PT 7.4 LE - Can elastic audio quantise multitrack drums?

[Chevron]

Would having the new elastic audio feature negate the need for multitrack beat detective in PT LE??

[Stiff]

Beat detective have actually been updated so Digidesign don't seem to think so! Haven't tried any multitrack drum editing with EA myself though.

[tamasdragon]

It will be interesting to see what will happen. With elastic audio, you can quantize multitrack drums very fast. But only experiment will tell us if we can leave beatdetective behind. Think of really bad drummer, or real complex rythms and corrections, we may still need the improved beatdetective. I think we have to wait approximately a month to know this. At that time many serious user will have 7.4 on their machines, learned the new features, and tried them, so we will know...
Tamas Dragon

[Chevron]

How has beat detective been updated..?

[tamasdragon]

Originally Posted by Chevron

How has beat detective been updated..?

from the pdf file: Beat Detective Enhancement
Beat Detective includes the new analysis option,
Enhanced Resolution, which is suitable for a
wide range of audio material. Additionally, Enhanced
Resolution is now the default analysis
option for Beat Detective. Because of the complexity
of the algorithm, Enhanced Resolution
may take a little longer to analyze audio than
the High Emphasis or Low Emphasis options.
For audio material in higher frequency ranges,
the High Emphasis option may produce better
results. For audio material in lower frequency
ranges, Low Emphasis may produce better results.
However, Enhanced Resolution is likely to
produce the best results for the widest variety of
audio material.

Tamas Dragon

[macleodgrant]

i'd say the enhanced resolution is a feature they included which is used by EA for detection

[Tony Shepperd]

EA can quantize drums.
It works different than Beat Detective, but it can work in the Warp Feature.

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

EA can quantize drums.
It works different than Beat Detective, but it can work in the Warp Feature.

Yeah I think with some careful tweaking it could work. I messed around with it a bit, but I just found myself saying "man I can do this faster/better with BD".....mostly cause I am not fluid with EA yet....

Would be interesting to hear someone make an example of BD and EA and compare....

[barryjohns]

Man this thing can quantize anything it seems. For fun, I used to quantize a Bass Track, 3 Guitar Tracks, even a guitar solo. Pretty cool......I didn't realize my timing was not so perfect

[RoundBadge]

Yes you can quantize drums ..way faster than beat raper .
Works just like quantizing midi..in real time..no fades,etc.
hit apply,adjust delays in the Ea plug window and your done.fast!
I've been using it to tweak and add swing to real multitrack drums.
So far,i'm loving it!
Haven't used BD once since I got EA going.
watch the videos on the digi site.super easy.thumbsup

[Rufuss Sewell]

Roundbadge, how do you make it so that PT prioritizes the kick over the high hat? The event markers appear at the kick on the kick track, and on the high hat on the overhead track. When the kick is slightly ahead of the high hat, the transient for the kick is before the warp marker, and subsequently gets stretched and turned to mush. If I could get the warp markers to automatically grab the kick event marker everything would be cool.

Preferably I'd rather the warp markers only appear on the kick, snare and toms.

Any clues?

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Yes you can quantize drums ..way faster than beat raper .
Works just like quantizing midi..in real time..no fades,etc.
hit apply,adjust delays in the Ea plug window and your done.fast!
I've been using it to tweak and add swing to real multitrack drums.
So far,i'm loving it!
Haven't used BD once since I got EA going.
watch the videos on the digi site.super easy.thumbsup

I retract my previous statement. I had no idea the Quantize window now worked for audio...that's amazing!!! I'll give it a try tomorrow for reals.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Roundbadge, how do you make it so that PT prioritizes the kick over the high hat? The event markers appear at the kick on the kick track, and on the high hat on the overhead track. When the kick is slightly ahead of the high hat, the transient for the kick is before the warp marker, and subsequently gets stretched and turned to mush. If I could get the warp markers to automatically grab the kick event marker everything would be cool.

Preferably I'd rather the warp markers only appear on the kick, snare and toms.

Any clues?

good question.must be a way to remove the hat when the program does the analyzing.
maybe a group w/out the hat for analyze..[like I do in BD..kick/snare group..] ..then an all drums group for the quantize move.gotta look into it
thanks,time to figure it out..thumbsup

[Tony Shepperd]

The really cool thing about it is you can create a template for drums.
If you analyze a good day of a the drummer and them Elastic Time the bad days, you will be able to have a more consistent drummers feel.

And if you really wanted to try and experiment analyze the way one drummer feels and lay that template on another drummer.

For instance: Good drummer, analyze Jeff Porcaro multitrack.
Lay it over on your cousin Larry's horrible playing.

[picksail]

The new Quantize features are incredible.

There used to be an allure to gridding drums with accuracy and finesse. What will we do now?!!!!

I love it.

[CaptainHook]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Roundbadge, how do you make it so that PT prioritizes the kick over the high hat?

Yes. Who can solve this for us..??

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

The really cool thing about it is you can create a template for drums.

How?

[Rufuss Sewell]

Any news yet? I'm still stuck.

[recall]

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Any news yet? I'm still stuck.

me too, anyone?

[ryst]

Originally Posted by picksail

The new Quantize features are incredible.

There used to be an allure to gridding drums with accuracy and finesse. What will we do now?!!!!

I love it.

I guess we will have to start using the words "accuracy and finesse" to describe how we want the drummers to play again.

[Rufuss Sewell]

I think I just figured it out. PT is grabbing the event marker that is closest to the beat. If a high hat is 10ms ahead of the beat, and the kick is 30ms ahead of the beat, PT places the warp marker on the high hat. The way to avoid transient mangling is to drag an early drummer back a few ms so that ALL of his hits are slightly behind the grid. Then PT will stretch the audio based on the first transient in the group thus sparing the the sound quality of all the transients.

Not as good as picking a master track, but it'll do for now.

[dcrann11]

I can't get my mind around this - how are you editing multitracked drums with room mics.

There is no collection mode obviously so how are you placing markers on say the hats, kick, and snare TOGETHER and grouping them all to affect the rooms?

[Rufuss Sewell]

That's basically the problem. PT analyses each track and assigns event markers to every transient. It properly gives different transients on each track. Then you highlight a section a hit quantize. PT automatically selects the closest event marker to the grid selection you made in the quantize window. It gives that event marker a warp marker. The warp marker is placed across ALL tracks in the group. Then it drags the warp marker closer to the grid depending on the strength you selected in the quantize window.

It actually works quite well so long as your drummer is slightly behind the beat. Unfortunately most drummers tend to play a bit fast. As a result several transients end up ahead of the warp marker and get mangled. Last night I dragged the entire performance so that it was a bit late, and the quantize function worked pretty much flawlessly since it worked on the first transient of the bunch rather than the last.

[Dick Veign]

I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but this is what i came up with:

1. Make a Drum Edit Group with all the drum tracks
2. Put an EA plug-in on all the tracks
3. Put all the tracks in analysis view
4. Delete all the event markers except for one kick mic (i used the Kick In)
5. Quantize - the kick will be quantized and all other kit mics will keep keep their relationship to one another

I haven't tried adding additional track yet, but i think the key is that at any one point in time there should be an event marker on only one track (the one with the instrument you are correcting at that point) and all other tracks in the edit group will keep their relation.

It beats the hell out of the old BD method, but I still can't help thinking there is a better way. Anyone?

[dcrann11]

DV - cool thanks - trying to quantize with markers on three different tracks at once (ie hats snare and kick) and was running into problems - not at my computer but I am assuming you can clear markers on mass (rather than having to go through and delete each one?)

[Dick Veign]

no problem man. yeah, you can select entire tracks and hit delete to clear all the edit markers. i have to say, i'm getting pretty stoked on this EA thing.

[recall]

So Dick,
by deleting all the markers on the other tracks they still get quantised but follow the bas drum markers? Is this correct?
If so well donethumbsup

[macleodgrant]

i've been thinking about the best way to do this and so far came up with something similar to DV

1) create drum group
2) insert EA plugin and choose correct algorithm for each track
3) select all tracks and open elastic properties
4) decrease sensitivity until all event makers are gone
5) deselect the group and select snare and kick drum tracks
6) in elastic properties window, increase sensitivity until all necessary event markers are in place
7) quantise
8) optimise EA settings for each track and reconsider algorithms

once i'm happy with the drum timing i'd then render using X-FORM which would yield the best quality. the real time algo's are processor friendly so won't be the best quality albeit better than live

this feature is absolutely brilliant and well conceived; if pro tools had ADC i'd probably have to switch from logic

[Dick Veign]

Originally Posted by recall

So Dick,
by deleting all the markers on the other tracks they still get quantised but follow the bas drum markers? Is this correct?
If so well donethumbsup

you got it, as long as it's in the same edit group it will follow.

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

i've been thinking about the best way to do this and so far came up with something similar to DV

1) create drum group
2) insert EA plugin and choose correct algorithm for each track
3) select all tracks and open elastic properties
4) decrease sensitivity until all event makers are gone
5) deselect the group and select snare and kick drum tracks
6) in elastic properties window, increase sensitivity until all necessary event markers are in place
7) quantise
8) optimise EA settings for each track and reconsider algorithms

once i'm happy with the drum timing i'd then render using X-FORM which would yield the best quality. the real time algo's are processor friendly so won't be the best quality albeit better than live

nice!! i figured i was overlooking something simple. excellent workflow!!!

[beechstudio]

Not sure if this is exactly what your looking for. But, check out this video from our own GS brother Kenny Gioia:

Pro Tools 6, 7, Beat Detective Training, Reason, Cubase SX Training Video CDs


Click on the: 'Beat Detective collection mode' video. Pretty cool!

[dcrann11]

Lifted straight from the DUC:

Step 1. Create a group containing all your drum tracks. Set the 'warp properties' to Rhythmic. De-select this group

Step 2. Create a drum group containing everything *other* than your kick & snare track track. De-select this group.

Step 3. Select your kick region.
Step 4: Choose 'Analysis view' for the track.
Step 5: Bring up your 'Elastic properties window' (Alt 5). You can leave this window open.
Step 6: Bring the event sensitivity down a little, but not so much that 'hit points' start disappearing from kicks.
Step 7: Option Click any 'extra hit points' that protools has generated my mistake to remove them

Step 8: Repeat steps 3-7 but with your snare region. This should leave you with *just* the kick & snare track analyzed.

Step 9. Select your 'Everything but the kick & snare' drum group, & click '0' in the event sensitivity box, in your (still open) elastic properties window. This makes sure that the remainder of your drum tracks contain *no* warp points. This is the vital step !

Step 10. Select your whole drum-kit group.

Step 11. Bring up your quantize window (Alt 0), & your good to quantize your drum kit, keeping all tracks in phase.





The manual points out that for the most part you should use warp view with sample based tracks and analysis view for tick based tracks