Thinking about 'tools.

Sirocco · 2nd May 2004

Hello, my name is Ali and im 17 from New Jersey, USA. I have been recording and producing music since I have been 13 and I just might jump onto the tdm train. vst and pc constraints of many forms have been holding me back, and bouncing back tracks has become a heavy and unrewarding chore. I have purchased many plugs, such as waves and many synths, but am barely able to use them on my 2.8 ghz cpu. Im talking 1024 mb ram here, and the waves and synthesizers cpu constraint is just eating most of the pie. Im seriously thinking about at this point, selling my only peice of gear (my motu 828MkII) and leasing a Dual G5 PowerMac with a heavy amount of ram. Then in the near future leasing a audio interface and core system. Do you think this is worth it, since this is my life, and am heavily into audio engineering and read several books about it. Just thinking about the power of tdm and the sheer amount of resources available for dynamic processors is amazing. Any opinions? I am just sick of everything about the PC. It constantly feels like its falling apart, I say.

C.Lambrechts · 2nd May 2004

my very humble opinion :

even with the biggest G5 loaded with ram and a HD 7 Accel you will end up banging your head against the wall because at some point you're either out of ram, or out of processor power.

why ? because that's what native and soft synths etc etc will do to you. A bigger processor and a more ram of course will get you further then you go know .... but being able to go further will make you want to go further becaus you can ... simple as that .... and once you do go further, you'll hit the wall at some point .... simple as that.

As for your choice of G5 and Core system, well I can only agree with that, because it is about the best you can go these days.

Just don't expect that all of your problems will be solved .... it will merely bring you a couple of floors up ... long way to the top.

carmen · 5th May 2004

i was a mac user all my life, well except for an Apple IIgs as a kid...used to use 'tools on a G3, but that was getting long in the tooth so 3 years ago i scrapped it for an AMD 1.4ghz, which at the time was running logic but now runs Samplitude on Windows 2003sp1. despite it being 3 years old and only costing 1/3 of what a new mac would have, it hasnt had any problems (ASUS mobo), hasnt been rebooted in 2 months (and only then to put in a PCI card) and still has plenty of performance overhead left over.....I'm not sure if its because samplitude is so lean on cpu compared to the alternatives like Nuendo (only running FX when the audio part is playing vs all the time, lower-cpu and better sounding mixbus, much faster/more flexible freezing) or because im compiling my custom sound engineering tools with VC2003 which is faster than even mingw gcc w/ all optimizations enabled...but the bottom line is i think if you have trouble finding a 2.8ghz pc adequate, its a usage issue not a computer one...possibly related to workflow, the software you are using, etc...and throwing more metal at it will not solve it..

hammer · 6th May 2004

You're running outta juice on a 2.8ghz p4?!! Me too!!

I find that the real hogs are reverbs and synths, take these out of the equation and life is peachy. Have you thought about getting a dsp based card to integrate into your system? If you got a creamware do-dad of some description, that should pretty much take care of the synth prob (The creamware synths are AWESOME!)- (Creameware cards are DSP based) and maybe a powercore to do the verb duties. I reckon that would do it. (For tonnes less than an HD system). Both of these cards integrate into your VST host.

Um If you have the shitz with your particular PC and want to go mac then go for it i guess. A couple of things tho, If your mac breaks you have to send it back to mac, which means downtime, If you have a pc it usually takes a couple of phone calls and it is fixed that day (If you know what you're doing). Also the G5 will be a bit quicker than what you have currently, but nothing earth shattering, if you do go HD you would possibly be better off sticking it in your pc.

As far as native processing goes, the undisputed king of the hill at the moment is contrary to popular belief, NOT the dual 2gig G5, but the dual Opteron from AMD. I believe BrianT has got one and may be able to shed a bit more light on it.

2nd May 2004	#1
Sirocco Lives for gear Joined: May 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,123 Thread Starter	Thinking about 'tools. Hello, my name is Ali and im 17 from New Jersey, USA. I have been recording and producing music since I have been 13 and I just might jump onto the tdm train. vst and pc constraints of many forms have been holding me back, and bouncing back tracks has become a heavy and unrewarding chore. I have purchased many plugs, such as waves and many synths, but am barely able to use them on my 2.8 ghz cpu. Im talking 1024 mb ram here, and the waves and synthesizers cpu constraint is just eating most of the pie. Im seriously thinking about at this point, selling my only peice of gear (my motu 828MkII) and leasing a Dual G5 PowerMac with a heavy amount of ram. Then in the near future leasing a audio interface and core system. Do you think this is worth it, since this is my life, and am heavily into audio engineering and read several books about it. Just thinking about the power of tdm and the sheer amount of resources available for dynamic processors is amazing. Any opinions? I am just sick of everything about the PC. It constantly feels like its falling apart, I say.

2nd May 2004	#2
C.Lambrechts Lives for gear Joined: May 2002 Location: Ans (Liege) Belgium Posts: 3,286	my very humble opinion : even with the biggest G5 loaded with ram and a HD 7 Accel you will end up banging your head against the wall because at some point you're either out of ram, or out of processor power. why ? because that's what native and soft synths etc etc will do to you. A bigger processor and a more ram of course will get you further then you go know .... but being able to go further will make you want to go further becaus you can ... simple as that .... and once you do go further, you'll hit the wall at some point .... simple as that. As for your choice of G5 and Core system, well I can only agree with that, because it is about the best you can go these days. Just don't expect that all of your problems will be solved .... it will merely bring you a couple of floors up ... long way to the top. __________________ Chris Lambrechts

6th May 2004	#4
hammer Gear maniac Joined: Dec 2002 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 164	You're running outta juice on a 2.8ghz p4?!! Me too!! I find that the real hogs are reverbs and synths, take these out of the equation and life is peachy. Have you thought about getting a dsp based card to integrate into your system? If you got a creamware do-dad of some description, that should pretty much take care of the synth prob (The creamware synths are AWESOME!)- (Creameware cards are DSP based) and maybe a powercore to do the verb duties. I reckon that would do it. (For tonnes less than an HD system). Both of these cards integrate into your VST host. Um If you have the shitz with your particular PC and want to go mac then go for it i guess. A couple of things tho, If your mac breaks you have to send it back to mac, which means downtime, If you have a pc it usually takes a couple of phone calls and it is fixed that day (If you know what you're doing). Also the G5 will be a bit quicker than what you have currently, but nothing earth shattering, if you do go HD you would possibly be better off sticking it in your pc. As far as native processing goes, the undisputed king of the hill at the moment is contrary to popular belief, NOT the dual 2gig G5, but the dual Opteron from AMD. I believe BrianT has got one and may be able to shed a bit more light on it. __________________ "Love one another and you will be happy. It's as simple and as difficult as that." -- Michael Leuning

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5th May 2004	#3
carmen Gear nut Joined: Aug 2003 Location: us Posts: 128	i was a mac user all my life, well except for an Apple IIgs as a kid...used to use 'tools on a G3, but that was getting long in the tooth so 3 years ago i scrapped it for an AMD 1.4ghz, which at the time was running logic but now runs Samplitude on Windows 2003sp1. despite it being 3 years old and only costing 1/3 of what a new mac would have, it hasnt had any problems (ASUS mobo), hasnt been rebooted in 2 months (and only then to put in a PCI card) and still has plenty of performance overhead left over.....I'm not sure if its because samplitude is so lean on cpu compared to the alternatives like Nuendo (only running FX when the audio part is playing vs all the time, lower-cpu and better sounding mixbus, much faster/more flexible freezing) or because im compiling my custom sound engineering tools with VC2003 which is faster than even mingw gcc w/ all optimizations enabled...but the bottom line is i think if you have trouble finding a 2.8ghz pc adequate, its a usage issue not a computer one...possibly related to workflow, the software you are using, etc...and throwing more metal at it will not solve it..