Novation Compact vs Novation Remote SL

[BouncyJones]

Hi,
I'm trying to decide between the Novation Compact and Novation Remote SL. The Novation Compact has fewer knobs, but is cheaper and smaller. Anyone have enough experience with midi controllers to know if I'd really need the extra faders and knobs that the Remote offers? I have no experience in this department, and just don't know if the 8 that come with the Compact would be enough or if I'd find myself wish I had more (especially for tweaking the EQ of stuff).
Cheers,
Jon

[jikky]

You are not limited to 8 knobs on the Compact. I have the 49 version compact. I can control all paramaters of eq and compression or even channel strips. The automap feature uses pages so it makes it very intuitive. For example, in a channel strip you have the compression section, eq section(s), and highpass lowpass filter sections. As well as output. Idk lets just say its 47 parameters. Well with the Novation you set it up in pages (not to be confused with templates).

First page compression section.
Knob 1-Ratio
...2-atk
...3-rls
...4-knee
...5-thres
...6-gain makeup
...7-pre/post switch

Scroll to the next PAGE for the high frequency eq
knob 1-freq
.... 2-q
.... 3-gain
.... 4-shelf/peak
.... 5- hf on/off switch

Scroll to next PAGE for the hmf, then next PAGE for lmf, the next PAGE for lf, then next PAGE for hpf/lpf, etc...


You can set it all up to be used with the knobs or the buttons as far as I can tell. It also controls your DAW totally.

The TEMPLATES are for use outside of the automap universal. I use everything within the automap universal and my plugs are already mapped. I did change the way my plugs displayed tho. The automap just puts them on there in like 30 pages if the plug has that many parameters. I delete that and set it up in an intuitive way for me. I set up a channel strip this way last nite. It took me about 30 mins only because it was my first time every doing it. Next time I'm sure it will be quicker. The compact can do all the same stuff as the regular sl. it just doesn't have the extra display, extra knobs, and faders. I hope you understand and I didn't overwhelm you.

[BouncyJones]

Originally Posted by jikkyboy11

extra knobs, and faders. I hope you understand and I didn't overwhelm you.

Not at all.
Very enlightening post. Big thanks.
The Compact is en route as we speak!
Cheers

[jikky]

Originally Posted by BouncyJones

Not at all.
Very enlightening post. Big thanks.
The Compact is en route as we speak!
Cheers

Kool let me know if u need any help with it and I'll try my best. Also the software has recently updated for support of Reason 4 and some other things. Be sure to go by the Novation site and get those files. They also released the template editor so download that too and you could create your own templated. I myself control everything in the automap universal which is template 38. Anyway hit me or post in this thread when/if u need any help. I subscribed to it so I'll get an email if u do. Peace.

[dantheman65]

How are the keys on it? I've been looking to pick one up but the playability of the keys worries me.

[jikky]

The keys feel good to me. Similar if not better than the Axiom 61 I had previously. Only thing is that it's 49keys. I'm octave shifting a lot more than im used to. I don't play tho. I am slowwwwwwly learning.

[Mr.Pibb]

Hey, just got myself a Novation Remote 25SL Compact and the included CD-ROM does not come with the Universal Automap software, Tutorial Videos, nor .pdf Guide. What gives?

[BouncyJones]

Just got the Compact in the mail today. It's a lot more complicated than I originally imagined. I'm gonna have to go by the Novation site to see what they have linked up with Logic because it doesn't seem to be working properly.

To jirkyboy – what DAW are you using?

Cheers,
Jon

Edit – to Dan the man, the keys don't feel that great (from a pianist's perspective), but they are solid and I don't worry about them breaking.

[jikky]

I'm using Cubase 4 and soon to be PTLE. Sry for the late reply

[themixtape]

Novation Remote SL Compact 25 Review

I had this for about five days before returning it to the online retailer I bought it from...

Usually, I stand fully behind Novation's products. I owned a Nova IIx which to this day, is still my favorite virtual analogue synth.

But these Remote SL controllers...

Everyone raves about the automap stuff. Sure, it's a nice idea, when it works. But there is one word I can use to describe the Compact SL (and the regular Remote SL) and that is convoluted.

Before I get into the convoluted menu system, let me talk about the feel of the controller.

Trigger Pads

The drum pads SUCK. As a Remix magazine reviewer pointed out, the pads on these things are really thin, and you can feel the sensor underneath... they're very hard/thin and very uncomfortable to play.

Here's another thing about the pads - when triggering anything, sometimes certain notes sustain too long... and if a pad did it, a key would do the same thing (even though the key didn't at first, before you hit that same midi note that's attached to the pad). Bizarre, but true, and it did that no matter what VST I was controlling, and in what host.

Overall, I think the pads are pointless. Sure, you can store 3 banks of pads making the number 24 total, but the convoluted menu system makes it take forever to make the pad do what you want it to... it's a lot of button-pushing and knob-twisting to get to the parameter you want.

Key Feel

Yes, this is Novation's strong suit. They always use a good-quality keyboard or plastic so it doesn't feel like a toy like the M-Audio stuff. However, I found on the Remote Compact (and the regular one that I tried out at a store - they didn't have the Compact out) that the key "throw" (distance between pressing it and where it stops) was a little too wide... it felt to me like the keys were being pressed down further than they needed to be. Just tapping in some beats on the keys turned out to be a pain in the butt and not too "easy" or fun, because of the long key throw.

The Convoluted Menu System

Even though I read the manual for weeks before I bought it (and for hours after I had it connected), I still found the menu to be a pain in the butt to navigate.

One of my main gripes is when I tried to change the parameters of a knob, the menu would change to a different page. It's like I could only change the parameter by increasing data, not decreasing. Decreasing (turning the knob counter-clockwise) would change the page I was on. The manual doesn't mention this at all, and this was a common glitch on any VST I used, even the simplest ones... your basic ADSR envelope, or cutoff/reso tweaks.

Button assignments were also a pain... there were plenty of pages I would navigate to where the screen would simply turn blank... or maybe the first two pages were blank, then the parameters were on pages 3 and 4... which of course, is stupid, because if a VST only has a few buttons/switches, why aren't they on page one, and why are they spread across two pages, and on the last few?

Parameter numbers also didn't match... like say there were three choices in a parameter - triangle, sawtooth, sine... the Novation's LED would read "31, 32, 33" Who is going to keep track of matching a generic number like that to a parameter like "Sawtooth"? I don't have the time to remember that 33 means Sine, in my VST. I could look at the screen, sure, but if I'm spending time doing that, then why not just click the mouse?

Automap

I'm no expert in controllerism but I know how to assign CCs and stuff like that (I've been using MIDI for about 15 years now). I don't think the $300 price tag is worth it for the Compact's Automap feature (which most people are buying it for), especially when Automap works half-assed on 80% of my VSTs... to me, I find it faster to manually assign the most tweaked parameters using my E-mu Xboard 49's 16 knobs, and the MIDI Learn function (or MIDI map) in all my VSTs. Half the time, Automap didn't even put the most-used parameters on early pages... cutoff and reso on a bunch of them were on page 3, far right knobs). It's a nice idea in theory, but I think it still needs a lot of work.

Oh, I should also mention that I had the latest everything (latest firmware for the Remote, that I downloaded and installed from the Novation site), and Automap 2.0 which I also downloaded. Same problems, same annoying stuff.

Automap did work pretty well on certain, simpler VSTs... but most of them... lots of button-pushing and navigating just to find the parameter I wanted... it would have saved half the time if I just clicked on the knob on the VST with the mouse and dragged my mouse up and down. Not exaggerating about that, either. Cutoff and reso would be on the screen, but in the Novation Automap, it would be on knob page 3.

HOWEVER...

When this new Nocturn comes out.... I'm thinking of buying one, because for some reason, the Nocturn's manual reads far more clearly than the Remote SL Compact's, and it seems like the Nocturn is the perfect match for Automap, since you do everything onscreen (with a full window) as opposed to some thin, wide LED. Time will tell... but if the price is around $100 (as it's supposed to be when it comes out), that might be pretty damn cool.

Summary

Novation tried to squeeze too much functionality into one controller, which of course, makes for a confusing controller. I made the following purchases instead, when I sent the Remote SL Compact 25 back--

Korg PadKontrol
I had an M-Audio Trigger Finger before, which I found boring and a pain to tweak. The PadKontrol is a joy to use, and the pads feel fantastic. The lights are the icing on an already-perfect cake. A quick search on Youtube finds that many people are using the PadKontrol in their home studios, for controlling their DAWs and their VSTs. I'm glad I picked this one up, and plus, a free, assignable XY pad? You can't beat that deal.

M-Audio Keyrig25
I've read bad reviews on this, but this is the controller I was looking for when I purchased the Remote SL Compact. Sure, the menu system is more simple, and you can only store 5 scenes/presets (and it's got the weird push-button Mod and Pitch Bend as opposed to a wheel or joystick) but it's easy to program, insanely portable (big factor there... I sometimes write music in the cafes at Barnes and Noble and Borders, and the Remote wasn't as compact as I'd liked - this thing fits perfectly in my small, thin backpack)... the keys have a shorter throw (I like this, it's just like the Edirol PCR M1s that are no longer available) which makes this thing really flat... 8 knobs and 8 buttons that are fully and easily assignable.... plus a very decent-sounding 4-part VST (piano, organ, GM module and polyphonic synth)... all for $100.

So yeah... hope this information was helpful. Sorry if the review seems confusing... I woke up not too long ago and have to teach a couple guitar lessons in about 15 minutes... just wanted to inform all of you, since there's hardly any reviews on the Compact SL out there.... best advice I can give is to research any piece of gear fully before you buy it. And sometimes, paying more for something doesn't mean it's better... that's almost never true, but it was in this case. I'm waiting for the Nocturn.

Thanks,
Chris

[Sky]

Thanks Chris for your detailed SL review. I test drove a Remote25 and had similar opinions about key action and pads. In comparison, the new Akai MKP49 feels great but is a bit too big for the desktop and no HUI to my knowledge. Sky

[lips]

the remote SL series (not compact) have HUI support.
dont know about the compact but as it is the same software id assume that it has HUI..

[jikky]

yes the compact has hui support too

[teuron]

Originally Posted by jikky

Kool let me know if u need any help with it and I'll try my best. Also the software has recently updated for support of Reason 4 and some other things. Be sure to go by the Novation site and get those files. They also released the template editor so download that too and you could create your own templated. I myself control everything in the automap universal which is template 38. Anyway hit me or post in this thread when/if u need any help. I subscribed to it so I'll get an email if u do. Peace.

hey,

i just bought the compact 49, and had a couple of questions for u.

for a logical layout of most used parameters... is it best to erase whatever automap3 automatically assigns to a vsti and start from scratch within that vsti? or just overwrite whatever is currently set with what i want?
and what is the best way to do this.... using the learn mode of automap3?

im trying to set up all my vstis to have most responsive parameters on the first few pages (so filters on group a, envelopes on group b, etc...)

also, will automap automatically remember all my adjustements for each vsti? or do i need to save that somewhere?

one last thing... when i was choosing which plugins i want to be wrapped, i did not select the box that asked whether i want the Automap UI to be applied to each plugin and i guess that is why i do not see the automap crosshairs and learn section in each plugin.... how do i go back to that screen and reselct that option? (as well as adding new plugins to be wrapped)

thanx in advance.

[jikky]

Originally Posted by teuron

hey,

i just bought the compact 49, and had a couple of questions for u.

for a logical layout of most used parameters... is it best to erase whatever automap3 automatically assigns to a vsti and start from scratch within that vsti? or just overwrite whatever is currently set with what i want?
and what is the best way to do this.... using the learn mode of automap3?

im trying to set up all my vstis to have most responsive parameters on the first few pages (so filters on group a, envelopes on group b, etc...)

also, will automap automatically remember all my adjustements for each vsti? or do i need to save that somewhere?

one last thing... when i was choosing which plugins i want to be wrapped, i did not select the box that asked whether i want the Automap UI to be applied to each plugin and i guess that is why i do not see the automap crosshairs and learn section in each plugin.... how do i go back to that screen and reselct that option? (as well as adding new plugins to be wrapped)

thanx in advance.

I make my own custom templates for each plugin. So I started from scratch for each plugin. I actually use it more for my mixing plugins and not so much so for VSTi. Usually for mixing plugins you have less parameters so you can make a logical layout for similar plugins. With VSTi you have over 128 parameters to possible choose from which is daunting when trying to setup a template that will work in every situation. I recommend finding maybe the top 8 or top 16 and use those parameters across the board on VSTi and mouse for the rest.



I use the learn on the actually hardware. I clear the parameters, B4 takes
you to the menus to do that. I also have it figured out before hand what I want to control. I turn the learn to Learn All or Learn On (can't remember the name and learn the parameters in the order I want them to appear on the knobs and buttons) On the boarder of the interface there's a button to switch between a knob or button mode. U can also make a Knob switch like a button by setting the numbers lower. If there are 4 switches on a button it looks something like 0,3 in the boxes (sorry not infront of my equip so alot may be ammended) and the switches are 0,1,2,3 for the 4 toggles.



Setting up your VSTi for the most responsive parameters is easy if you pre-plan. Just know what parameters on the interface you have to learn and learn them to the Remote. You can either learn once, or lock the learn on to do multiple parameters at one time.



Yes automap should, but I save mine as well. It should be a save function in the border of the plugin. (Again not in front of my equip so it might have to be ammended)



You have to open up Plugin Manager and check the box. It's in your start menu in the Novation folder. I recommend putting Plugin Manager, Launch Server (for the automap server), and Remote Compact SL Editor on the desktop.

[teuron]

thanx for your help.

im mostly interested in vsti control. not so much in mixer.

just to confirm, i can just use preset 38 for all my vstis, correct?

all i want to do is setup and control all my vstis in a fashion where i open up a vsti and the knobs are assigned to common parameters (so bank A will always be filters regardless of vsti, bank b envelopes, etc...)

how do i clear the auto assignments?

[jikky]

Originally Posted by teuron

thanx for your help.

im mostly interested in vsti control. not so much in mixer.

just to confirm, i can just use preset 38 for all my vstis, correct?

all i want to do is setup and control all my vstis in a fashion where i open up a vsti and the knobs are assigned to common parameters (so bank A will always be filters regardless of vsti, bank b envelopes, etc...)

how do i clear the auto assignments?

Yea you can use 38 for it.


You can set all your vsti up to do that. Umm I thinkyou push B4 when you have your DAW open and VSTi loaded. Then look on the screen for clear all. It'll be one of the top buttons below the encoders.

[saovi]

Currently own a older version ReMOTE 37SL basically to have additional faders to send midi cc# for mockup expression etc for sampled symphonic libraries and as a second keyboard to my main 88 key controller. Had the universal automap online but later disabled it because it didn't actually work well with my work flow. Fast action keyboard - very expressive. I wish the drum pads were like that though - my old Korg padKONTROL completely destroys it which makes the drumpads on the Novation seem more of an afterthought than anything else.

Programming the faders for cc assignments is not quite as intuitive as I would have thought - not like the Korg for example. If you accidentally close the window which has the automap fader window on it, my experience is that nothing I do can restore it unless I reboot Logic which sucks to be honest - or according to Novation, you have to upgrade to the "Pro" version. No thanks.

I don't want to seem overly negative - I like the keyboard as its perfect for remote laptop sequencing and is a good second keyboard which is sensitive (a good thing) with a lot of faders you can program to either CC assignments or in Universal Automap mode.

[rids]

Anyone think Novation is delaying the SL mk2 release? It was supposed to be out. I wonder if they will add a 2nd screen. If they did, I wouldn't see any reason not to upgrade my SL37 (besides there is no 37 key ).

[DanRock101]

Great thread here guys! I currently have a Roland Midi Guitar & M-Audio 61-Key controller, but it's LIMITED parameter-wise.....

I plan to get SOME kind (another) of midi controller for Logic AND Vienna Symphony and I don't know what would be best.... will report back!

[amadeus303]

Hey all --- sorry to rehash an old thread. I'm new to the forum and have decided to pick up a new controller to use with Reason. I've decided on a Novation ReMote, but I'm still torn between a Compact or an MKII.

• Is there anything I can do on the MKII that I won't be able to do on the Compact? Do the add'l knobs etc. on the MKII make it *that* much easier to adjust settings on the fly?
• Can I run Automap 3 on a compact or only Automap Universal? Is there a huge difference between the two versions? Novation wouldn't respond to my emails.
• Anyone know if Novation has any plans to come out with a 61-key compact? While I'd be using this primarily for electronic music, I'm also a piano player, so I'd love the flexibility of the extra keys.

Ultimately, I'm torn between a great deal on a Compact 49 and a so-so deal on an MKII 61. I know there's a BIG price difference... and that's not the issue. I know I have to decide if the difference is "worth" it to me... but I'm unsure if what the significant differences are at this point.

Apologies in advance if this has been covered somewhere else. When I ran my searches, this was the only thread that really seemed to address my questions...

[superman2107]

Hi there!

I have a question. You know I have a oberheim- matrix1000 and waldorf- microwave But without the controller, its a nightmare to do that editing. so I'm thinking about to get a midi controller able to control them. any idea which one is better? ? I'm thinking to get "xboard25" "novation remote SL 25" or "peavey PC1600" I heard "control freak is good as well?? Thanks!!!

Originally Posted by themixtape

Novation Remote SL Compact 25 Review

I had this for about five days before returning it to the online retailer I bought it from...

Usually, I stand fully behind Novation's products. I owned a Nova IIx which to this day, is still my favorite virtual analogue synth.

But these Remote SL controllers...

Everyone raves about the automap stuff. Sure, it's a nice idea, when it works. But there is one word I can use to describe the Compact SL (and the regular Remote SL) and that is convoluted.

Before I get into the convoluted menu system, let me talk about the feel of the controller.

Trigger Pads

The drum pads SUCK. As a Remix magazine reviewer pointed out, the pads on these things are really thin, and you can feel the sensor underneath... they're very hard/thin and very uncomfortable to play.

Here's another thing about the pads - when triggering anything, sometimes certain notes sustain too long... and if a pad did it, a key would do the same thing (even though the key didn't at first, before you hit that same midi note that's attached to the pad). Bizarre, but true, and it did that no matter what VST I was controlling, and in what host.

Overall, I think the pads are pointless. Sure, you can store 3 banks of pads making the number 24 total, but the convoluted menu system makes it take forever to make the pad do what you want it to... it's a lot of button-pushing and knob-twisting to get to the parameter you want.

Key Feel

Yes, this is Novation's strong suit. They always use a good-quality keyboard or plastic so it doesn't feel like a toy like the M-Audio stuff. However, I found on the Remote Compact (and the regular one that I tried out at a store - they didn't have the Compact out) that the key "throw" (distance between pressing it and where it stops) was a little too wide... it felt to me like the keys were being pressed down further than they needed to be. Just tapping in some beats on the keys turned out to be a pain in the butt and not too "easy" or fun, because of the long key throw.

The Convoluted Menu System

Even though I read the manual for weeks before I bought it (and for hours after I had it connected), I still found the menu to be a pain in the butt to navigate.

One of my main gripes is when I tried to change the parameters of a knob, the menu would change to a different page. It's like I could only change the parameter by increasing data, not decreasing. Decreasing (turning the knob counter-clockwise) would change the page I was on. The manual doesn't mention this at all, and this was a common glitch on any VST I used, even the simplest ones... your basic ADSR envelope, or cutoff/reso tweaks.

Button assignments were also a pain... there were plenty of pages I would navigate to where the screen would simply turn blank... or maybe the first two pages were blank, then the parameters were on pages 3 and 4... which of course, is stupid, because if a VST only has a few buttons/switches, why aren't they on page one, and why are they spread across two pages, and on the last few?

Parameter numbers also didn't match... like say there were three choices in a parameter - triangle, sawtooth, sine... the Novation's LED would read "31, 32, 33" Who is going to keep track of matching a generic number like that to a parameter like "Sawtooth"? I don't have the time to remember that 33 means Sine, in my VST. I could look at the screen, sure, but if I'm spending time doing that, then why not just click the mouse?

Automap

I'm no expert in controllerism but I know how to assign CCs and stuff like that (I've been using MIDI for about 15 years now). I don't think the $300 price tag is worth it for the Compact's Automap feature (which most people are buying it for), especially when Automap works half-assed on 80% of my VSTs... to me, I find it faster to manually assign the most tweaked parameters using my E-mu Xboard 49's 16 knobs, and the MIDI Learn function (or MIDI map) in all my VSTs. Half the time, Automap didn't even put the most-used parameters on early pages... cutoff and reso on a bunch of them were on page 3, far right knobs). It's a nice idea in theory, but I think it still needs a lot of work.

Oh, I should also mention that I had the latest everything (latest firmware for the Remote, that I downloaded and installed from the Novation site), and Automap 2.0 which I also downloaded. Same problems, same annoying stuff.

Automap did work pretty well on certain, simpler VSTs... but most of them... lots of button-pushing and navigating just to find the parameter I wanted... it would have saved half the time if I just clicked on the knob on the VST with the mouse and dragged my mouse up and down. Not exaggerating about that, either. Cutoff and reso would be on the screen, but in the Novation Automap, it would be on knob page 3.

HOWEVER...

When this new Nocturn comes out.... I'm thinking of buying one, because for some reason, the Nocturn's manual reads far more clearly than the Remote SL Compact's, and it seems like the Nocturn is the perfect match for Automap, since you do everything onscreen (with a full window) as opposed to some thin, wide LED. Time will tell... but if the price is around $100 (as it's supposed to be when it comes out), that might be pretty damn cool.

Summary

Novation tried to squeeze too much functionality into one controller, which of course, makes for a confusing controller. I made the following purchases instead, when I sent the Remote SL Compact 25 back--

Korg PadKontrol
I had an M-Audio Trigger Finger before, which I found boring and a pain to tweak. The PadKontrol is a joy to use, and the pads feel fantastic. The lights are the icing on an already-perfect cake. A quick search on Youtube finds that many people are using the PadKontrol in their home studios, for controlling their DAWs and their VSTs. I'm glad I picked this one up, and plus, a free, assignable XY pad? You can't beat that deal.

M-Audio Keyrig25
I've read bad reviews on this, but this is the controller I was looking for when I purchased the Remote SL Compact. Sure, the menu system is more simple, and you can only store 5 scenes/presets (and it's got the weird push-button Mod and Pitch Bend as opposed to a wheel or joystick) but it's easy to program, insanely portable (big factor there... I sometimes write music in the cafes at Barnes and Noble and Borders, and the Remote wasn't as compact as I'd liked - this thing fits perfectly in my small, thin backpack)... the keys have a shorter throw (I like this, it's just like the Edirol PCR M1s that are no longer available) which makes this thing really flat... 8 knobs and 8 buttons that are fully and easily assignable.... plus a very decent-sounding 4-part VST (piano, organ, GM module and polyphonic synth)... all for $100.

So yeah... hope this information was helpful. Sorry if the review seems confusing... I woke up not too long ago and have to teach a couple guitar lessons in about 15 minutes... just wanted to inform all of you, since there's hardly any reviews on the Compact SL out there.... best advice I can give is to research any piece of gear fully before you buy it. And sometimes, paying more for something doesn't mean it's better... that's almost never true, but it was in this case. I'm waiting for the Nocturn.

Thanks,
Chris