Audio Quantize

[jangoux]

I didn't take a deep look at Nuendo 4 feature set, but still i didn't find anything related to something similar to a Beat Dectetive function on this release. So, is it something that we should wait for the next version or i didn't look deep enough ?

Ivan

[soundslikejoe]

similar to Beat Detective?.... I guess you are fimilar with Hitpoints and Warp-tabs.

What can you do with Beat Detective that you can't do with those?

[redroom]

Originally Posted by joenovice

similar to Beat Detective?.... I guess you are fimilar with Hitpoints and Warp-tabs.

What can you do with Beat Detective that you can't do with those?

Beat detective can work acrosss multiple tracks at once
Also the Hitpoint engine in Nuendo/Cubase has never been very accurate

I still cannot understand why Steinberg have not got the hitpoints engine better and made it so it can work across a multiple track selection.Even being able to select hitpoints from one track and apply to another would be very helpfull.

[joris de man]

I reckon you can do this with the new project logical editor..perhaps not as slick as beat detective, but with some macro programming...
For example, cut up the first track with hitpoint editing, select other tracks, use project logical editor to make a cut and go to next selected part, make cut etc.

I'll have a look once I have my copy

[redroom]

Originally Posted by joris de man

I reckon you can do this with the new project logical editor..perhaps not as slick as beat detective, but with some macro programming...
For example, cut up the first track with hitpoint editing, select other tracks, use project logical editor to make a cut and go to next selected part, make cut etc.

I'll have a look once I have my copy

I have made a simple macro that arfter splitting up your Kik snare event can chop up the rest of your drums at the same point.However splitting the Kik snare is no good with hitpoints its just to inacurate.So the best way is to use strip silence.Also there is no interactive quantize on audio so you have to quantize hard.

[fatcat]

DAW designers just don't get it when it comes to drum editing and quantizing. It should be this simple: highlight all drum tracks and click quantize, then a window opens and asks how tightly to quantize(1/32, 1/16, 1/8 etc) and at what threshold to detect drum hits with an option to use all tracks highlighted as the key tracks, or just the kick or snare, or both. Most of us track drums to a click and the drummer is usually within a 1/16 note of the grid(early or late). We need one command, 2-3 check boxes, and align to grid. Internally it would auto crossfade while pulling the audio tracks back, not forward which exposes the hits we just moved...DUH. All this can be done manually in PT or Nuendo, with custom macros or a combination of tab to transient and pulling back audio then crossfading every beat, but come on guys(programmers), aligning the drums to the grid is one of the most common things we do nowadays. It should be very simple and effective. Beat Detective leaves all kinds of glitches so you might as well just go beat to beat with tab-to-transient, and Steinberg isn't even thinking about drum aligning. Hitpoints were designed for chopping up loops not aligning real drum tracks to the grid. We should be able to align the drum tracks to the grid in 2 or 3 steps with perfect results every time.

End Rant!

[miqer]

+1 for the rant!

If your drummer is not tight, you will have rsi

[soundslikejoe]

Maybe we should stop looking for magic buttons. Why is it the responsiblity of companys to create tools that remove the most basic drum playing REQUIREMENT; PUT IT ON THE ****ING BEAT!

It's the Britnay Spears effect.... No talent, no problem. Click this button and your rock-star dreams come true.

If a drummer sucks so bad that a few simple warps of a few hits can't fix it, tough. It shouldn't be the engineers job to make the drummer sound like John Bonham.

(I know all the whinning... "but I'll loose work" ... let's just leave this one here)

Rant over.....

[especht]

You could always use Beat Quantizer, although I too had hoped that this would be built into version 4.

[DSMrehearsal]

I tried the whole retime-ing thing drum wise for a couple of months but just ended up hating the loss of 'momment" none of the other tracks felt right afterwards; bass and guitar felt distant, and when the bass and gt's were recut to the edited drums, they just lacked any feeling. To be honnest I'm not really a fan of tracks being cut to a click - unless the band are really bad at keeping time.

[Sensual Ears]

Originally Posted by DSMrehearsal

I tried the whole retime-ing thing drum wise for a couple of months but just ended up hating the loss of 'momment" none of the other tracks felt right afterwards; bass and guitar felt distant, and when the bass and gt's were recut to the edited drums, they just lacked any feeling. To be honnest I'm not really a fan of tracks being cut to a click - unless the band are really bad at keeping time.

the best musicians in the world use clicks.

it has nothing to do with being bad at keeping time.

[soundslikejoe]

Originally Posted by Sensual Ears

the best musicians in the world use clicks.

it has nothing to do with being bad at keeping time.

That comment seems a bit biased toward a single style. There are many sessions that are NOT tracked with clicks.

Maybe YOU and all your sessions track to clicks.... not industry standard for all genres.

[TheRealRoach]

If a drummer sucks so bad that a few simple warps of a few hits can't fix it, tough. It shouldn't be the engineers job to make the drummer sound like John Bonham.

"Hey look over there!... I heard that guy's drum editing is WAY bonham-esque"

[reflexon]

Originally Posted by especht

You could always use Beat Quantizer, although I too had hoped that this would be built into version 4.

I have heard several references to this program. Their website has been down forever. Where can you buy this thing?????

[zuso]

well, I guess it's true, we have totally dove into a world of amazing tools to fix even the crappiest musicians...(which I must say, I get plenty of editing practice by just foolin' around with my own stuff...haha ;-) but as much as I love beat detective and just simply pocketing stuff by hand, I've always felt like the better nailed performances actually sound better a tad off, not computer fixed to the micro-level.

I know most people don't, but my dish is basically with the fact that you can listen to popular music today and just toss up a coin whether or not an actually drummer was used. sampling is getting better by the week and in a sense saddens me.

I wanted to say this in context with the points made above, but being that this is a forum dedicated to nuendo 4, I digress. and appologize.


as a nuendo 3 user, I am actually kind of interesting in playing around with the differences in the feature set of 4. mainly, I think I'm most interested in the new VST, and it's power and potential. I didn't really get to spend enough time at the steinberg booth at AES to talk to them about it, but the new layout and plugs look pretty zazzy.

anyone that's used 4 after being a 3 user....comments on anything drastically better? drastically worse?

or is everything basically more or less the same, but a bit better and a tad prettier?

cheers

[kt66]

I have only been using N4 for a couple days now but I will say that upgrading from N3 is a no-brainer IMO. The drag-n-drop movable inserts feature alone is worth the price of admission not to mention the free routing of groups/FX channels, side-chaining, and a new highly-sophisticated automation system along with many other new features we have been requesting for some time now.

[tomylee]

well if I´d be a sequencer manufactor, I would not make a product too good, always only so good, that you are able to make a visible step forward next time - I think they know we are missing audio quantisation sadly, but hey, waiting for xmas is also fun! - If I had a son, I would never buy him everything he wishes for xmas, that makes him happier in the long term

good night

[Flying_Dutchman]

Hi
its easier than beat detective, i think.
the nashville cubase guys have written it down, thanks for that.
Just a fast version from me:

Put the drum files into a folder. Export to stereo. Put a new track with the stereo export above this folder. Switch grid to events. Detect silence on the stereofile. switch to beats grid. Quantize the stereo file, the folder will follow.
If youre planing to pelace the drums, converting to midi with drumagog is much faster.

i hope this helps,
enjoy

[True North]

Originally Posted by Flying_Dutchman

Hi
its easier than beat detective, i think.
the nashville cubase guys have written it down, thanks for that.
Just a fast version from me:

Put the drum files into a folder. Export to stereo. Put a new track with the stereo export above this folder. Switch grid to events. Detect silence on the stereofile. switch to beats grid. Quantize the stereo file, the folder will follow.
If youre planing to pelace the drums, converting to midi with drumagog is much faster.

i hope this helps,
enjoy

Tried it - it works........sort of

Beat Detective, it aint'

[w_stylz]

Buy melodyne if you can afford it!! It will do what you want and many other things as well!!!

[intolerance]

I'm sure most of you can't help the paying 'talent' and need to meet deadlines where beat correction is necessary, perhaps even a must. But really... Are we just getting lazy enough to not record what's needed to begin with? If the drum track is that bad, why not just PROGRAM it?!

*thinking about hitting the record + play button at the same time to activate tape back in the day on a Tascam 4 track to capture a "performance".*

Just sayin'.

[slaves666]

I think the talent comment is valid, but not all of us get the opportunity to record seasoned musicians....therefore we need tools to make mediocre performances in to passable ones. Be it Autotune, Drumagog, Amp sims.....there are countless products out there to enhance a poor performance or recording.