important question about vocals.. could it be the compressor?

[activexjava]

Hello all ..
I have a question about vocal tracks ... lead vocals in particular ..

I got some pro recordings to experiment mixing using my setup:

Sonar 7 with Waves + URS + Sonalksis plugins
Yamaha O1V96 V2 (with mastering plugins) going to my computer using 3 ADAT connecting to RME 9652 card
my pre is Chandler Tg2 and my mic is AKG C414 XLS ..
Reverb is Lexicon PCM91 ..
my recording booth is self made .. 6 movable wooden walls 2X6 containing Roxul its not bad for recording .. my control room is not bad either .. I have acoustic treatment installed in it ... its a basic home studio for a starter...

anyway .. my question is this .. and I believe lots of poeple have will get the initial result that I am getting ... from the mic -> preAmp -> converter -> file in your computer.

I listen to the recordings that I have in the pro tracks (different artists that used different setups .)... and compare with my recordings .. there is of course a difference ...and I am trying to figure out if there is a common processor that all those recordings have gone through to get that "sound".. the characteristic of the final sound is common to all the recordings in this way :

1- the pro track is compressed of course .. volume seems less than mine .. or lets say .. less energy .. but the sound is clear ..
I guess some of the sound components were reduced using EQ ...
the sound simply is very polished ...

I use my plugins to process the sound .. Waves EQ .. URS compressor ... tried different things ... but I am not in the same league as the pro recordings .. not sure what to do ...

I am sounding stupid in my question .. I am wondering if I need to buy a hardware compressor or a hardware EQ ... to get that sound ?...

what am I missing in my setup?????

I appreciate your valuable comments..

thanks
John

[larrygates]

A lot of the sound of the "pros" that you're speaking of has to do with distortion. Not the distortion you hear when you overload a signal, but subtle things that happen in analog gear, digital plugins that emulate it, and different mics and especially the pre-amps.

For instance, I have a MSS-10 mic pre (transformerless and very expensive). Compared to a 1073 Neve Mic Pre, my MSS-10 sounds way too smooth and doesn't have the bite of the 1073. So even though I have a mic pre that costs more, due to the fact that it's transformerless and very smooth in sound it doesn't "pop" like the 1073 because of the grit that is applied to any signal ran through it.

So to let most of the cat out of the bag, the sound you're looking to achieve isn't just waves compressors, URS EQ's, Sonalksis plugs alone. You would need other forms of distortion plugins, or overload some pre's or analog hardware, even your Yamaha A/D and you will have a world of difference.

I would treat the distortion as a before effect, then do all your normal compressing and Eqing after the fact.

Should get you closer to what you're looking for.

Let me know.

[dwaynedelario]

Agree with larrygates. I have had a lot of success tweaking the "driven tape" simulations of PSP's Vintage Warmer (though its a resource hog). There are, of course, other options...especially when you introduce analog inserts into your setup. Good luck!

[1/2 Normal]

Hardware comps are what you are looking for IMHO

In particular the Distressor is what I'm using, with its on board distortion it can really bring a vocal to life. I would recommend the Massey Tape Head but its RTAS only I think.

GL
Rob

[James Meeker]

I think the 414 may be part of the problem. Kind of a boring vocal mic. It always loses any mic shootout that I do against other mics, even dyanmics like the RE20.

[scifijedi]

be creative with your plugins........everybody says .......you need outboard gear to get that "sound" but that is not totally true.........outboard gear is the best sounding option yes, but you definately can get an adequate sound you should be proud of.with that nice gear you have i use logic 8......usually i have 2 tracks of the same vocals but the 2nd track comes in a cent or so after the 1st makes it sound full.......logic 7 had audio maximazation which made the audio selected sound like a fine preamp........but logic 8 audio is fully maximized now..........i usually use up to 14 diffent plugins on each track .........distortion ......stereo spread...up to 3 of the same limiters spaced randomly........telephone voice.......more delay......other stuff too.....a tube plugin......just figure out how to gain full control of the frequencies ......it doesn't hurt to have a really good itb compressor either ...........
go spend 5 gran on outboard gear and your still going to be doing alotta itb work because getting a great vocal sound is alot more complex than a neve and a distressor......eventhough you need those it's reverb that can really put your vocs in the mix.......and the delay to make it even bigger...try every single plugin you have.......sometimes a bass guitar plugiin is just what your needing...pay no attention to the name of the plugin......trust me,their all for vocals.....every last one.......most times i get a great vocal without even using an eq.....just a bunch of plugins that don't even apply to vocals.........it's rarely the same track to track and never the same from song to song..i kind of treat each plugin like a band on an eq and just start tweaking.....dam,there must be 5000 bands on this eq.....eeeow.............outboard gear is quicker and sounds better though......shoot for outboard gear eventually......but itb plugins are fun but seriously difficult.........by the way,i've tracked plenty of vocs with a martech mss10 and tweaked itb with great results........lots of times the mic and pre will pickup the vocal TOO much in the wrong way......make you sound like a highschool kid or something........then when you get it in the box you have to get rid of the frequency that is to high pitched and accentuate the mids........hard to explain on a forum..........that's why it's easier to just say " buy outboard gear " ,,,,,,,regardless of what crappy mic,shifty converters,out of phase this,or low end that,,,you can still tweak tracks......although recently i received a demo of a metal band that i was unable to tweak at all..........it was like a ghost song.....uneffected by my eqs.....strange...... anyway, good luck

[activexjava]

Originally Posted by Brownsound

Oh, and by the way, what's so "important" about your (stupid) question?

I appreciate the replys I am getting .. my setup is more or less common to a lot of people .. I had a different setup before .. really small .. and I believe I am not seeing night and day yet .. I guess a lot of folks will get the raw sound that I am getting .. and with only plugins .. not sure how far can that go ....


if you have my set up (good pre - converters - mic - reverb - good plugins .. what else???) ... which peice would you get for a better vocals??....

[scifijedi]

what kind of vocals????????

[scifijedi]

i'm sure your singer is fine.....you can make the crappiest of singers sound good in the box.............or adequate,anyway.......get the chandler germ compressor...then you can split the tg power supply..