Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac

[Max]

Originally Posted by tengu

Max, why did you design the duet with unbalanced outs?

It has balanced ins but only unbalanced outputs.

To have used balanced outputs with a bus powered device would have severely increased power consumption and inhearantly reduced the battery life of the computer.

It is important to note that there is no difference sonically between balanced and unbalanced outputs, just level and cable run lengths. Since the vast majority of Duet users have powered speakers and aren't running 1000' cable lines from center-stage to front-of-house at Wembley Staduim, the application of unbalanced outputs on Duet is not only totally sensible, it's also more flexible.

Originally Posted by kaki putih

And another question for Max...

I have read here that there are issues with running FW audio interfaces bus-powered with the MacBook Pro... like MBP not powering up / recognizing the interface etc.

Does it work with the Duet? Has it been tested, or maybe meanwhile the whole thing has been fixed in the MBP with a firmware update or something like that?

Duet runs great on MacBook Pros

Originally Posted by smoore98

I am assuming I should have no problem using with Cubase 4. It states:

"Compatible with any Core Audio-compliant audio application "

Scott

You assume correctly. All Core Audio apps are supported.

[Max]

Originally Posted by eskay

Why the hell didn't they make it so the headphone can be a seperate output than the main out. I would love to use this in a live situation using Ableton Live or NI's Traktor. Even if I'm recording I need an output for the cue mix, and one for the main out.
I mean it's there. Just give us a software update that can give us a seperate headphone out. They would sell by the bucketload. So many electronic musicians would use this on stage.
Come on Apogee it's so close. Make it the ultimate portable recorder. Give us seperate cue out!!!

Duet is designed to be an Apogee quality product at a never before seen price point. It's important to understand that there is no product out there that will compare sonically to Duet, short of spending thousands more (i.e. Ensemble).

To insure the headphone out achieved the quality we sought, we had to have the same signal path to both the headphone and D/A. To design in a separate D/A for the headphone out would have increased the cost significantly.

That being said, one of the coolest features of Core Audio is the ability to aggregate multiple devices into a single device. This includes built in audio I/O. So for cue mixes, aggregate Duet and the built in output on your Mac and you're good to go.

[BryanGamet]

so whens the release date max? :D

[jindrich]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

OH NO! You might have to spend fifteen more dollars.

- c

thank you.

Now please go and read a little bit of this,

Electrical impedance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you're welcome.

[hduncan]

Question is, should I buy a mac just for this one peice of gear

[Jay Fitz]

Originally Posted by smoore98

availability says Sept. OK, its sept.

I need this. Where do I go to get it? Can we pre-order?

Scott

Duet by Apogee - Personal Pro Audio Interface

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by jindrich

thank you.

Now please go and read a little bit of this,

Electrical impedance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you're welcome.

You could get a passive split box, that would resolve this if the output really arent up to driving two headphones, it might be ok though AFAIK.

[bcgood]

The Duet looks like a great product!

I just got through watching the Duet Quick Start Video. Just one piece of advice, please hire a professional VO artist next time to do the narration, that was horrible; it was very unprofessional sounding in an East Coast kind of way...

[kenkelly81]

Originally Posted by bcgood

The Duet looks like a great product!

I just got through watching the Duet Quick Start Video. Just one piece of advice, please hire a professional VO artist next time to do the narration, that was horrible; it was very unprofessional sounding in an East Coast kind of way...

Funny. Isn't Apogee based on the West Coast?

[Lwilliam]

"It is important to note that there is no difference sonically between balanced and unbalanced outputs..."


Only in an electrically ideal environment. Any hum, buzz, RFI, etc, and it gets into the monitors. At least it wouldn't get recorded.

I still think it's a great product for the price point and the purpose (portability).

[jindrich]

Originally Posted by bcgood

The Duet looks like a great product!

I just got through watching the Duet Quick Start Video. Just one piece of advice, please hire a professional VO artist next time to do the narration, that was horrible; it was very unprofessional sounding in an East Coast kind of way...

No you're wrong.

It was done by a professional VO artist, and it was also recorded thru the Duet.

Problem is, only the engineer was wearing headphones but not the VO artist, as there is only one output

[eskay]

Originally Posted by Max

Duet is designed to be an Apogee quality product at a never before seen price point. It's important to understand that there is no product out there that will compare sonically to Duet, short of spending thousands more (i.e. Ensemble).

To insure the headphone out achieved the quality we sought, we had to have the same signal path to both the headphone and D/A. To design in a separate D/A for the headphone out would have increased the cost significantly.

That being said, one of the coolest features of Core Audio is the ability to aggregate multiple devices into a single device. This includes built in audio I/O. So for cue mixes, aggregate Duet and the built in output on your Mac and you're good to go.

In theory and in paper aggregating multiple devices seems like a no brainer. In reality though thats a different story, depending on the computer your using. For most people with G4 laptops this becomes a problem. Because you have a firewire audio interface (Duet) plus a firewire drive to playback your music and your live files. This in itself taxes out your laptop and through my experience aggregating multiple devices also taxes your cpu, not giving you good results. I"m telling you Max, a lot of people wouldn't mind you guys producing a different version of the Duet that comprimises the headphone out. Besides most people don't mix with their headphones. So I would love to have a four output version.
Again I think this product is leaving out the performing live musician and it's a shame.

Just my 2 cents.

[tengu]

Thanks for the reply max. Duet looks awesome I am definitely going to get one.

It was only the other day I was lamenting the fact that there was no high quality, highly portable, firewire devices on the market that were still affordable.

This is perfect for me. Thanks.

[jindrich]

Gosh, looks like despite its lack of 2 headphone outs, I'll have to buy one for my MacbookPro as a remote rec setup

Flecther words:

"(...) It's so scary good we just hope they don't build 8 and 16 channel units of it while we still have Rosetta-800's and AD-16x's and DA-16x's in stock!!!"

Go to mercenary's website to read the whole story.





About my obsession with the 2 headphone outs:

years ago i wrote a letter to apogee telling them that was the only thing missing in the Mini.Me. I think they got it right with the ensemble (who implemented it), but for some reason, they missed it again with the Duet, the apparent substitute to the MiniMe.

I know you can get an small, active, batt powered headphone amp to drive 2 cans and connect it to the Duet, but that makes the whole thing not only more expensive (that headphone amp costs around $300), but also breaks the elegance and simplicity of the (Apple designed?) Duet.
Was it that difficult to understand it would have made the Duet the perfect professional VO/performer mobile recording system?


Take a look at my avatar: say she is adding overdubs to some pre-recorded tracks, therefore she needs headphones, and me, the engineer, as well. Just a pair of outs, not much to ask.

[thermos]

Originally Posted by eskay

In theory and in paper aggregating multiple devices seems like a no brainer. In reality though thats a different story, depending on the computer your using. For most people with G4 laptops this becomes a problem. Because you have a firewire audio interface (Duet) plus a firewire drive to playback your music and your live files. This in itself taxes out your laptop and through my experience aggregating multiple devices also taxes your cpu, not giving you good results. I"m telling you Max, a lot of people wouldn't mind you guys producing a different version of the Duet that comprimises the headphone out. Besides most people don't mix with their headphones. So I would love to have a four output version.
Again I think this product is leaving out the performing live musician and it's a shame.

Just my 2 cents.

In theory then, It would probably be cheaper for you to just get a new laptop where that isn't an issue, rather than Apogee make a more expensive product to fit your needs.

I think it looks PERFECT. I don't need one, but I really want one.

[AnalogBob]

Duet... a 24 bit device....rumors of logic 8 with support of 32bit converters... hmmm
How are the converter's in this better than the mini me? How does it compare to the Rossetta or AD16x?

[thermos]

Originally Posted by AnalogBob

Duet... a 24 bit device....rumors of logic 8 with support of 32bit converters... hmmm
How are the converter's in this better than the mini me? How does it compare to the Rossetta or AD16x?

Are there even 32 bit converters? I haven't heard of any/I don't think there is much reason for them. Read about the ensemble compared to everything else (mini me/rosetta, etc), the duet is the same stuff.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by Lwilliam

I just spotted the OS version required: 10.4.10

I'd like to know if that's an absolute requirement, cause I have to stick to 10.4.9 until Digi "approves" the .10 version. [I use PT and Logic]

10.4.10 is *kind of* approved.
Have a look on the DUC- they mention the fact that there are Macs that only run on 10.4.10 and give you 'best practice' documentation for it.

FWIW I'm running fine with 10.4.10 and PT HD and Logic for over a month now without any issues.

[AnalogBob]

Originally Posted by thermos

Are there even 32 bit converters? I haven't heard of any/I don't think there is much reason for them. Read about the ensemble compared to everything else (mini me/rosetta, etc), the duet is the same stuff.

I am not sure,,, I thought I read something about metric halo...doing something 32bit in the logic 8 rumor thread.... not that it is really neccesary.. its like ensemble design got it... the unbalanced out's will be usefull, it's too bad it doesn't have both..

[nukmusic]

Why not SPDIF I/O? would have been nice.

[Max]

Originally Posted by thermos

Are there even 32 bit converters? I haven't heard of any/I don't think there is much reason for them. Read about the ensemble compared to everything else (mini me/rosetta, etc), the duet is the same stuff.

There is no such thing as a 32 bit converter.

That said, there is a chip manufacturer currently advertising a 32 bit DAC chip. While this DAC can read 32 bit words, it does not do D/A conversion at 32 bits. The actual conversion is closer to 20 bits, based on dynamic range.

[Ghost Logic]

Max, how does sound quality (specifically the D/A converter and the headphone amp) compare to those in the Mini DAC (I don't care about the Ensemble)? If its better this is a no-brainer purchase for me.

[logiclust]

Originally Posted by littledoodler

why is unbalanced outs such a big deal really?

since i hook up to random PAs that are typically at +4, it'd be nice not to carry around an rdl or henry box. i guess the trade-off is to carry a balun around or a wall wort...

[audiothings]

Max, I guess my question got missed the last time... does the maestro software do m/s decoding?

edit: just downloaded the maestro manual. No M/S decoding :( This is a real deal breaker for me. It would have been such a simple thing to do, but i guess the ipod crowd has never heard of and will probably never need or use the M/S technique

[chanigelgor]

unit looks fantastic!

one thing though... how will it go if an external firewire drive is used on the fw800 port of an imac/macbook pro? the ensemble can't work like that. only way i've managed to get an external drive working with the ensemble is to plug it into the second firewire port on the ensemble. (max - will this ever be fixed, or is it an apple hardware (fw bus) problem?)

what if one wanted to use the duet with the ensemble as 3rd headphone, extra stereo output? would you plug it straight into the back of the ensemble? what about the external fw drive in this instance?

still.. as a stand alone box for on the road writing/recording, it appears to be near perfect!!

regards

sd

[iMAD]

Video in/out ! would have make my day !

[dlmorley]

I'd like 8 ...no 16 outputs. Wordclock in, 3 headphone sections, waves plug ins included, level meters and the price to be $399.

On the other hand for getting great quality audio into your iBook MB or MBP this looks GREAT

[chk027]

I was just about sold on Metric Halo ULN-2, but now this thing a ma bob comes along.

Hey I only need 2 input and outputs, obviously the ULN-2 gives you more 2 more.

Bottom line, do you people think that the Duet's pres and convertors will be on the level of the ULN-2, cause if so why spend the extra $600????

I guess all the companies will come out with a similar products with better features right?

Should I wait a year????

[jDresnin]

Max, I really appreciate all the time you're taking to answer everyone's questions. The Duet looks like an amazing product, and I hope it will open the door for even more affordable high-end gear from Apogee. Speaking of which, are there any plans for a revision or possibly a price cut of the Ensemble in the near future? I'd planned on buying one but the Duet looks like quite sufficient. Any chance you guys will post a comparison chart on the website?

Thanks.

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by chk027

I was just about sold on Metric Halo ULN-2, but now this thing a ma bob comes along.

Hey I only need 2 input and outputs, obviously the ULN-2 gives you more 2 more.

Bottom line, do you people think that the Duet's pres and convertors will be on the level of the ULN-2, cause if so why spend the extra $600????

I guess all the companies will come out with a similar products with better features right?

Should I wait a year????

Same converters as the Ensemble and how much is that compared to the ULN-2, so ok maybe not as many inputs etc but if you only need 2....