iMac / MB / MBP with Agere firewire chipsets can be troublesome (okt 07 till feb 08)

[elloweez]

Hello all,
My first post here on gearslutz. Has anyone tried the digidesigns 002 or for that matter any of the Digidesign stuff with the newer macs? I have read a lot about apogee not working but i don't think Ive found anyone commenting on how the firewire issues are affecting digidesigns hardware. My old G5 died and i want to get an Imac but after having read this entire thread i am a more than just a little concerned.
Elloweez

[rangda]

Originally Posted by Murahachibu

Anyway I went ahead and ordered a MBP, but I was not too impressed with the level of service I got...

Apple stores are boutiques designed to sell sex and glitz to the average consumer. The only way you'd get meaningful help there is if the store happened to have an employee for whom audio was a hobby.

Regarding what you got over the phone, you will get the same runaround if you call Dell, HP, etc. (I speak from experience). No manufacturer wants to comment on hardware components or make any sort of promise that their hardware will work with some 3rd party component.

There have been numerous posts on forums stating that the new MBP's have TI, but nobody has actually tried using one yet. So whether it really works or not is still TBD.

[LLSIII]

elloweez, welcome to GS from another newish member!

Digi is working on getting their software to work on Leopard, but I'd check at their website about compatibility. HD is supported with 10.5.1, but I don't think they've finished their LE support yet.

Digidesign | Support | Pro Tools LE 7.x with Intel-based iMac

The above link should get you started...

[elloweez]

Hey,
Thx for the response. But I was really wondering wether or not anyone is having problems with there digidesign hardware not working because of the faulty firewire Agere chips that are in many of the newer macs. Also has anyone had any problems with Lacie or Western Digital external drives because of this issue?

[vinayk]

Murahachibu, tell me how your MBP goes with firewire!

I called some of the mac stores near by - they wont be getting demo models until later this week, so i'll have to wait till thursday (when I have a free day) to go and see if my firewire works - if it does i'm ordering thursday night!

Does apple have a no questions asked return policy?

Vinay

[aquafreak]

on the topic of getting the runaround, well, i called apple tech support back in december (i'm in the u.s.) and i coincidentally got a musician - after a period of skirting the subject, he said yes we are aware of the firewire issue. then he put me on hold for about 3 mins, and came back and confirmed that yes, we are using the agere chipset. so i thought that was nice of him to at least let the info out. i sure hope the TI chipset is back and working 4 real.

Originally Posted by vinayk

Does apple have a no questions asked return policy?

i'd like to hear if anyone knows about this too. so I asked apple on the phone about this as well. keep in mind this was about web orders - so i don't know if it's the same for the apple stores. i still am confused - i do feel like i got the runaround/doubletalk on this. what they said is you have 2 weeks (someone else mentioned this earlier on in the thread).

but after further questions, i can't tell if this is no questions asked. the reason i'm not sure is they gave me this line about how if it's a 'customized' macbook, then it's subject to a hefty (i think they said 25%) restocking fee. and then they said adding memory constitutes customizing ???????

and here i was thinking i'd have my little electronic music setup back in november. blah.

[rangda]

Originally Posted by aquafreak

on the topic of getting the runaround, well, i called apple tech support back in december (i'm in the u.s.) and i coincidentally got a musician - after a period of skirting the subject, he said yes we are aware of the firewire issue. then he put me on hold for about 3 mins, and came back and confirmed that yes, we are using the agere chipset.

This is why I said you don't get useful help for technical audio questions unless you happen to get someone for whom it is a hobby. You got lucky and got such a person. :)

Originally Posted by aquafreak

but after further questions, i can't tell if this is no questions asked. the reason i'm not sure is they gave me this line about how if it's a 'customized' macbook, then it's subject to a hefty (i think they said 25%) restocking fee. and then they said adding memory constitutes customizing ???????

From Apple's point of view if you pick any options at all on your mac it's custom (as in something they don't sell out of an apple store). Which means if you add ram, a 7200 rpm hard disk, glossy screen, etc. you have a 'custom' mac.

Originally Posted by aquafreak

and here i was thinking i'd have my little electronic music setup back in november. blah.

I know this pain, I was planning on having my digital DJ setup done in December (bought Traktor Scratch on Black Friday here in the US). But I want to use some fw i/o boxes too and I've been in fw hell since.

[xaipemw]

I'm a MBP owner. I used to use a Presonus Firebox with my old Powerbook G4.

This is directly from Presonus' website:

PreSonus

Note: Due to a circuit design change, Mac Book Pro laptop computers will not supply sufficient power over the FireWire bus to initially boot up the FireBox. Once the FireBox has beeen initially powered on with the included external power supply, you may disconnect the external power supply, the FireBox can then be bus-powered.

I had the very same problem. I don't have this with the Duet, which is my current interface.

[Murahachibu]

I saw that Garage Band was just updated and it specifically notes firewire fixes...I wonder if this is related to this issue.

Still don't have my MBP. It shipped today, but the tracking info says it won't arrive until the 11th...

[JMIjeff]

I just bought a new, previous version of the MBP. They dropped the price by $500 due to the new release. It's has 800/400 TI FW ports and the 120G HD will have plenty of FW HD help! Agere FW issue sidestepped!

[rangda]

I see lots of people stating that they've bought post feb 2008 MBP's with TI firewire. But nobody saying they've actually tried any of them with any fw i/o boxes. Has anyone tried an audio i/o device with a new TI MBP? If so how many channels; what latency, etc.?

[HughH]

Hello,
The only confirmation I've seen is on the RME forum, where Jeff, from Synthax, the US distributor, says they have a FF400 and a FF800 running well so far on a new Penryn MBP. Damn fine news.
H

[composer]

Originally Posted by rangda

I see lots of people stating that they've bought post feb 2008 MBP's with TI firewire. But nobody saying they've actually tried any of them with any fw i/o boxes. Has anyone tried an audio i/o device with a new TI MBP? If so how many channels; what latency, etc.?

Sold my pre OCT 2.2 for $1540 got a new 2.4 glossy for about same price, built Jan, can bring it back if I NEED TO. Anyway, mackie FW audio device, no problems. TI.

:-)

[JMIjeff]

FWIW, I recently read that RME is one of the few interface makers that use their own FW chipsets (they built it, so they can support it with fixes if needed and do so directly). Also, that Mackie and Echo interfaces use TI FW chipsets.

[meblumen]

Why isn't this a sticky anymore? Has some kind of consensus been reached regarding the new generation of firewire chipsets in Macbook Pros?

[feedback]

up *

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by meblumen

Why isn't this a sticky anymore? Has some kind of consensus been reached regarding the new generation of firewire chipsets in Macbook Pros?

I thought I had read that Apple switched back to TI on the latest merom machines and now also for Penryn.

So that's why I unstickied the thread. If more people feel it should be stickied longer, I will do so. I was getting a bit depressed with seeing that notice all the time, however it probably is also a good warning for prospect buyers who might think they can score a deal on an older model.

Let me know what to do!

[terminal3]

for anyone who cares, I just bought a refurb Merom C2D 2.4 from the Apple Store (UK) online and it came with a TI chipset. They still have them there, for £1049 which is an amazing price.

I'm not making you any promises of course, but it might be worth a shot!

I haven't gotten around to installing anything on it yet/testing interfaces but I'm hoping for the best.

[Geert van den Berg]

Logging into single user mode (cmd - s while booting) will also reveal the firewire chipset. I've read of many people installing windows in order to find out if their machine has an Agere chipset, but that is not necessary.

[diitriss]

Ok, what about the MB (not Pro)?
I've red they still use the Agere chipset.

[rangda]

While it is true the new MBP's are using TI (I just came back from the Apple store to see it with my own eyes), we have not seen a lot of posts confirming that they are working w/o problems. There have been a few (Jeff from Synthax/RME who stated it was working great in preliminary testing, someone using it with Mackie hardware); there have also been people like whinecellar who (I think) has a just pre-penryn MBP with TI and is having problems.

So I'm not sure the issue is closed as to whether they work or not (it certainly isn't for me). I'd conduct the test myself but if the answer ends up being no it will end up costing me the $250 USD restocking fee. But I'm getting to the point where I might do it soon anyway; I wanted this DAW (DJ box for me) up and running in December.

To diitriss,

I have heard (but not personally verified) on several sites that the MB is using Lucent (which is really probably Agere) still; but seen posts where people are using them w/o problems anyway.

[meblumen]

I obviously don't want to be a burden or make waves but I think this should still be a sticky until a more definitive answer is reached.

[celticrogues]

Originally Posted by meblumen

I obviously don't want to be a burden or make waves but I think this should still be a sticky until a more definitive answer is reached.

+1

My new 15" MBP is on the way so I'll do some testing when it gets here - prolly in a week or so.

Cheers!
-Mike

[soundpilot]

Hey guys, here's some new info for ya:

I've got a new 2008 Mac Pro 8 core. 16 gigs of (well tested) ram. Babied machine. Awesome, fast stuff.

Worked almost perfectly (running 10.5.2 with all updates) with few hiccups, until...

I plugged my Apogee Mini-Me Firewire edition into it.

The very second I did, Instant Kernel PANIC!

A.K.A. The Grey Curtain of Death. The big CRASH-O.

After rebooting, it sometimes worked for a bit, but the whole thing basically made the machine unstable and scary to use for any kind of creative work. Sometimes an audio program would work for a few minutes, sometimes it'd crash the machine immediately. Mostly it'd crash at some point during the workflow, or when waking up.

Went through hours of troubleshooting with AppleCare. Tried making new OS X accounts to look for software problems... removed all kinds of plist stuff (preferences)... even did a did a semi-fresh install (called an Archive & Install) back to 10.5.1. After a almost a whole day of troubleshooting work (reminiscent of debugging Windows 98)... and still: Deadly Kernel Panics GALORE. Ugh!

I also tried various solutions I've seen on the forums. I bought a firewire hard drive (a 1TB MyBook, which DOES work fine when used alone), and plugged my Apogee into that... the "firewire chaining" solution.

Nope. Nothing works. This particular Apogee and the Mac Pro don't agree at all.

My next move is to call Apogee themselves, even though this unit has proven itself reliable with other machines.

Ohyeah, and get this (this is the sad part):

I have the TI chipset! (it says something like TI firewire chipset 853 when I bootup in single user mode) That's the real bummer. It must be a support logic chip or something else that's getting in the way.

Whatever the real problem is, it's really bumming me out. Most other interfaces I've been considering are firewire, too. What's a creative to do? "Switch" to PC???!!! Geesh!

[ion-five]

hello to each n everyone.. my first post in this nice board

i am troubeled

because of the problems mentioned in this topis i choosed to get an older macbook pro pre 08.2007

because of all this irritation i even payed more or the sae amount wich a new version (used) would cost me....
but i can give it back with no costs during a month!

so now i am really in need of knowledge if not even the new FEB.08 books (with most likley TI chip?) can handle the firewire interfaces !? !?

i am just now switching from PC+RME to mac+ Motu Ultralite
didnt have a chance to test now because both arent arived yet.

but i am really thinking about giving the book back (its even in my town)
and try my luck on a FEB08 for the same price

or would you guys advise me not to? because feb08 isnt at all bettah?

damn it what a confusion... i am about to change to apple because of smoothnes (...)

thanks if sbd got a min. for me

[soundpilot]

Just a quick update....

Apogee were really great on the phone with me (as always -- friendly, kind service from these guys)

They recommend downgrading to Tiger, which may help some of you. (I can't do it, since I don't have access to full Tiger discs that would do a install on a new Mac Pro). They say at least for Mac Pro users, it's usually an issue with Leopard and high memory, and they're working on it. (Could be a different scenario for portable users, of course.)

They also recommended that I do NOT buy any other Firewire audio interfaces until this issue is addressed... including their own Duet or Ensemble. I appreciate it when I'm not upsold into the nightmarish circle of buying yet other "solution" that won't work either (as other companies have been known to do) This issue SUCKS, but Apogee rocks!

Guess it's time to look into a non-firewire interface for the time being.

BTW, here's yet another thread on the Apple discussions forums that covers this (rather horrible) issue:
Apple - Support - Discussions - Mac Pro crashes upon wake....now even ...

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by meblumen

I obviously don't want to be a burden or make waves but I think this should still be a sticky until a more definitive answer is reached.

Like I said, if I get some more responses the post will be sticked again.

It seems there is still too many confusion about the issue. And also it's still not clear that the newer machines work problem free.

[soundpilot]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Like I said, if I get some more responses the post will be sticked again.

It seems there is still too many confusion about the issue. And also it's still not clear that the newer machines work problem free.

I can confirm the 2008 Mac Pro definitely doesn't play nice with firewire.

It'd be good to get some interface reps on here to confirm what they do and don't know, about all the different models. They get more support calls about this, than there are posts on the forums.

Max from Apogee is still around here, isn't he? It'd be cool if he dropped into the thread with they currently know.

[HughH]

Hello,
Hope this isn't a repeat -
Jeff from Synthax, US distributor for RME, says he has the RME FF400 and FF800 working very well on the new TI-based Penryn MBP. FYI.
Once the insanity of this spring's work schedule ends I'm ordering one.
H

[ion-five]

Originally Posted by soundpilot

I can confirm the 2008 Mac Pro definitely doesn't play nice with firewire.

does this mean any 08 book pro? also since mid feb08?

i jus should have kept my multiface and bought that damn 34 card

i ve here now a summer 07 pro book with TI but didnt test with motu yet.
while i was planing to give it back (no prob) and get a mid feb08 pro book with TI (vertified)

would you recomend not to go for the new model even with the TI ?