production that have the hated Agere chip. Count yourself lucky if you have Ti chips.

On the other hand, I've read somewhere that Agere sort of fixed their chips in their latest incarnation, and that they'll be showing up soon in the aluminum iMacs, if they aren't already there. I'm waiting for someone to confirm that the latest al iMacs do have the new chips, and that they work ok. I've been watching this website...and at the RME forum...

[JH4music]

JH4music,

There IS a firmware update for your computer:

Apple - Support - Downloads - iMac EFI Firmware Update 1.1

I don't know why anyone would tell you you can't install it, it isn't hard. Hope it is what you're looking for to get your unit to work.

Already have that one, TC was referring to the firmware in the SK48, saying that it's too old to talk to my newer OS(Again, I don't entirely buy this because they had MORE problems with it on 10.4.9 and earlier).

Not all white iMacs have the Ti chipset. There were some at the end of that production that have the hated Agere chip. Count yourself lucky if you have Ti chips.

On the other hand, I've read somewhere that Agere sort of fixed their chips in their latest incarnation, and that they'll be showing up soon in the aluminum iMacs, if they aren't already there. I'm waiting for someone to confirm that the latest al iMacs do have the new chips, and that they work ok. I've been watching this website...and at the RME forum...

I can confirm that mine has the TI chipset. (this can be verified by rebooting while holding down command-s... see my earlier post)

Excluding my computer, what you're saying makes sense, because there are some aluminum imac users that are not having problems, and some white imac owners that have problems. It's still very possible that I have just been unlucky and gotten a defective unit each time... We'll see when the next one shows up.

[blue monk]

I have contacted TC, RME and MOTU and got these infos:

TC support & RME support agree that the claim that `TI FW-chips are unproblematic` is true.

TC support further writes:
"
There are vatious Agere FW-chips. The problematic ones are the new small Agere chips. The first Apple products that use those are the Alu iMacs and MacBook Pro Noevember 2007 - February 2008
"

So if there are white iMacs with Agere chips, then those might be different than the later ones.

TC support:
"
Only the MacBook Pro and MacPro have TI chipsets
"


TC support also writes that there is only one known issue with TC Konnekt interfaces:
The SK48 can`t use 96kHz.
All other Konnekt interfaces should work.
http://forum.tcelectronic.com/viewtopic.php?id=1116



RME support gives this info:
"
Macbooks have been switched back to TI.
"

[JH4music]

Okay, I have just recieved my second TC Konnekt 48. I can confirm that this one works! So far all I've tested is the headphone outs, but the computer sees this one, and I'm able to access it with Logic, Audio MIDI setup and the sound control panel.

The TC near software crashed after uploading firmware, but once relaunched the device seems to be functioning fine, and displays the new firmware version correctly. This is normal, according to the documentation that came with the unit.

So, whiteface imacs with the TI chipset are good to go for Konnekt 48, at least on the firewire side of things. I'm going to rack this unit and test it extensively, as I've heard there have been problems with the mic pre pots as well.