Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac

[WideawakE]

can you bypass the preamps of the Duet?

how do you guys do it? I already have a nice preamp with DI's that I will need for my MPC...can you turn them off or down all the way to where they are non-existent?

[duetbreakout]

thanks, im just waiting for a couple parts to come in so i can make more of them... hopefully by the end of this week. keep checking the website or sign up for the mailing list to know when they are ready.

thanks for all the comments

-mike

[TonyBelmont]

What a crazy thread... I can't believe this has reached almost 1,000 posts...

[Tui]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

What a crazy thread... I can't believe this has reached almost 1,000 posts...

You can say that again... I only had a look now, for the first time, to see what all the fuss is about. Apparently, I missed a PC v. Mac debate, amongst other things...

[Branjovi]

Originally Posted by WideawakE

can you bypass the preamps of the Duet?

how do you guys do it? I already have a nice preamp with DI's that I will need for my MPC...can you turn them off or down all the way to where they are non-existent?

yes. it explains this in the manual. just change the input settings in Maestro.

[Francis Vaughan]

Originally Posted by WideawakE

can you bypass the preamps of the Duet?

how do you guys do it? I already have a nice preamp with DI's that I will need for my MPC...can you turn them off or down all the way to where they are non-existent?

Yes. The PGA2500 has an internal bypass mode. When in bypass it does have substantially lower impact on distortion figures than if the amp is in the chain. The only true bypass would appear to be when using the +4dB setting.

[chk027]

Originally Posted by WideawakE

can you bypass the preamps of the Duet?

how do you guys do it? I already have a nice preamp with DI's that I will need for my MPC...can you turn them off or down all the way to where they are non-existent?

choose +4 in the drop down

Look at 4 minutes on the video

YouTube - Recording with Duet

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by WideawakE

can you bypass the preamps of the Duet?

how do you guys do it? I already have a nice preamp with DI's that I will need for my MPC...can you turn them off or down all the way to where they are non-existent?

Yes, there are 4 ways to input. Instrument, XLR Mic, XLR Line -10dBV, and XLR Line +4dBu

[x99]

Not really an important question, more just a curiosity:

In the quick start guide to set up the duet, when setting the duet as your sound output, the pic shows the question 'would you like to choose Duet (0174)......'

The pic for the system pref selection show 'Duet (0260)

and in my system pref I have a different number in the brackets.

Now obviously it's not critical to anything, so i'm really just curious as to what the number represents, as it is different to my serial #....

[desotoslo]

Did anyone else find the Duet to be a little big grating in the higher frequency range? I was listening on headphones to some well-recorded classical music, and I found flutes in particular to be unusually fatiguing. It was not an isolated incidence.

Would the Duet benefit from burn in time? At least the headphone amp section, perhaps? Though, I have also heard reports of it being fatiguing through monitors.

Maybe the real problem is I'm a double bass player.

Anyone?

[analog guy]

i'm considering purchasing a duet to go along with a planned mac pro purchase.

i want to locate the duet close to my primary audio system, where i will record 2-channel analog output. i'll have to run cables to my computer in another room (~40' away).

seems like firewire would be a fine, high-fidelity (=low/no error) way to go for the long cable run. (balanced is not an option for me at all.)

this may be a dumb question, but can the duet handle both of these functions:
1) take the analog input, convert to digital, and transmit to the computer via firewire (this one's obvious)
-and-
2) take a digital output from computer, convert to analog, and output to my stereo amplifier?

here's the catch: i'd like to leave the cables hooked up in this configuration without having to switch when recording vs listening.

i assume if i do this that i could monitor via my stereo while recording to computer.

thank you for the help. apologies if this is a dumb question.

my other option seems to step up and spend quite a bit more money for a rosetta 200, benchmark adc/usb, or similar, and i'm not sure that it's worthwhile.

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by analog guy

i'm considering purchasing a duet to go along with a planned mac pro purchase.

i want to locate the duet close to my primary audio system, where i will record 2-channel analog output. i'll have to run cables to my computer in another room (~40' away).

seems like firewire would be a fine, high-fidelity (=low/no error) way to go for the long cable run. (balanced is not an option for me at all.)

this may be a dumb question, but can the duet handle both of these functions:
1) take the analog input, convert to digital, and transmit to the computer via firewire (this one's obvious)
-and-
2) take a digital output from computer, convert to analog, and output to my stereo amplifier?

here's the catch: i'd like to leave the cables hooked up in this configuration without having to switch when recording vs listening.

i assume if i do this that i could monitor via my stereo while recording to computer.

thank you for the help. apologies if this is a dumb question.

my other option seems to step up and spend quite a bit more money for a rosetta 200, benchmark adc/usb, or similar, and i'm not sure that it's worthwhile.

Hi!

check this thread re: firewire length How long can a firewire cable be, without loosing signal?
but it looks to be OK to have it long. some seem to use a repeater...

to answer your questions

1) Yep, the ADC takes care of that

2) Yep again... DAC.

The Duet is basically the same thing as the Rosetta / Benchmark ADC/DAC whatever.

There are some little feature differences that set them apart, and of course the base quality of the conversion, but otherwise they are pretty similar.

The Duet has a handy feature in Maestro (the operating program for Duet) where you can mute the Line out (your speakers), while the headphones out is full on.

There is no separate monitor controller / head phone volume controller other than this little mute "trick". (Apparently it would have cost much more money for a separate on-board controller.)

In my opinion, track with headphones via this mute trick, and then do the mute trick again to play back through your monitors.



you hold down the big knob for 2 secs to engage the mute.


Hope this helps. Duet conversion is excellent for the money, and also just plain nice. I recently ran some Reason synth sounds out through Duet to my DAV BG-1, and back in through my Duet into Logic, and I really think it enlivened the sounds... the detail and quality remained, and was sauced up a bit by the DAV. I couldn't have gotten the same results with my old Ultralite, that's for sure.

Good luck

[mackstarr]

Has anyone here with the Duet had problems with distortion? I've read a few posts on line about a similar problem I have, where the Duet's output will start distorting in a digital bit crushed sort of way after a random period of time, the only fix is to open the audio/midi control panel and reset the Duet's sample rate. Some say it's incompatibility with external firewire devices, I've been able to reproduce the problem with no firewire device attached to the computer except for the Duet, I have a feeling it's more to do with 3rd party AUs and bad drivers on the Duet.

[desotoslo]

funny you should mention that because I just had that exact problem.

playback was 100% normal, but I was trying to record into Logic 8 via Duet and I kept getting clicks and sers.

I was thinkin "oh shit here we go". First I reset the Duet, and restarted Logic, but still got the same.

I ended up changing the I/O buffer size (lowered first, then raised) in Logic and it started working fine. Guess it just tripped a wire that needed tripping. However, I am not sure that the actual size I chose is important...

I didn't change the sample rate in audio/midi setup. but if it does that again, I'm going to try that first.

makes me glad for warranties.

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by mackstarr

Has anyone here with the Duet had problems with distortion? I've read a few posts on line about a similar problem I have, where the Duet's output will start distorting in a digital bit crushed sort of way after a random period of time, the only fix is to open the audio/midi control panel and reset the Duet's sample rate. Some say it's incompatibility with external firewire devices, I've been able to reproduce the problem with no firewire device attached to the computer except for the Duet, I have a feeling it's more to do with 3rd party AUs and bad drivers on the Duet.

I have never experienced this. I have had my Duet since November 2007.

[blayz2002]

Originally Posted by mackstarr

Has anyone here with the Duet had problems with distortion? I've read a few posts on line about a similar problem I have, where the Duet's output will start distorting in a digital bit crushed sort of way after a random period of time, the only fix is to open the audio/midi control panel and reset the Duet's sample rate. Some say it's incompatibility with external firewire devices, I've been able to reproduce the problem with no firewire device attached to the computer except for the Duet, I have a feeling it's more to do with 3rd party AUs and bad drivers on the Duet.

Think I might have had this problem once since April, when I changed buffer sizes in Logic 8. I think I ended up restarting the Mac. Other than that not one single issue.

[dougb415]

I'm going to be using a Duet w/ a 24" iMac and an external drive. The drive has USB 2.0 and Firewire 400/800. Should I hook up both devices via Firewire or should I connect the hard drive via USB?

[desotoslo]

Originally Posted by dougb415

I'm going to be using a Duet w/ a 24" iMac and an external drive. The drive has USB 2.0 and Firewire 400/800. Should I hook up both devices via Firewire or should I connect the hard drive via USB?

You can hook up both via firewire. I use my harddrive on the 800 and Duet on the 400, but I've heard you can even use an adapter from 400to800 for the Duet. (for that matter, USB would work too, but why use USB when you can use firewire:))

Also, the firewire 800 will run at 400 speed. If the firewire channel is split in two, the Mac automatically does this.

One note of caution: when unplugging a harddrive firewire 800 while the Duet is on... be careful. I did this once while the harddrive was unmounted but still on, and I got a lot of grungy static through the Duet as the power current changed. Best to turn off the harddrive before unplugging.


hope this helps.

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by dougb415

I'm going to be using a Duet w/ a 24" iMac and an external drive. The drive has USB 2.0 and Firewire 400/800. Should I hook up both devices via Firewire or should I connect the hard drive via USB?

Depending on your DAW you can run most sessions on your internal drive. I get 60+ track playback on my 5400RPM drive. I originally planned something similar to you, but now my external is just for Timemachine.

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by Dysanfel

Depending on your DAW you can run most sessions on your internal drive. I get 60+ track playback on my 5400RPM drive. I originally planned something similar to you, but now my external is just for Timemachine.

i can't do that even on an external 5400rpm drive which i use with my laptop

it depends on the bit depth you're recording at, the sample rate and whether your tracks are composed of many regions(edits) or one region

[blayz2002]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

i can't do that even on an external 5400rpm drive which i use with my laptop

it depends on the bit depth you're recording at, the sample rate and whether your tracks are composed of many regions(edits) or one region

Yeah but a internal drive would give you a faster throughput no?

So what would be better an internal 5400rpm or Firewire external 7200rpm?

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by blayz2002

Yeah but a internal drive would give you a faster throughput no?

So what would be better an internal 5400rpm or Firewire external 7200rpm?

i don't think so. the issue would be in the speed that the drive can spin at which is what it's capped at. the buss definitely wouldn't be the bottle neck.

an external firewire/usb 7200rpm would be much better than an internal 5400rpm also because the internal drive will also be used for virtual memory and reading of os & application files. an internal 7200rpm drive would be brilliant too

[Dysanfel]

Do a search on Gearslutz. There are screenshots of 80+ tracks playing back on internal 5400RPM drives on MBP @ 24bit 44.1k. I guess my point is unless your doing outrageous sessions your internal drive can handle 99% of your composition needs.

[Duardo]

Do a search on Gearslutz. There are screenshots of 80+ tracks playing back on internal 5400RPM drives on MBP @ 24bit 44.1k.

There are also plenty of instances of people having problems with less than half that many tracks once they start doing overdubs, edits, etc...

[YUGA]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

i don't think so. the issue would be in the speed that the drive can spin at which is what it's capped at. the buss definitely wouldn't be the bottle neck.

Actually it would, FW400's maximum transfer speed is 400Mbps (50MB/Sec) and faster 7200 rpm drives can go beyond 80MB/Sec. If you are using an MBP, getting an eSATA ExpressCard and connecting an HDD via eSATA is probably the safest bet. FW800 is fine too but note that the FW400 and 800 ports share the same internal bus (33MHz PCI bus) and the maximum bandwidth of this internal bus is 133MB/Sec. This means that you can't use the full bandwidth of both FW400 and 800 at the same time (50MB/Sec + 100MB/Sec =150MB/Sec).

If you're using a MacBook simply change the internal HDD to a 7200 rpm drive. Unlike MBPs it can be very easily done.

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by Duardo

There are also plenty of instances of people having problems with less than half that many tracks once they start doing overdubs, edits, etc...

I guess I must have a magic Mac.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by YUGA

Actually it would, FW400's maximum transfer speed is 400Mbps (50MB/Sec) and faster 7200 rpm drives can go beyond 80MB/Sec. If you are using an MBP, getting an eSATA ExpressCard and connecting an HDD via eSATA is probably the safest bet. FW800 is fine too but note that the FW400 and 800 ports share the same internal bus (33MHz PCI bus) and the maximum bandwidth of this internal bus is 133MB/Sec. This means that you can't use the full bandwidth of both FW400 and 800 at the same time (50MB/Sec + 100MB/Sec =150MB/Sec).

It's funny, you went and did all that math, but you didn't do the math to figure out that nowhere near that much bandwidth is required for hardly any recording application.

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

i don't think so. the issue would be in the speed that the drive can spin at which is what it's capped at. the buss definitely wouldn't be the bottle neck.

an external firewire/usb 7200rpm would be much better than an internal 5400rpm also because the internal drive will also be used for virtual memory and reading of os & application files. an internal 7200rpm drive would be brilliant too

Originally Posted by Duardo

There are also plenty of instances of people having problems with less than half that many tracks once they start doing overdubs, edits, etc...

Both these statements are based on serious misconceptions about drive speeds.

rpm is not a hard drive performance benchmark, it's just the rotational speed of the platter. It only has a direct relation to throughput when multiplied times the data density of the platter.

For example: a 200 GB platter spinning at 5400 rpm has the same theoretical max throughput as a 150 GB platter spinning at 7200 rpm.

And of course this is only one element of drive performance. The fact is, modern 5400 drives are significantly faster than 7200 drives were five years ago, when we all started insisting on using them, and their throughput is more than adequate for the great majority of applications, certainly for home recording.

The bottom line is that it's foolish to think of all 7200 drives in one speed class and all 5400 drives in another speed class. Rotational rate is simply not a sensible one-metric-only measure of drive speed.

Having said that, this stuff isn't that expensive, and I don't know why anyone wouldn't spring for the 7200 drive. If you can afford a Duet, you certainly can afford a 7200 drive.

And if you only have one internal drive space, the best thing to do is to boot from an external drive, and put a nice and fast internal drive in there for your DAW projects.

JSL

[WideawakE]

just want to say that it sucks you can't use the FW on an Apple Cinema display to use the Duet

guess I'll go shopping for a long FW cable