Will PT LE EVER HAVE DELAY COMPENSATION??

[BigJunk]

I swear I can deal with Digi 002's converters, I can deal with the limit of 48 tracks (with the upgrade) I can deal with running only native plugins. I CAN'T DEAL WITH THE LATENCY! It really bugs me, especially with Drumagog. One of my recording school pals uses Cubase and in using it, I got so spoiled with the whole mixer being completely compensated even when using high latency plugins. So is the delay comp something they will never give to PT LE? AHHHH!!

Junk

[FossilTooth]

I find this endlessly frustrating as well.

Especially when I've prepped at my project studio and am finishing a mix on an HD system. Do I turn delay compensation off, print processing, or time shift all my processed regions back AGAIN? Either way, it's a waste of time and/or resources.

Aargh. And I thought I bought PT LE to stay compatible!

[thermos]

I became ok with this, manually shifting the tracks is not so bad. You know you can apple click on the track info and see how much latency the tracks are reading, right?

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by thermos

I became ok with this, manually shifting the tracks is not so bad. You know you can apple click on the track info and see how much latency the tracks are reading, right?

is there a fast way to nudge the tracks, esp on latency # that's larger? (instead of nudge, nudge, nudge for hundreds of times)

[Daedalus77]

Short answer: No, it will never have ADC.

Digi wants your frustration to lead to purchasing an HD rig.

And Digi usually gets what it wants.

Not that we have to like it.

Best of luck.

[FossilTooth]

Originally Posted by thermos

I became ok with this, manually shifting the tracks is not so bad. You know you can apple click on the track info and see how much latency the tracks are reading, right?

Of course. It doesn't make it any less of a pain in the ass though.

[AlexLakis]

ALT-H. Enter number of samples. Done. Takes 3 seconds.

Why does it bug you with Drumagog? Select the "fixed latency" version. CTRL-click on the volume display until you get to the "delay" readout. ALT-H and enter that number with the "move forward" option selected (around 3257 or 3757 samples or something like that for Drumagog.) Done. Takes 3 seconds. Make a comment in the comments section that you shifted the track forward, and how many samples you shifted it. That way, if you need to shift it back, there won't be any confusion.

Honestly, delay compensation has become a complete non-issue for me. I've gotten so used to compensating for it with nudging in LE it's truly second nature to me now.

If you can't deal with it, consider buying HD?

[cazemajou]

Originally Posted by theblotted

is there a fast way to nudge the tracks, esp on latency # that's larger? (instead of nudge, nudge, nudge for hundreds of times)

alt + H

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Honestly, delay compensation has become a complete non-issue for me. I've gotten so used to compensating for it with nudging in LE it's truly second nature to me now.

Partly I agree with this.

Another benefit is that you can absolutely sure that the delay compensation happens accurately! (if the latency is correcly reported to PT, which was not always the case in the beginning).

At the beginning of your mix group all tracks and duplicate playlists. Then you can easily go back to the original position of your files. Whenever you instantiate a plugin immediately take care of the latency, nudge and be done with it. Doesn't have to take up that much time.

I am sure Digidesign will implement ADC in PT LE sooner or later...

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Another benefit is that you can absolutely sure that the delay compensation happens accurately! (if the latency is correcly reported to PT, which was not always the case in the beginning).

Absolutely. This is why I actually don't like the plugin delay compensation in HD. We used to get sessions in all the time that would sound a little "off" sometimes...Well, what delay setting were they using? What are we using? Let's try this one...wait, did they nudge this? Argh!

I've also simply stopped using plugins I feel report "questionable" latency to PT.

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

At the beginning of your mix group all tracks and duplicate playlists. Then you can easily go back to the original position of your files. Whenever you instantiate a plugin immediately take care of the latency, nudge and be done with it. Doesn't have to take up that much time.

That's actually a great idea and that never occured to me for some reason! One playlist with the nudged track, another without it. That makes switching back and forth even quicker!

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

I am sure Digidesign will implement ADC in PT LE sooner or later...

I'm not holding my breath; With today's native processing power, using HD has become all but pointless aside from the additional I/O (and there are work-arounds for that in M-Powered...)

[Geert van den Berg]

Maybe they'll release it Digi Style! (Remember the MP3 Option?)

'The Automatic Delay Compensation Option'

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Maybe they'll release it Digi Style! (Remember the MP3 Option?)

'The Automatic Delay Compensation Option'

MP3 option was what, $20?

ADC option will more likely be around $599. But it'll come with a bunch of seven year old plug-ins you either already have or don't need - "a $10,000 value!"

[mixerguy]

Originally Posted by Daedalus77

Short answer: No, it will never have ADC.

......

ok - so what are the winning lottery #'s for next week?



since when do you have a crystal ball?

[thermos]

Originally Posted by theblotted

is there a fast way to nudge the tracks, esp on latency # that's larger? (instead of nudge, nudge, nudge for hundreds of times)

Yes, go to shift (I think in the edit window.) Just shift by exactly how much the channel reads.

[peeder]

The answer is yes.

One question is when.

And the other is $$$ how much.

Once you get the hang of it , the current situation is just a pain for a couple minutes a day. That's not enough to get me to shell out for HD. You develop a template that has busses with specific compensation amounts, or use the track-by-track approach, and just load that up (or import those tracks) when you're ready to mix.

But the situation does make digi look stupid. Or evil.

[amost]

Originally Posted by michaelepstein

About automatic delay compensation,

Ok, Ok, I know it's a pain to nudge each track 64 samples or whatever
ahead on your Edit window time-line. And I know Digidesign is hard
at work try to get you to buy an HD rig, blah, blah, blah.

Here's a quick question though, let's assume your using your DIGI 002
as your main interface, and then finally Pro Tools 8.x LE comes out with
new features such as, Auto Delay Compensation!

Humor me on this. Are you going to trust Pro Tools software and your
native CPU to handle all that processing information?

With a Mac Pro...absolutely yes. That said, I just bucked up for HD. We'll see how it goes.

[JPZ]

Yeah if you nudge make sure you're nudging a playlist copy so you can get back quickly to the original. Also, delay plugins (Waves) make compensating pretty easy and undoable if you have enough insert slots.

[s.d.finley]

Originally Posted by JPZ

Yeah if you nudge make sure you're nudging a playlist copy so you can get back quickly to the original. Also, delay plugins (Waves) make compensating pretty easy and undoable if you have enough insert slots.

HD used to have delay plug in before digi gave it ADC. Maybe digi can give LE RTAS delay
plug ins?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by s.d.finley

HD used to have delay plug in before digi gave it ADC. Maybe digi can give LE RTAS delay
plug ins?

They already do.

[Farout]

I may be wrong about this, but I will give it a try anyhow!
Let's say you have (2) tracks you are bussing to. Place a plugin on one of those tracks .... boom! Out of phase, right? Why not add that same pluing to the second of the two tracks, but bypass the plugin - so you don't kill your CPU (I think). that should take care of the delay compensation thing, huh?
Couldn't this be applied to more than (2) tracks as well?
Please don't kill me if I am wrong ..... I am just throwing some ideas out there.
Take care!

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Farout

I may be wrong about this, but I will give it a try anyhow!
Let's say you have (2) tracks you are bussing to. Place a plugin on one of those tracks .... boom! Out of phase, right? Why not add that same pluing to the second of the two tracks, but bypass the plugin - so you don't kill your CPU (I think). that should take care of the delay compensation thing, huh?
Couldn't this be applied to more than (2) tracks as well?
Please don't kill me if I am wrong ..... I am just throwing some ideas out there.
Take care!

Well first remember that it's only in certain situations there is any latency created by a plugin. <del>Most native RTAS plugins will not have any latency as long as the hardware buffer is big enough to cover their processing time.</del> The times you get latency always are with hardware inserts and hardware plugins such as UAD, Duende, Powercore, etc.

RTAS bypass, using the bypass button on the gray top of the plugin window that's standard for all plugins, will take out both the plugin and its latency [EDIT: only on some plugins. See test results overleaf.]. For this reason, the UAD plugins have their own internal bypass that doesn't affect latency (usually an "Off" switch or some other cleverly disguised function). To get the effect you're wanting, you'd have to use the plugin-managed bypass, not the RTAS bypass. However, UAD supplies its own Delay Comp plugin to do this for you with minimal cost in processing power.

Therefore, at least when using UAD plugins in LE, always use the internal bypass, not the RTAS bypass! You will get delay/phase effects if you use the RTAS bypass after compensating for latency.

That is, until digi finds its butt in the dark and gives LE Delay Comp...

vvv And don't worry about it, it was a good question!

[Farout]

Now that I think about it: that was pretty silly of me to post that comment .... the original post wasn't asking how to fix the ADC thing, rather if Digi was going to offer it on a PTLE system. Sorry .... if my idea even works, it is not the issue.
What can I say ... I must be on crack!?

[JPZ]

Originally Posted by peeder

Well first remember that it's only in certain situations there is any latency created by a plugin. Most native RTAS plugins will not have any latency as long as the hardware buffer is big enough to cover their processing time. The times you get latency always are with hardware inserts and hardware plugins such as UAD, Duende, Powercore, etc.

RTAS bypass, using the bypass button on the gray top of the plugin window that's standard for all plugins, will take out both the plugin and its latency. For this reason, the UAD plugins have their own internal bypass that doesn't affect latency (usually an "Off" switch or some other cleverly disguised function). To get the effect you're wanting, you'd have to use the plugin-managed bypass, not the RTAS bypass. However, UAD supplies its own Delay Comp plugin to do this for you with minimal cost in processing power.

Therefore, at least when using UAD plugins in LE, always use the internal bypass, not the RTAS bypass! You will get delay/phase effects if you use the RTAS bypass.

That is, until digi finds its butt in the dark and gives LE Delay Comp...

I don't know if you're correct here. I don't use LE to mix but on TDM every plugin induces some kind of processing delay as does bussing. A couple samples off between 2 tracks, say snare top and bottom, will mess up the phase. Before ADC I would nudge, use time adjuster plugin or many times just put the same plugs on every track to keep delay intact across the board and bypass what I wasn't using. This obviously wasn't always practical resource or flexibility wise but for groups of the same type tracks it worked. It was my understanding that bypass doesn't take the plug(delay) out of the chain whereas making it inactive did. If you have the cpu resources absolutely using the same plugs on everything is a workaround.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by JPZ

I don't know if you're correct here. I don't use LE to mix but on TDM every plugin induces some kind of processing delay as does bussing.

I only work on LE systems, and they are completely different animals. It's possible that there are preferences to set (in preferences, i/o, somewhere) that may help with your struggles in TDM. I know there are odd things about mixing TDM and RTAS plugins.

It could be that LE is actually a cleaner and easier system to work with but for the hardware plugin/insert latency issue. Maybe they are crippling LE because TDM is already limping pretty miserably?

[JPZ]

Originally Posted by peeder

I only work on LE systems, and they are completely different animals. It's possible that there are preferences to set (in preferences, i/o, somewhere) that may help with your struggles in TDM. I know there are odd things about mixing TDM and RTAS plugins.

It could be that LE is actually a cleaner and easier system to work with but for the hardware plugin/insert latency issue. Maybe they are crippling LE because TDM is already limping pretty miserably?

No struggles with TDM, as far ADC goes it's built in if you want it, I was mainly referring to the old days pre HD which is where LE now is currently stuck and the workarounds associated. It seems to me you're confusing I/O latency with plugin induced delay.

[amost]

Originally Posted by peeder

RTAS bypass, using the bypass button on the gray top of the plugin window that's standard for all plugins, will take out both the plugin and its latency.

Hate to disagree but it won't. If you hit bypass on RenComp RTAS and it gets blued out, you'll still have 64 samples of latency despite having no comp.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by amost

Hate to disagree but it won't. If you hit bypass on RenComp RTAS and it gets blued out, you'll still have 64 samples of latency despite having no comp.

OK I see I have to make a test session that demonstrates all the sources of latency in LE and what can be done about them. We'll get to the bottom of this!

[Royer121]

Excuse my question, but where du you geht the information about the plugins latency, so that you can shift the track ?

thanks
ray

[lucasmusic]

http://akmedia.digidesign.com/suppor...tems_33000.pdf

[Royer121]

thanks for the link !