Metric Halo

[matahari]

hi all..

I am getting ready to get a new converter. I will be using it with logic on a new mac pro. Metric Halo is looking realy nice.

Now the question is which one...

I am a film and tv composer. I use both VI and hardware synths, and outboard running through a soundtracks mrx analoge board.

I never need more then 2 inputs and I need at least 6 outs.

I will be needing to buy new plugins, as waves is asking me to re-buy .. all my pluggins.
some people think the dsp is not needed with the new mac pro's?

Should I get the +dsp option or use the money and buy pluggins seperate?

Also would I need the adat inputs that are on the 2882 ?
(I may need to at somepoint link 2 computers togther.is the way I would do it?)

Or could i get away with the ULN2, the pre-amps could be useful if i want to travel with my G4 powerbook.

Any Suggestions?

[timstoreymoses]

Hi there!

Just to clarify, it's extremely unlikely waves are asking you to rebuy their plugins. What they are probably asking for is that you buy WUP (or waves update plan). If you don't buy into WUP, then you can no longer update to their latest greatest versions and you must buy WUP if you feel you need that, or you upgrade your computer... But basically you will still have the licence to use the plug ins and versions you already have. It's also worth noting that if you 'upgrade' to a bigger plugin pack, you get WUP coverage on what you already have!

The new Macs are pretty powerful, however the MH system isn't a DSP accelerator. It is possible to use the MH box as an entire recording system (as long as you need no automation!). The advantage here is that all routing and effects are applied in the MH's DSP, and so latency is down to (IIRC) about 0.7ms, rather than however long it takes to get through your computer, effects etc, and then back out. Add to that the fact that the MH plug ins that you get without the +DSP licence are well into the legendary status in the plug in world, and you're getting a pretty good deal!

Having said all that, I bought a 2882, then did a field upgrade to 2d. It didn't work, and it may cost quite a bit to put right now... So im not altogether the happiest camper atm!!!

Mo

[bogeyeater]

Tim

Sorry to hear about your misfortunes. I got a legacy uln2 in june and now i'm getting ready to upgrade to 2d. reading ur posts i think i'll skip the field upgrade and leave it to the pros.

that said, every time i've had problems installing cards it's been because i haven't seated them properly so they're not connecting - experienced techies know how hard they can shove a card into the board without mishap. if something does go *snap* they just ship you a new unit - that's the joy of warranty cover.

hope yours is something simple like this.

[A440]

Originally Posted by matahari

hi all..

I am getting ready to get a new converter. I will be using it with logic on a new mac pro. Metric Halo is looking realy nice.

Now the question is which one...

I am a film and tv composer. I use both VI and hardware synths, and outboard running through a soundtracks mrx analoge board.

I never need more then 2 inputs and I need at least 6 outs.

I will be needing to buy new plugins, as waves is asking me to re-buy .. all my pluggins.
some people think the dsp is not needed with the new mac pro's?

Should I get the +dsp option or use the money and buy pluggins seperate?

Also would I need the adat inputs that are on the 2882 ?
(I may need to at somepoint link 2 computers togther.is the way I would do it?)

Or could i get away with the ULN2, the pre-amps could be useful if i want to travel with my G4 powerbook.

Any Suggestions?

As you've probably worked out already if you need six outs (audio outs) then you'll need a 2882 as a ULN-2 only has 4 audio outs (main L, R and monitor L,R).

But the neat thing about a ULN-2 with a 2d card is that it has an 80 bit virtual mixer which you can use for summing. Making use of a character plugs which can simulate all sorts of different tonal flavours (i.e. like you're mixing through an SSL or a Neve desk). This is very nice. I guess the question for you is : can you get away with 2 audio inputs and 4 audio outputs? If not, then the 2882 is the way to go. Of course, the 2882 comes with 2d too.

Regarding the +dsp licence, which I have. There's an awful lot there and it's very good quality too. The core plugins (like the MIO strip) have a very nice sound. Top quality I would say...as good as Sonalksis plugs and better than Waves (just my personal opinion!). If you have a 2d card you don't need a +dsp licence for the MIO strip (and some other plugs)...which is a darn good deal I think.

My only gripe with the whole Metric Halo system (and I do love it ..I own two 2882's and a ULN-2 after all!)...is you can't just drop the plugins into your DAW directly. This may not be a big thing for some people (and I'm pretty sure Henry will be along in a minute to say how much this DOESN'T bother him). But I find it annoying, and it slows down my workflow...so much so that I usually end up using Sonalksis and Duende plugins, rather than flipping to the other mixer and using the MH plugs (not really a hardship I know).

Summing up:

pros

Great converters
ULN-2 pre's are great
Software is totally stable and very flexible
Plugins sound great
Amazing customer service

cons

You can't insert the plugins directly into your DAW
Metric Halo won't tell us if they're going to bring in this feature in the future (God I so hope they do!)

[Banjo]

Hi, in Logic, you can use an i/o send to use the MH as a dsp processor if you want or need to. The MIO strip works and sounds fine, better than Logic's own?, it's up to you to gauge that. The ability to create and save purpose built mixer arrangements gives such flexibilty , one for live, another for tracking, mixing...... etc. I've recently switched from Pt LE / 002 and it's a been an eye opener to find just what is available once you get your head out of the sand. Almost zero latency for headphone mixes makes tracking in a budget studio so much nicer. There is one other difference between the ULN2 and 2882, my ULN2 has knobs for all in/out, no grabbing the mouse and searching the screen for a slider. A minor point maybe, but to be taken into consideration if you have only one comp monitor.

[BigBadJohn]

I am a relatively new and very happy ULN-2 2d owner (also using logic and a new mac pro). I am kind of in-between in terms of the fact that using their mixer as my primary mixer did take a little getting used to for me. Actually I'm still getting used to it. But, it does offer its own kind of flexibility (like being able to name and save any mixer state in a folder). The routing options also seem very powerful, although I am just starting to really explore these. The plugs sound just wonderful, and I am planning to upgrade to +DSP. For the extra $700, I haven't seen anything that seems like it can compete for the quality and number of effects that MH is offering. Hope this helps.

John

[JFN - Sonalksis]

I have to through in a word for MH here.

Been using ULN-2 for years, and it's imho probably the greatest piece of audio interface equipment you can get for those money (and to top it you need to put in way much more funds). The pre-amps are REALLY quiet and sounds awesome (if you like clean transparent pre's), and the overall sound is stunning, ad/da and clock rox. You simply can't go wrong with a unit like ULN-2

I guess a 2d card would take care of your output needs for quite a while, though the built in digital out will serve you with the 5th and 6th output as well.


Good luck!

Cheers,
JFN

[macleodgrant]

hey Allen & BJ

i wanted to check with you guys; how do you feel about the fact that Apple have dropped friewire from the new macbook computer?

how do you feel about the future of firewire?

i have recently bought the MH2882 and i have the DUET, 2x Firewire Powercore & a MOTU 828MKII so have a lot invested in it

thanks in advance for your response

grant

[mh_bj]

Apple dropped FW from the Mac Book Air when it was originally released.
They have now dropped FW from the Mac Book (but not the Mac Book Pro).

It appears that as they grow their market share, that they are making a distinction between the Pro Products and the general consumer products, and apparently don't think that the FireWire interface applies to the consumer anymore. I'm not sure that I agree with that assesment, and if the comments on various Internet forums are any indication, there are clearly a large number of folks who post who want their FireWire. Now -- I don't know if that will have any effect on sales of the new MB. If it doesn't, then FireWire may be gone for good on the lower-end consumer machines. If Apple gets enough push-back from customers, you can be sure that it will reappear on an updated model (much as FW800 got dropped on the first Mac Book units and then was added back in a refresh).

Of course, there are plenty of Audio professionals that are drawn to the so-called "consumer" machines because they are very powerful and are small and lightwieght (as well as affordable). It seems to me that Apple has decided to draw a line in the sand and tell Professional users that Apple makes professional products and as a pro user, you need to be buying Pro Products -- because the consumer products don't meet your needs and are not expandable to meet your needs.

I think it is a bit sad.

On the other hand, I don't think that FW is going anywhere (on the Pro products) any time soon, and the the Pro Products all provide mechanisms to expand their I/O (like PCIe cards and Express cards). So I think FireWire as an interface is going to be around for some time to come -- you just may need to purchase Pro machines to get it.

As far as our thoughts about this moving forward, all I can say at this time is that Metric Halo has a demonstrated ongoing commitment to making our products future proof, and the potential eventual end of the availability of FireWire on the Mac definitely falls under this category. You can be sure that if that day comes (or maybe even before) that not only will the products that we are selling new adjust to deal with the best options for interfacing, but that every FireWire product that we have ever made will be upgradable or adaptable to deal with the circumstance. Perhaps other companies will provide similar solutions, but if history is a guide, I wouldn't count on it....

[macleodgrant]

thanks a lot for the response BJ

i was glad to get your response since it's seldom you get a developers opinion on such things.

i for one am really disappointed since as i pointed out i have so much invested in it...

thanks for your time and confirming future support for my 2882
grant

[anon]

Originally Posted by mh_bj

As far as our thoughts about this moving forward, all I can say at this time is that Metric Halo has a demonstrated ongoing commitment to making our products future proof, and the potential eventual end of the availability of FireWire on the Mac definitely falls under this category. You can be sure that if that day comes (or maybe even before) that not only will the products that we are selling new adjust to deal with the best options for interfacing, but that every FireWire product that we have ever made will be upgradable or adaptable to deal with the circumstance. Perhaps other companies will provide similar solutions, but if history is a guide, I wouldn't count on it....

Now that is what I call customer care, MH are the best on so many levels.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by timstoreymoses

The new Macs are pretty powerful, however the MH system isn't a DSP accelerator. It is possible to use the MH box as an entire recording system (as long as you need no automation!).

I just have to take exception to this comment. It's always bugged me. I use automation ALL THE TIME with the MH Mixer. I just keep my levels the same in the MH Mixer, at zero or all at -8 or something. Then I control my automation like I would regularly in the Logic/DP/whatever DAW mixer.

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I just have to take exception to this comment. It's always bugged me. I use automation ALL THE TIME with the MH Mixer. I just keep my levels the same in the MH Mixer, at zero or all at -8 or something. Then I control my automation like I would regularly in the Logic/DP/whatever DAW mixer.

but if you're using plugins in the MH mixer that respond to dynamic input, you're essentially modifying the input to those plugins and adjusting the level in relation to the threshold so the gain structure is screwed.

for reverbs, delays and other modulation fx this doesn't matter but maybe it does for the compressors, amp sims & character if it responds to level

[henryrobinett]

Well I'm monitoring after the MH fader, so I'm not screwed. I know what you're saying. We had a debate on the other thread about this.

[Reborn]

I work this same way using Totalmix and monitor off the Rme DSP mixer fader. This allows me to summ outside the Logic mixer and to my ear it is more transparent.


Jazztone

[matahari]

thanx for all the great info guys!!!