Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac

[Stiff]

I like the idea of the cables, bet it wouldn't be as portable otherwise... That is a big deal to me, I even think the Mbox is to big at times.

[darkbass]

Can you please advise on how DUET interfaces with PRO TOOLS LE 7.3 + MBOX Pro?

thanx

RR

[fredrik@mi7]

Originally Posted by darkbass

Can you please advise on how DUET interfaces with PRO TOOLS LE 7.3 + MBOX Pro?

Well, it doesn't.

[Lwilliam]

By Max: "Finally the Duet breakout cable is covered under Apogee's warranty. As long as you refrain from using it as a cat o' nine tails to punish your fellow musicians for missing their cue, forgetting the lyrics, or putting yellow mustard on your pastrami sandwich, We dont forsee any problems."


What if I LIKE yellow mustard on pastrami?

Now mayonnaise on hamburgers....that's disgusting.



I think this is a great portable device. Of course, most of us wish it had balanced line in/out, a/c power, s/pdif, AES and word clock...and aren't those mostly the specs for the Rosetta 200 or the Ensemble?

[Schmacko]

Max,

How soon until the first shipments will be arriving to dealers?

[Nado]

I'm tipping the retailers will tack a huge markup on these here in Australia! (Like they usually do....) I might be better getting one sent over straight from the states, that way I'll only pay postage and exchange rate.
(After I wait to see if anyone has bugs and issues of course...lol)

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Fredrik

Digidesign are the ones that are excluding them selves by not suporting core audio like evryone else IMO.

True, but Digidesign does support AES/EBU, S/PDIF and ADAT optical. CoreAudio is just another standard.

It is safe to say that Digidesign is not concerned with supporting other audio interfaces, and Apogee is not concerned with Pro Tools users buying this product.

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

It's a smart and aggressive play to cut into the MBox market and lure potential customers over to Logic.

Perhaps. Or perhaps they're just saving a boatload in hardware costs by eliminating any stand-alone capability. No need for digital i/o on the unit or the breakout cable, no need for resolution or clock switches or indicators -- these and many other features are controlled strictly in software, which means you don't have to deal with user control in hardware. Just look at all the knobs and lights they didn't have to include. Remember, this thing (probably) sounds terrific and is less than 500 bucks!

I don't know that Duet competes in the same market as Mbox at all. Mbox is not an option for those who expect top sonic quality (in a single device), and Duet is not an option for those who want (effortless) compatibility with pro studios.

It will be nice if Apogee can replace their Mini line with a stand-alone box that incorporates the Duet/Ensemble preamp and converter technology. This would serve not only Digidesign customers, but also non-computer-based applications. And even for CoreAudio users, if you have multiple converters in the system, it's still simpler/better to use a single interface/driver than to use aggregated interface. I'd pay an extra $100 for the option to strap this thing onto a ULN-2, or Mbox, or Digi001/2/3, or Firebox ... it would still be a great deal at that price.

JSL

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by Max

There are some real advantages to the breakout cable. First, using a breakout allowed us to create an ergonomic interface that looks really great on your desktop. If the connectors were build in, Duet would not have this cool form factor. Once you hold a Duet and cable in hand and see how cool it is that you can literally fit it in your front pockets, you immediately get it.

Not to dog on your product or its design, Max, but the idea that this is good ergonomics is pretty silly. Duet only looks sleek and cool when it's in your hand. Once it's hooked up, it's still a bunch of cables sticking out, it's just through a breakout cable.

So the upshot is that the cool/sleek element is really just for the magazine ads, because unlike, say, an iMac, it isn't going to be particularly cool or sleek or ergonomic on anybody's desk. (For comparisons, consider the almost absurdly huge and boxy Mbox series on the one hand -- I've had apartments smaller than the Mbox 2 Pro -- or the Presonus Firestudio remote system on the other. On the whole, the Duet isn't doing too badly.)

This doesn't reflect badly on the quality of the product, at least not to me, it's just kind of amusing.

Totally agree on the stress relief part. As for the warranty coverage, that's only a comfort to me if Apogee is promising an aggressive advance-replacement policy on the breakout cable. Otherwise, as the earlier question suggested, first problem you have with any connector, your whole system is kaput. I will add that in the past, my experience with Apogee support has always been very good to excellent.

JSL

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by jslevin

True, but Digidesign does support AES/EBU, S/PDIF and ADAT optical. CoreAudio is just another standard.

Agreed. But my guess is that the objective was to bring high quality conversion at a low price by leaving out the options you mentioned. Core audio is what is used on the mac except by Digi after all.

[thermos]

Originally Posted by jslevin

Not to dog on your product or its design, Max, but the idea that this is good ergonomics is pretty silly. Duet only looks sleek and cool when it's in your hand. Once it's hooked up, it's still a bunch of cables sticking out, it's just through a breakout cable.


JSL

Man, totally have to disagree. The thing is SMALL, and thin. That means it fits basically anywhere. For traveling, the size is such a great thing. A breakout cable doesn't add much bulk to the traveling size, and I believe the tradeoff of how it looks on your desk is more than worth it. Not to mention, how much it brings the price down. I think it looks awesome.

[Schmacko]

Originally Posted by thermos

Man, totally have to disagree. The thing is SMALL, and thin. That means it fits basically anywhere. For traveling, the size is such a great thing. A breakout cable doesn't add much bulk to the traveling size, and I believe the tradeoff of how it looks on your desk is more than worth it. Not to mention, how much it brings the price down. I think it looks awesome.

+1

The breakout cable is a big selling point for me.

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by jslevin

I don't know that Duet competes in the same market as Mbox at all. Mbox is not an option for those who expect top sonic quality (in a single device), and Duet is not an option for those who want (effortless) compatibility with pro studios.
JSL

I think the Duet may be an option for those on a budget hoping to have the ability to record files that would even be worth transferring to a 'pro studio'. The Mbox most certainly is not.

Obviously the duet is the next addition in what will presumeably be an expanding line born of the Apogee/Apple partnership. I'm sure the exclusion of Digi compatibility is a deliberate move on the part of Apple.

Digi knows what's coming which is why they have mentioned a new version of LE that will bypass the hardware 'dongle' all together.

[smoore98]

I ordered mine from Mercenary today. Adam was very helpful and even called Apogee for me to get a couple of questions answered. I also ordered the carry bag that goes with it. Will report how it compares to the RME Fireface quality when I get it.

It is supposed to ship to me the last week in this month.

Scott

[Dr Gruv]

i also like the breakout cable - no issues....

max is 'kind of' ignoring my soft limit question... so as the speculative one in the group ;)

what if....

logic 8 lets you run plugs in line before it is tracked :) - just a guess - imagine the possibilities - pending the speed of your computer etc....

what do you think?

plausible?

-mike

[jacko]

Originally Posted by ToddS

Yes, Max from Apogee said as much earlier in the thread.

Duet.... all I can say is wow. First Ensemble, then Symphony, Symhony Mobile, now this? If Logic 8 ever comes out, its over.

APOGEE WINS!

I have been recording bands (mainly rock bands) for 10 years. 9 years in Logic and last year in Pro Tools. And I realize that there is no possibility of Logic being a replacement for Pro Tools. I wish it was...

[Duardo]

It's so scary good we just hope they don't build 8 and 16 channel units of it while we still have Rosetta-800's and AD-16x's and DA-16x's in stock!!!

Isn't that essentially what the Ensemble is?

Not only can't you use this as a stand-alone AD/DA, you can't even decouple the preamps from the converter (or interface) from what I can tell. Big F-U to Digidesign customers.

Why does that have to be considered an "F-U" to anyone? This is a relatively inexpensive box designed to do one thing. Adding digital I/O or any of the other things people want would raise the price. That's fine as some people would be willing to pay extra for those features, but the $500 price point is somewhat "magical" and to have a unit of this quality at that price point is great. The fact that it doesn't have digital I/O doesnt' meant that Apogee is saying "F-U" to anyone...it just means that this isn't a standalone converter.

Digidesign are the ones that are excluding them selves by not suporting core audio like evryone else IMO.

What exactly are they excluding themselves from? They're primarily a hardware company, so by not supporting core audio they are excluding everyone but themselves, which is what they want to do. Offerign Core Audio support for Pro Tools would certainly cut into their sales.

what if....

logic 8 lets you run plugs in line before it is tracked :)

Assuming you mean you could actually record the audio outpu of those plugins...why would you want to do that?

[Rev. Robb]

Originally Posted by Jazzpunk

Digi knows what's coming which is why they have mentioned a new version of LE that will bypass the hardware 'dongle' all together.

Can you point me to this information please.

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by Duardo

What exactly are they excluding themselves from?

They are excluding them selves from this perticular product being used with their app.

Originally Posted by Duardo

Offerign Core Audio support for Pro Tools would certainly cut into their sales.

So will this thing.

[Schmacko]

Originally Posted by Dr Gruv

what if....

logic 8 lets you run plugs in line before it is tracked :) - just a guess - imagine the possibilities - pending the speed of your computer etc....

what do you think?

plausible?

-mike

You mean recording plugin effects to disk? You can already do that. Just make an input object in the environment and insert the plugs you want on that input object channel. Last, set the output of the input object to the audio track you wish to record to. :)

[pro]

MBP already have Digital I/O, used with the Duet under an aggregate set-up gives you good I/O options. However, I need to know what are the technical trade offs of using core-audio under aggregate setups? added latency? less stable? added noise?


Duet is designed to be used in the wild? Single-ended interfaces have added noise and distortion introduced directly into the signal path. I have often had problems with, RFI EMI Ground-Loop with FW Devices on portables.


I gotta wonder???

[Jazzpunk]

Originally Posted by Rev. Robb

Can you point me to this information please.

Digi survey about new Mbox products...

[tengu]

Say I am using seperate converters for monitoring, configured in an aggregate device with the Duet. Are the outputs from the Duet capable of running a stereo buss into a hardware compressor?

Will the output level be strong enough for this application?

[dlmorley]

Originally Posted by jslevin

True, but Digidesign does support AES/EBU, S/PDIF and ADAT optical. CoreAudio is just another standard.

JSL

They don't for $500

[sigmatibet]

my setup with Duet is figured out as follows:

Cubase multi outs (Daw output) go to Dangerous 2busLT.

Dangerous 2busLT L-R mains go to Duet XLR inputs.

Duet goes back to computer via FW.

I monitor through Duet outputs.

in this case there's no need for digital I/O, since I go back to the box.

The only question is if Duet's quality is worth as it seems.

[eskay]

Originally Posted by pro

MBP already have Digital I/O, used with the Duet under an aggregate set-up gives you good I/O options. However, I need to know what are the technical trade offs of using core-audio under aggregate setups? added latency? less stable? added noise?


Duet is designed to be used in the wild? Single-ended interfaces have added noise and distortion introduced directly into the signal path. I have often had problems with, RFI EMI Ground-Loop with FW Devices on portables.


I gotta wonder???

Again I think they really missed the boat by not having the phones output be seperate from the main output. Max from Apogee says use the headphone out from your mac with the Duet using aggregated devices, but the phone output is not strong enough in a loud club environment to be heard. I'm talking about people using this in a live venue environment. Also using aggregated devices with G4 laptops has been pretty worthless. Some manufactures don't play well together and the latency is shit!!!!
Also I don't want the headphone output to use the same D/A as the main out. Yes I do want a good heaphone out, but I wouldn't mix on my headphones either. I'm sure 90% of the people wont. So for 100 or 200 dollars give us a "Live" version where we can have 4 outs.

[dlmorley]

then get an inline heaphone amplifer to boost the mac output.
What you want is understandable, but there are many solutions to your wishes. I would say before they fitted a second DA chip, they would fit Digital I/O anyway and that would suit many more people. But then it wouldn't cost what it does....

[eskay]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

then get an inline heaphone amplifer to boost the mac output.
What you want is understandable, but there are many solutions to your wishes. I would say before they fitted a second DA chip, they would fit Digital I/O anyway and that would suit many more people. But then it wouldn't cost what it does....

Ok, so list me the solutions.....
I don't want add an inline headphone amplifier, as this adds more things to get, not making it an ideal solution. I want an all in one solution. Adding a cheaper d/a output for heaphones is not something far fetched. Besides this is strongly needed for people doing voice overs or overdubs without needing an external console. If this is the ultimate road warrior as apogee is saying than a seperate headphone out is needed, not just for a live situation, but most importantly from a recording perspective. I travel a whole lot and to be able to record in the hotels will be amazing with this quality. A headphone out would make it that I don't need anything else when creating a cue out for the vocalist.
As to your solutions, have you used aggregated devices successfully? If you have, please specify exactly which interfaces with what software, cause for me it hasn't worked under real world situations.

[kmshroom]

Originally Posted by dlmorley

They don't for $500

Yes they do. The Mbox2 has digital...

[Fredrik]

@ eskey just get a passive headphone attenuator.