Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac

[Max]

Originally Posted by Al Rogers

Kincept,

I've been researching the Duet mic pres. All sources agree they don't suck. To quote one source, "Apogee is using a chip, but it is a very good chip."

It's never just about a chip, the circuitry around the chip is more important to determining sound quality.

Originally Posted by GCL

I hate the issues with the Apogee Duet driver, but the mic preamps in it are fabulous, and I've owned quite a few high-end preamps in the past. Just record a nice nylon string guitar with a KM184 and you'll see. D/A is great too. I'm very happy with these aspects of the unit.

There is no "Duet driver". Apogee has never made a FireWire driver for Mac. All Apogee FireWire products use Apple's Core Audio FireWire driver.

[ocp]

Originally Posted by Vocalvoodoo

What kind of driver problems are you having? I ask because just recently I'm getting weirdness with my Duet. Things have been fine since I bought it when it first came out. But now I will be trucking along fine while mixing, then out of nowhere, everything gets all garbled, similar to when you have sync problems with an external converter.

Have you done the latest Airport update?
I did and now my audio apps are glitchy.

[Vocalvoodoo]

Originally Posted by kincept

duet is not that great,
i would just get another firewire inerface and buy an external preamp.

The controls in logic and garageband are lame, its not that hard to click on a minimized screen or in spaces to adjust your settings.

I've actually found it to be quite an amazing $500 box. Super clean, quite, great A/D D/A and very usable pres. I think you'd be hard pressed to find similar quality in the price range.

Then again, this is only my opinion.

Also, Kincept, are you sure you don't have a bad unit? I've read a lot of your posts regarding the Duet. Maybe you got a bad one.

[Vocalvoodoo]

Originally Posted by ocp

Have you done the latest Airport update?
I did and now my audio apps are glitchy.

You know, I did actually. Now I'm trying to remember if the problems started after the update. I think it may have been around the same time. (I just can't remember when I installed that update)

Thanks for the heads up.

[ocp]

Originally Posted by Vocalvoodoo

You know, I did actually. Now I'm trying to remember if the problems started after the update. I think it may have been around the same time. (I just can't remember when I installed that update)

Thanks for the heads up.

Well, if so, check out this thread: Latest Apple Software Update Has Wrecked My Setup: Need Help!!!

I posted a link to a fix there.
All my apps are now working fine (except Ableton Live).

[Vocalvoodoo]

Thanks, ocp. Much appreciated!

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by Max

It's never just about a chip, the circuitry around the chip is more important to determining sound quality.

There is no "Duet driver". Apogee has never made a FireWire driver for Mac. All Apogee FireWire products use Apple's Core Audio FireWire driver.

so are you saying that the updates on the website for the DUET are for the Maestro software only?

there are some issues with the DUET in logic like random bursts when pressing play and sometimes when stopping which indicates a core audio driver issue. i don't get these issues when using my MOTU 828MKII

[Max]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

so are you saying that the updates on the website for the DUET are for the Maestro software only?

The download is for Maestro and the Pop Up display. The driver already exists in your OS and is used buy more devices than just Apogee products.

there are some issues with the DUET in logic like random bursts when pressing play and sometimes when stopping which indicates a core audio driver issue. i don't get these issues when using my MOTU 828MKII

It could be driver related, although we haven't encountered this in testing. Have you contacted tech support?

[inthere]

Originally Posted by kincept

im glad someone agrees with me.

Im talking about turning on my music (IE mostly spoken word RAP) and feeling like it is fizzling, it is not as strong , good, great sounding as THE MOTU ULTRALIGHT> im not talking about a grace true rnp !!!!!! I think the sounds from regular ITUNES should be better or equal to the motu?

I haven't tested the pres except for the guitar, which Im only so so satisfied with.

I think this is like buying that cheap model MERCEDES the little one with no power and no regular trunk. its like welll I BOUGHT A mercedes it uses the same aluminum and engine components as the new 500 SL.

shure it turns,

But the BOTTOM LINE IS the Same priced GT MUSTANG smokes that cheap mercedes for most people.

maybe you could hear some great nuance at 192 kHZ playing classical music in a sound treated room, but for most home users they might require some more muscle.


we will see when I record with a mic.

Sweetest sounding audio interface I've ever had for itunes and DVD playback was the M-Audio firewire 1814. Movies sounded magical coming through it. Mixes sounded awesome. When I played it through another source however, everything sucked and there was no separation. Motu 896 followed and separation was much better when I played the mix through other sources, I'm talking about the exact same mix in Logic. DVD movie and itunes playback sucked in comparison to the M-Audio though. After that I used the Motu Traveler and things were about the same. The the Konnect 24 D, again, about the same but with much more "punch". Konnect 24D was great on itunes playback, but kinda sucked on movie playback, but that may be personal preference because I felt it put a bit of a harsher edge to movies than what I want.
After that was the Saffire LE and while it lacked the punch of the 24D the separation was awesome. Cut to today and my Apogee Duet...........................

Separation is..................................heavenly. Pre's? Absolutely shits all over everything else I've owned in terms of clarity. I have a friend that has a Duet and he wasn't impressed with the pre's. Turns out he was sending his vocals thru a cheap compressor. I told him to go directly into the Duet and he lost his mind when he heard the result. When I play mixes out on the weekends (I'm a DJ) if sounds like Swedien has mixed my stuff-Everything in the club sounds exactly as it did at home and on every other source.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by Max

It's never just about a chip, the circuitry around the chip is more important to determining sound quality.



There is no "Duet driver". Apogee has never made a FireWire driver for Mac. All Apogee FireWire products use Apple's Core Audio FireWire driver.

I've always understood that point. Apogee has long advertised this in print ads for the Duet and Ensemble. Whether Apogee or Apple, your products do not work completely as advertised, and we're getting very little communication about it. This the real issue here and why everyone is so upset and venting on this forum about it. You guys work with Apple very closely. Cutting to the chase, we as users are basically looking for good communication rather that pat answers that keep us at an arm's length from any knowledge that can helps us with our business. We rely on what you print in your advertisements when you say the device is core audio compliant. We've had no reason to imagine all the problems we would all encounter with these products. And it's the length of time we've had to put up with these issues that is also a contributing factor. It's been going on for almost 6 months now.

Most of us are working professionals, and we'd really appreciate being clued in on what's happening. Case in point, I applaud Digidesign's Dave Lebolt's recent communication to its customers. That's all what we want too. We love Apogee products, we want to work with them. This a good thing, but we need better customer support and communication.

I think VSL, East-West and Digidesign, are all companies that understand that a new business model for customer communication is emerging. Apple (and therefore Apogee) is unfortunately going in the opposite direction.

[Max]

Originally Posted by GCL

I've always understood that point. Apogee has long advertised this in print ads for the Duet and Ensemble. Whether Apogee or Apple, your products do not work completely as advertised, and we're getting very little communication about it. This the real issue here and why everyone is so upset and venting on this forum about it. You guys work with Apple very closely. Cutting to the chase, we as users are basically looking for good communication rather that pat answers that keep us at an arm's length from any knowledge that can helps us with our business. We rely on what you print in your advertisements when you say the device is core audio compliant. We've had no reason to imagine all the problems we would all encounter with these products. And it's the length of time we've had to put up with these issues that is also a contributing factor. It's been going on for almost 6 months now.

Most of us are working professionals. Case in point, I applaud Digidesign's Dave Lebolt's recent communication to its customers. That's all what we want too.

I think VSL, East-West and Digidesign, are all companies that understand that a new business model for customer communication is emerging. Apple (and therefore Apogee) is unfortunately going in the opposite direction.

GCL,

I understand your frustration. Good communication with our customers is one of Apogee's core philosophies. In this instance, we communicated early on when we confirmed the problem, we explained what we thought were contributing factors, and what we were doing to help resolve it. Since this problem is not Apogee-specific, we cannot tell you what we don't know, that is, when there will be a fix. All we can do is let you know we are doing everything in our power to help and encourage a solution.

[kincept]

Originally Posted by GCL

I've always understood that point. Apogee has long advertised this in print ads for the Duet and Ensemble. Whether Apogee or Apple, your products do not work completely as advertised, and we're getting very little communication about it. This the real issue here and why everyone is so upset and venting on this forum about it. You guys work with Apple very closely. Cutting to the chase, we as users are basically looking for good communication rather that pat answers that keep us at an arm's length from any knowledge that can helps us with our business. We rely on what you print in your advertisements when you say the device is core audio compliant. We've had no reason to imagine all the problems we would all encounter with these products. And it's the length of time we've had to put up with these issues that is also a contributing factor. It's been going on for almost 6 months now.

Most of us are working professionals, and we'd really appreciate being clued in on what's happening. Case in point, I applaud Digidesign's Dave Lebolt's recent communication to its customers. That's all what we want too. We love Apogee products, we want to work with them. This a good thing, but we need better customer support and communication.

I think VSL, East-West and Digidesign, are all companies that understand that a new business model for customer communication is emerging. Apple (and therefore Apogee) is unfortunately going in the opposite direction.

I have had the DUET for a month and have had absolutely NO PROBLEM with it what soever, (except for not loving the sound of the pres) It is the most rock solid inerface ive owned, which have included, firebox, 24d, ultralight, and fasttrack.

its integration with logic and garageband are nothing to write home about. Its like click a button and see a few of the command options, maestro on a separate screen offers more options.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by kincept

I have had the DUET for a month and have had absolutely NO PROBLEM with it what soever, (except for not loving the sound of the pres) It is the most rock solid inerface ive owned, which have included, firebox, 24d, ultralight, and fasttrack.

its integration with logic and garageband are nothing to write home about. Its like click a button and see a few of the command options, maestro on a separate screen offers more options.

That's great. I'm happy for you that you have no issues with it (no sarcasm implied). As you can see, there are plenty of us who do not share your good luck.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by Max

GCL,

I understand your frustration. Good communication with our customers is one of Apogee's core philosophies. In this instance, we communicated early on when we confirmed the problem, we explained what we thought were contributing factors, and what we were doing to help resolve it. Since this problem is not Apogee-specific, we cannot tell you what we don't know, that is, when there will be a fix. All we can do is let you know we are doing everything in our power to help and encourage a solution.

Thank you for that. Should we expect the fix for this to be in a future Mac OSX release, such as 10.5.3? (i.e, not a separate update from Apogee's site as the Oct. '07 Duet driver software)

[kincept]

Originally Posted by Vocalvoodoo

I've actually found it to be quite an amazing $500 box. Super clean, quite, great A/D D/A and very usable pres. I think you'd be hard pressed to find similar quality in the price range.

Then again, this is only my opinion.

Also, Kincept, are you sure you don't have a bad unit? I've read a lot of your posts regarding the Duet. Maybe you got a bad one.

the unit is definitely not bad, I just dont think the logic controls are anything to write home about.

The pres? i think it depends on your music style, I will say that for strings or instruments
it deos excel, but on vocals unless your singing a clean clear mariah carey type vocal performance I think it will leave you a little flat.

[Max]

Originally Posted by GCL

Thank you for that. Should we expect the fix for this to be in a future Mac OSX release, such as 10.5.3? (i.e, not a separate update from Apogee's site as the Oct. '07 Duet driver software)

I cannot comment on that. All I can tell you is we are pushing for an expeditious fix.

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by Max

The download is for Maestro and the Pop Up display. The driver already exists in your OS and is used buy more devices than just Apogee products.

It could be driver related, although we haven't encountered this in testing. Have you contacted tech support?

i haven't contacted support since i have assumed the issue is driver related and that an update must be forth coming since i still can't even seem to get the DUET to control my transport in Logic and neither have others so i've been waiting for an update

currently i'm still using my MOTU 828MKII interface since the DUET doesn't have balanced outs. when i do use the DUET in the system then i get a lot of interference noise and it's more hassle than it's worth at the moment to resolve since i'm in the middle of a very complex project so i mainly use the DUET on the road and with my laptop... other than the bursts which are very loud when they happen, the quality is great on playback. i haven't tested for tracking since my setup, monitoring and headphone mix system is complex and reliant on many channels

another thing, about aggregate devices, is this meant to work with the DUET?
i've had the DUET plugged serially into the MOTU 828MKII and was able to create an aggregate device and the clocks seemed stable. does OS X handle the clocking of aggregate devices or are devices supposed to be connected in such a way as one is the master and the other the slave??? i know the DUET doesn't have this capability but i'm confused since i was able to do this and never got any clocking issues??
any ideas about that Max?

thanks for your time! i will log an issue with support once i test the system again

[Max]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

i haven't contacted support since i have assumed the issue is driver related and that an update must be forth coming since i still can't even seem to get the DUET to control my transport in Logic and neither have others so i've been waiting for an update

I cannot stress strongly enough to contact support first. We have an amazing tech support team dedicated to serve your needs. So many times we see issues go up on Gearslutz as Apogee problems only to discover thats not the case at all. Give us the opportunity to try and solve your problems before you take them to the rest of the world. (ok, off my soapbox)

currently i'm still using my MOTU 828MKII interface since the DUET doesn't have balanced outs. when i do use the DUET in the system then i get a lot of interference noise and it's more hassle than it's worth at the moment to resolve since i'm in the middle of a very complex project so i mainly use the DUET on the road and with my laptop... other than the bursts which are very loud when they happen, the quality is great on playback. i haven't tested for tracking since my setup, monitoring and headphone mix system is complex and reliant on many channels

Hard to say over the internet. Call tech support and we'll walk you through all of it.

another thing, about aggregate devices, is this meant to work with the DUET?
i've had the DUET plugged serially into the MOTU 828MKII and was able to create an aggregate device and the clocks seemed stable. does OS X handle the clocking of aggregate devices or are devices supposed to be connected in such a way as one is the master and the other the slave??? i know the DUET doesn't have this capability but i'm confused since i was able to do this and never got any clocking issues??
any ideas about that Max?

Yes, this does work with the MOTU because your 828MKII allows you to clock to Duet, by choosing Apple's Core Audio driver as a clock source.

[Virtuoso]

Originally Posted by Max

Give us the opportunity to try and solve your problems before you take them to the rest of the world. (ok, off my soapbox)

Test your products properly before you release them onto the market with false claims of compatibility. (ok, off my soapbox)

[DISCERN]

All I can say is... suck a fart if your duet isn't working properly. I've lugged mine through 3 continents in a backpack full of dirty clothes. It works Flawlessly.


but i've worked in customer service before. Its common knowledge that people only really voice their opinion when there is a problem. I guarantee the number of people successfully using the duet outweighs the number of people having problems probably by a factor of at least 50.

Hell... I've even been using it as an aggregated device with my macbook's internal soundcard for live sets. Main stereo mix out through the duet whilst I feed my drum machines an synth recorded FSK Sync tracks from within ableton live. Rock solid.

3minutes out of the box and the duet was working perfectly. 6 months of being kicked, dropped, thrown by baggage handles and abused and it still works brilliantly.

Best F&%king purchase I ever made.

[Football]

My Duet experience has been flawless also.

I hope these issues get sorted out asap though.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by DISCERN

All I can say is... suck a fart if your duet isn't working properly.
Hell... I've even been using it as an aggregated device with my macbook's internal soundcard for live sets.

You probably (obviously) don't have 16 GB of RAM in your MacBook. It's a known issue for users with large amounts of RAM.

[DISCERN]

Originally Posted by GCL

You probably (obviously) don't have 16 GB of RAM in your MacBook. It's a known issue for users with large amounts of RAM.

No, its obvious that I understand that things take time.

Some people here remind me of an old boss I had. I would tell her that I was working 11am to 8pm at my day job, so she would then roster me on 8pm to 2am despite knowing that both jobs were a 15km commute apart.

I'll lend Max my teleporter. I think he needs it. Some people here are being a little more than unreasonable imo... yet max being the stand-up gentleman he is, still handles himself extremely elegantly.

[DISCERN]

Originally Posted by GCL

Whether Apogee or Apple, your products do not work completely as advertised

Are you sure? The duet may in fact be working perfectly in all shapes and forms. It could be constructed and coded perfectly to spec with apple's core audio drivers. The real issue may lie with apples core audio drivers and the way they address 16gb of ram in your apple computer...


now then, that would be like me yelling at a mic manufacturer for selling me a mic that doesn't work as advertised... yet the real problem being the f%&ked up mic cable that I connected it to.

[GCL]

Originally Posted by DISCERN

Are you sure? The duet may in fact be working perfectly in all shapes and forms. It could be constructed and coded perfectly to spec with apple's core audio drivers. The real issue may lie with apples core audio drivers and the way they address 16gb of ram in your apple computer...


now then, that would be like me yelling at a mic manufacturer for selling me a mic that doesn't work as advertised... yet the real problem being the f%&ked up mic cable that I connected it to.

Yikes! I'm outta here.

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by Max

I cannot stress strongly enough to contact support first. We have an amazing tech support team dedicated to serve your needs. So many times we see issues go up on Gearslutz as Apogee problems only to discover thats not the case at all. Give us the opportunity to try and solve your problems before you take them to the rest of the world. (ok, off my soapbox)

fair enough, i can't argue with that

Originally Posted by Max

Hard to say over the internet. Call tech support and we'll walk you through all of it.

i may just do that

Originally Posted by Max

Yes, this does work with the MOTU because your 828MKII allows you to clock to Duet, by choosing Apple's Core Audio driver as a clock source.

i mentioned this in a forum the other day and one guy laughed about it saying that he thought i was joking since the devices have to be connected together physically (either adat, spdif, wordclock) to actually share the same clock

[Francis Vaughan]

i mentioned this in a forum the other day and one guy laughed about it saying that he thought i was joking since the devices have to be connected together physically (either adat, spdif, wordclock) to actually share the same clock

In which case he needs a lesson in how Firewire works. Any device on the Firewire bus is allowed to assert that it is the cycle master. Other devices on the bus are allowed to derive their local sample clocks from the Firewire bus cycle. Easy. (Well easy in principle, the usual caveats about deriving a good quality local clock from an external source still apply.) This is one of the many reasons you don't see USB based converters in anything bar the low end stuff.

[pedrodash]

I posted my "Duet Problems" and Audio clips here:

Does anyone else get a weird humming/crackling sound from their Apogee Duet?

can anyone tell me what's going on?
this clicks/glitches are driving me nu ts..