iMac / MB / MBP with Agere firewire chipsets can be troublesome (okt 07 till feb 08)

[Francis Vaughan]

I've got a new 2008 Mac Pro 8 core. 16 gigs of (well tested) ram. Babied machine. Awesome, fast stuff.
I plugged my Apogee Mini-Me Firewire edition into it. The very second I did, Instant Kernel PANIC!

There has been another thread where there have been problems with Apogee's drivers, more than 4GB of memory, and kernel panics. Of itself it sounds like it isn't directly a Firewire issue (well not chipset related.)

Still, this does remain worrying. I am about to pull the trigger on a 17" MBP with 4GB. I really want it to be OK.

[vinayk]

i've given up on this which is a shame.

when apple get their act together, i'll think about buying a laptop - or maybe even if they beef up their Mac Mini's i may consider getting one of those.. until then... its stuck in PC land for me - no issues whatsoever with some cheap as chips firewire PCI!

[rangda]

Since nobody seems to be posting testing results...

I picked up a stock 2.5 MBP. Installed the M-Audio 410 drivers and Audacity into Leopard and tried making a quick 30 second 2 channel recording. Got a click in the audio, so some work needs to be done there. (can anyone point me to a guide for setting up Leopard for DAW use?) Audacity's painting of the waveform was atrociously slow, not sure if this is normal in OSX or if some graphic optimization is off.

Installed XP via bootcamp, booted into XP. Let XP do a windows update (90 patches). Applied the following hotfixes:

Performance of 1394 devices may decrease after you install Windows XP Service Pack 2
An SBP-2 device does not work when it is connected to a Windows XP SP2-based computer

Then did the following:

1) Disable graphics write combining: right click on the Desktop and select Properties->Settings->Advanced->Troubleshooting, and untick "Enable Write Combining"

2) Disable Nvidia PowerMizer - right click on the Desktop and select Properties->Settings->Advanced->GeoForce 8600M GT->Mobile->Change PowerMizer Settings->Not Manage My Power Consumption

Installed CDWav, Audacity, and the M-Audio 410 XP drivers. Booted back into XP, disabled the wireless (but left bluetooth on), killed kdbmgr.exe (Apple keyboard manager process). Ran DPC Latency Checker and with the system idling and me moving the mouse around my peak latency is under 500us. Ran CDWav, set it up to record from the 410 and recorded a few min of audio @ 16/48 off an iPod. Plays back fine. Latency never broke 800us throughout the whole process except when I started playback of the recording through the built in soundcard, I got a spike of 4000us just as it started playing.

Going to make a hardware profile for DAW work and kill all the unnecessary hardware and do more testing as time permits, will post results as I find them. But initial testing for me (as was indicated by Jeff @Synthax/RME) looks promising.

EDIT: Forgot to add, the MBP bus powers the M-Audio 410 fine.

EDIT2: More updates, recorded ~10 min of 2 channel audio at 96/24 with 64 buffers in bootcamp cleanly; repeated the test in OSX with same results (disabling wireless fixed my clicking in OSX). (Except I don't see a way to set buffer size in the M-Audio 410 OSX driver, is this a windows only thing? Are they just not dealing with it in a beta driver? I am a mac noob.)

[Brian!]

my 410 works fine on my penryn macbook but you gotta remember that the leopard drivers are still considered "beta"

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by rangda

Since nobody seems to be posting testing results...

I picked up a stock 2.5 MBP. Installed the M-Audio 410 drivers and Audacity into Leopard

I wouldn't use Audacity for your test. My experience is it goes 'poof' alot in Leopard. I guess you get what you pay for.

[rangda]

Originally Posted by Dysanfel

I wouldn't use Audacity for your test. My experience is it goes 'poof' alot in Leopard. I guess you get what you pay for.

I noticed that; it blew up a couple of times when I tried to get a test recording. Is there a free recording tool that runs decently under Leopard? (I just need to record 2 channels of audio.)

[whinecellar]

Update:

On my November '07 MacBook Pro (with TI chipset) I was having problems with several brands of interface (Presonus Firebox, Echo AudioFire 8 & 12, etc.). Odd, considering my 1st-gen MacBook Pro has a Lucent chip and it works flawlessly with all interfaces I've tried.

Anyway, I just installed Leotard (10.5.2 and all updates) on an external drive, then imported all my user & app files from my internal drive running 10.4.11. I'm not sure what, if anything, got addressed by Leopard, but every interface I have works perfectly now, other than the Presonus Firebox. For some reason that one just won't show up at all. I have 2 of these, and it's the same with both of them.

Anyway, M-Audio Firewire 410, RME Fireface 800 and Echo AudioFire 8 & 12 are working perfectly via FW400 port - no problems whatsoever.

Jim

[Ric4001]

I just bought a Macbook Pro (2.2ghz, 120gb hard drive, 2 gig ram, 15 in screen) that was shipped from Apple to Guitar Center on 12/25/07. Guitar Center has a no return policy on computers, so I'm reluctant to open the box until I can determine which chipset this computer has.

Is there a way to tell when it was made by serial number, model number or something else that might appear on the box?

[rangda]

Originally Posted by Ric4001

I just bought a Macbook Pro (2.2ghz, 120gb hard drive, 2 gig ram, 15 in screen) that was shipped from Apple to Guitar Center on 12/25/07. Guitar Center has a no return policy on computers, so I'm reluctant to open the box until I can determine which chipset this computer has.

Is there a way to tell when it was made by serial number, model number or something else that might appear on the box?

No, but based on that date I would guess that it is Agere. It seems like they switched back to TI some time in late feb/early march, but to be 100% sure I think you need a penryn MBP.

[nivek_yoccm]

can't remember if this has been confirmed but. . . I just checked Macbook non-pro edition at Apple store yesterday and was (still) Lucent. . .

this is a big disappointment; like others here, I'm actually a PC desktop user but have been preparing for a Macbook mobile rig for a while

also, PLEASE keep up the regular Macbook (non-Pro) updates; that was the best option for me and obviously quite a few others. . . until this. . .

[aquafreak]

i know a guy who sends apple's feeback/cust service division (that online form) a link to this thread every day, ad nauseum.

like a lot of you, i didn't think i would be here in march 2008.

the other day i got so down about it that i thought maybe i'll just drop $800 on a roland mc-808 just to have some trouble-free fun and sequencing.

i credit many of you for saving me upwards of $4000. i don't know what to do at this point. i'm not trying to record stuff live, and don't have a huge need for recording 24 tracks live - that kind of thing. i'm more interested in getting a good, low-latency midi setup for performing, tweaking, and producing techno/trance tracks live via ableton, reason, etc, and using midi controllers. if i can't get an interface that works with a MBP, then wtf.

i'm not about to use my vista PC for music, or maybe i am. i guess i'll give it a try. sorry for this mainly meaningless post, but maybe someone from apple is reading

[Ric4001]

Originally Posted by rangda

No, but based on that date I would guess that it is Agere. It seems like they switched back to TI some time in late feb/early march, but to be 100% sure I think you need a penryn MBP.

Thanks. I just found a site that gives the week of manufacture based on serial number -- it's Klantenservice: Serienummers.

Based on my serial number, my MBP was made in week 51 of 2007, and was the 3,837th computer made that week.

Do we have any data on when they switched back to TI chipsets for MBPs? If other people with MBPs check their manufacture dates using this site, maybe we can pinpoint the week they changed back?

[LLSIII]

So, seems that the MBP is back to using the TI chip...but what about the iMac?

Anyone know if Apple has got the TI chip back in the iMac, or is it still the Lucent (Agere) chip? My last vist to a Apple store reveled the Lucent chip in the al iMac, but that was about a month ago....

[ion-five]

hi every1

just wanted to post i first purchased an summer 07 MBP checked the chip, and it was TI, but gave it back since i was able to get a new one 2,4 for about the same price

the new MBP here is from 2nd half feb. 08 and has got the TI chip and working absolutly fine with the Motu ultralite.


i wouldnt count so much on the date, but better to get a late FEB 08 book

also if ya purchase through ebay its easy to ask the seller for doing the APPLEBUTTON - S trick fe check if its TI or not

good luck and dont panic
i am from germany, so who knows maybe the agere trash is spread more in US. ?

cheers

[ericcoumans]

I followed the news about the Agere/TI-Chip and contacted Motu about this problem.

They say, for example the Traveler, hasn't got any problems with the new MacBookPro: "Our Firewire interfaces will work with any version of the MacBook Pro."&"The Traveler will work with any of the Macbook Pro's."

So, i presume the new MacBookPro is fully compatible with the Motu Traveler...

Anyone tested the new MacBookPro in combination with FireWire audio devices???

[d_fu]

Originally Posted by xaipemw

This is directly from Presonus' website:
PreSonus
Note: Due to a circuit design change, Mac Book Pro laptop computers will not supply sufficient power over the FireWire bus to initially boot up the FireBox. Once the FireBox has beeen initially powered on with the included external power supply, you may disconnect the external power supply, the FireBox can then be bus-powered.

The lack of bus power is not related to the FW chipset - it affects all recent MBPs.

[rangda]

Originally Posted by ericcoumans

Anyone tested the new MacBookPro in combination with FireWire audio devices???

Read #123

[ion-five]

Originally Posted by ericcoumans

Anyone tested the new MacBookPro in combination with FireWire audio devices???

like i wrote few posts up, here it works just fine!

[celticrogues]

Well not so happy here - Stock 2.5 GHz Macbook Pro, 2 Gigs of RAM, running 10.5.2 and my M-Audio FW 1814 gives me Kernal panics every time I turn it on. The M-Audio Leopard Drivers are still in Beta though, so hopefully that will fix it and its not a larger issue.

Cheers!
-Mike

[soundpilot]

I just ordered a Lavry AD10 Black from Craig Calistro to help bypass the whole firewire nightmare (it has an optical output).

Funny thing is, just moments after I ordered, Apple issued an EFI firmware update for the Mac Pro. Now the Apogee doesn't cause the curtain of death when turning it off and on, so Apple might've changed something for the better.

I don't know if plays nice with software, though. I'll find out tonight when I record. I'll let you guys know.

If it does work, hopefully they issue the same kind of update for the Macbooks soon, as well. (I have all kinds of Macs, and the firmware update only came up on Big Mac Pro software update list)

[ari800]

Ok, I asked a while ago if anybody have experiences using the Lucent iMac with SSL's Duende and got no answers.

So I decided to take my chances and purchase the Duende Classic. And I'm glad to report that (-atleast for so far) it works well !

I'm using my Presonus Firebox in the FW400 bus and the SSL Duende is in the FW800 bus with FireWire 800 to 400 -cable.

I guess that's good news for anybody considering this type of setup

[celticrogues]

Originally Posted by celticrogues

Well not so happy here - Stock 2.5 GHz Macbook Pro, 2 Gigs of RAM, running 10.5.2 and my M-Audio FW 1814 gives me Kernal panics every time I turn it on. The M-Audio Leopard Drivers are still in Beta though, so hopefully that will fix it and its not a larger issue.

Cheers!
-Mike

Just an Update on this: I spoke with M-Audio Tech Support about this yesterday, and apparently I am the first person to ever come to them with this problem on a Macbook Pro - it has been occurring on Mac Pros but never on a Macbook pro until now...
Anyway, eventually we were able to trace the problem down to the interface being daisy chained with a firewire hard drive. They had me unplug the firewire cable from the computer and the interface and wait three seconds, which apparently allows the firmware to reset, and plug it straight in to the laptop. After that it worked perfectly.

So now, when I plug the 1814 straight into my computer it works fine. When I try to daisy chain it with my Lacie Porche FW400 hard drive, though, (with the drive closest to the computer), I get the kernel panic every time. M-Audio was pretty mystified about this, and promised to elevate my problem up to engineering, so I'm hopeful about a fix soon.

Interestingly, after I talked to one of their higher-up tech support staff, he tried to place the blame on the Agere firewire chip in the new laptops. He was interested to learn that the current evidence suggests that Apple went back to TI chips in this latest revision, but there is still some confusion about what chip is being used, even among the tech geniuses at M-Audio. Apparently this Agere chip, which they know about, can mess up their stuff too.

Side note: The guys at M-Audio tech support were really nice and very helpful - After I called initially, I got 2 follow-up calls within about 2 hours from someone higher up in the tech support department who was concerned about solving my problem, something I didn't expect at all.

Cheers!
-Mike

[nashbbq]

so is this all resolved in the new MBP? I'm looking to get one and want to know if there will be trouble running a external firewire drive and my 002 at the same time. (I know...no PT support yet...but it's my Logic I/O as well).
much love.
reid

[whinecellar]

Yep, any new Penryn-based MBP is using the TI chipset (I've installed 3 already since late Feb.), so you're good to go.

JD

[diitriss]

The new penryn Macbooks though (not Pro), are Agere.
Is there a known firewire audio card that is rock stable with them right now?

[nashbbq]

I'm buyin' one today!!!
Thanks!

[Just Dan]

Originally Posted by diitriss

The new penryn Macbooks though (not Pro), are Agere.
Is there a known firewire audio card that is rock stable with them right now?

Haven't ever had a problem with a Metric Halo ULN-2. And I'm on the Agere MacBook

[JD Latorre]

I searched the thread but could not find anyone who mentioned problems with the 002 and the lucent chip set. Am I the first?

I have a September 2007 MB with the lucent chip set. I was doing a mobile gig a few weeks ago with my 002R and MB. I kept getting sporadic pops and clicks exactly like what you get when PT is having trouble syncing to an external clock (each time I doubled checked to make sure this was not the issue). Twice PT stopped recording all together and I got a PT error message I have never seen before that said something about an inaccurate clock and the firewire bus.

I have used the exact same set up (just a few mics, ISA 428, 002) probably 10 times in the last 2 years with an older iBook G4--no problems. The only new element in the mix this time was the mac book.

The thing that makes me wonder though is that everyone else is seeing kernal panics and firewire interfaces that aren't even recognized by the computer. My problems seem pretty minor by comparison. Maybe it's something else?

Just wonder if anyone else has seen anything like this.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by JD Latorre

The thing that makes me wonder though is that everyone else is seeing kernal panics and firewire interfaces that aren't even recognized by the computer. My problems seem pretty minor by comparison. Maybe it's something else?

Yes, it's not the same problem, but the thing is Apple shouldn't be using inferior firewire chipsets, the point is to deliver a better computer when a new version is produced, otherwise it's a downgrade.

Digidesign writes its own driver and it seems the computer recognizes the interface, so it's not affected. Lucky you!

Have you tried raising your buffersizes? Or maybe lowering them will help. Sometimes it's a balance thing. Keep in mind that there's just one firewire buss on the machine. You could buy a PCI express card with another firewire bus to spread the load.

[JD Latorre]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Have you tried raising your buffersizes? Or maybe lowering them will help. Sometimes it's a balance thing. Keep in mind that there's just one firewire buss on the machine. You could buy a PCI express card with another firewire bus to spread the load.

Thanks for the info Geert. Someone on this thread mentioned the order of the "signal chain" between computer, interface (002 in my case) and external hard drive. I think I plugged the drive into the mac book, and the 002 into the firewire drive last time. I might try plugging the 002 into the computer, and then the drive into the 002.

But if what you are saying above is true, it probably doesn't matter much what the order is since the signal to both units has to use the same firewire bus. I guess I could use the USB 2.0 option on the drive, but the low sustained through-put of USB 2.0 has always made me nervous. Or course I'm only recording 2 channels at 24/44.1 (classical stuff).

Thanks again for the input--at least I have an idea of what to try to fix it now.