Safari-Browser for Windows

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by bcgood

I'm typing this while using Safari on my Windows XP PC. It is working very nicely and is very fast, works perfect with Gearslutz despite what others had posted. I'm liking it so far!

bcgood

How do you think it compares against Opera?
Because we have Safari on the Mac's at work, and I find it painfull.

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Have you used Opera?

Yes I have used it but I never got used to the UI.

Have you used Safari 3?

[Chuck Wool]

Opera is quite powerful, and as so requires the largest time investment. From my experience it is faster than IE or Firefox, but there was something about it that bugged me and I didn't get into it. IE to me is unusable, slow, & integrated into Windows in a bad way. I prefer Firefox and my collection of plugins. BTW for anyone using Windows on an older machine (or likes to keep their CPU cycles out of browsing), K-Meleon is like a low-tech Firefox (uses the same page rendering engine but less program overhead, less features). Camino is the equivalent for Mac.

ANYHOW -- I've seen Safari crash on Windows using two monitors, and generally am not too into Apple beta stuff (especially for Windows?) but I think it will grow to be just fine. They're getting their foot in the door, and this is a key move for them.

I have more professional experience building websites for years than audio, so I thought I'd chime in.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Henchman

It's called lying.
Just like they lied for years in Intel Vs PowerPC tests. Except when Apple started useing Intels, suddenly, the intels WERE faser. Weird eh?

I rally don't care what some stupid Ibench test shows for speed.
I've used various browsers, and Opera is, IMO, still the best.
i also liek the way it has emal integrated in it, like netscape used to have.

Agreed that Apple has been known to play fast and lose with benchmarks -- but neither of those numbers are Apple's numbers -- they've both been reported in a number of tech periodicals and are from 3rd part web metrics outfits... not sure of the methodologies -- or even if the widely repeated 5% is US-only or worldwide (which would be REALLY surprising). I THINK the 3% is worldwide. I think the last article where I rea both of them in the same article was at IT World.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by Henchman

It's called lying.
Just like they lied for years in Intel Vs PowerPC tests. Except when Apple started useing Intels, suddenly, the intels WERE faser. Weird eh?

I rally don't care what some stupid Ibench test shows for speed.
I've used various browsers, and Opera is, IMO, still the best.
i also liek the way it has emal integrated in it, like netscape used to have.

Then hire a lawyer and sue sue Steve Jobs for making false claims

[zvenx]

I think apple's users now make up about 6.5% and growing......three was i think over a year and more ago.
IGM: Online Mac market share continues rise
and
Market share for browsers, operating systems and search engines
rsp

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by zvenx

I think apple's users now make up about 6.5% and growing......three was i think over a year and more ago.
rsp

Thats what I heard too. But even if its lower its still a multi billion dollar market considering all the computers out there. I wonder what Dell, HP, Sony etc market share is?

An interesting question also is how many of the installed win xp are legit purchased copies?



zvenx: I saw you added some links, thats good news.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by zvenx

I think apple's users now make up about 6.5% and growing......three was i think over a year and more ago.
IGM: Online Mac market share continues rise
and
Market share for browsers, operating systems and search engines
rsp

Hmmm, yeah. Funny how only 5 months ago it was 2.4%

MacNN | Worldwide Mac market declines sequentially

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Then hire a lawyer and sue sue Steve Jobs for making false claims

Worked in England...

And it was a big embarrassment for Apple when the British government banned their G5 adverts.

And the US Better Business Bureau sanctioned Apple for false claims about the G5, as well.

By the time the BBB acted, the ads had already run their course, but the Bureau's National Advertising Division "determined that the evidence provided by Apple did not provide a reasonable basis for its broad unqualified claims that its Power Mac G5 is 'the world's fastest, most powerful personal computer' and that it 'edged out the competition on integer.'" They also said that other claims made by Apple were clearly false and should be removed from their marketing materals.

Apple told to halt 'world's fastest' claims for G5 | CNET News.com

So Henchman is certainly not making anything up about Apple's past problems with false advertising. And their benchmark fudging is notorious.

[zvenx]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Hmmm, yeah. Funny how only 5 months ago it was 2.4%

MacNN | Worldwide Mac market declines sequentially

:-)
I don't know what to tell you. I am holding on to the 6.5 and climbing though :-)
rsp

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by zvenx

:-)
I don't know what to tell you. I am holding on to the 6.5 and climbing though :-)
rsp

I would say it's probably somewhere i the middle of those 2 figure.

[hangman]

how exactly do they estimate market share for computers anyway?
seems like there would be a very big window of error

[theblue1]

Remember, Hench's figure was for world wide market share.

Mac market share in the US has grown in the last several years, though I'm not certain what it currently is. I do not believe it's significanly above 5%, though.

The 6.5% figure was for web-share -- which is a WHOLE different measurement.

It's a compilation of data on what browser on what OS makes requests of servers.

If you've ever looked at a thorough set of specs for a web site, you probably know that there are a lot of different ways to look at the data that servers accumulate: you can count requests for a given page or file; you can count the number of visitors; you can count the unique visitors for a given period (typically per day); you can count the bandwidth consumed in a given period by a given subset of visitors; the browser; the OS and sub version; the screensizes; a buncha junk.

At any rate, web share as it's normally talked about for something like a platform would typically mean how much of your traffic comes from a particular type of browser and/or OS.

So, if 3% of the computer users (Mac users) account for 6.5% of the web traffic -- we can infer then that Mac users spend an extraordinary amount of their time browsing the web, right?

Now... I believe I've seen other figures that show that Mac users are on the internet more than their PC bretheren -- but it's also been suggested that there are more PCs-per-PC-user than there are Macs-per-Mac user, presumably for historic reasons of expense as well as work habits and the near hegemony of Windows in the business world.

A lot of people have a work PC and a home PC. And, increasingly often, a laptop. Some people have garage PCs. (You need it for doing diagnostics these days, yeah?) And for many folks who have Macs at home -- they might still have a PC at the office.

So, those numbers don't necessarily mean -- as my friend who's the IT guy for a popular college coffee house (where there are often 20 or 30 laptops open and running) claims sarcastically -- that "While most of the PC laptop users are doing actual work on their computers, most of the Mac users are visiting MySpace." (Of course, he typically makes an exception from darkside productivity for me, since I'm usually browsing online newspapers on my roadwarrior Dell when I'm in there. I do productive work at home. I go to the coffeehouse to read the paper. I just do it on a computer. )

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Remember, Hench's figure was for world wide market share.

Mac market share in the US has grown in the last several years, though I'm not certain what it currently is. I do not believe it's significanly above 5%, though.

Well, we are talking about the world. The US is not the world, but a small part of it.
So, let's not twist figures to suit the Apple marketing team.
Market share is market share. And that means worldwide.
Next they'll wnat to narrow it down to "worldwide users who only use photoshop".

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Henchman

How do you think it compares against Opera?
Because we have Safari on the Mac's at work, and I find it painfull.

I've used Oprah but I didn't like it because it made me cry. But then it bought me a car for being in it's live audience so that made my day!

Harpo

bcgood

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Henchman

Well, we are talking about the world. The US is not the world, but a small part of it.
So, let's not twist figures to suit the Apple marketing team.
Market share is market share. And that means worldwide.
Next they'll wnat to narrow it down to "worldwide users who only use photoshop".

Right... I'm just suggesting that we need to start paying attention to just what these percentages mean that we're bandying about.

I think at least a few people thought that the 3% and the 6.5% were conflicting measures of the same thing -- when that couldn't be FARTHER from the truth, as I've previously noted.

They are not even apples and oranges. They are apples and tennis balls.

Market share and web share measure completely different things. There's no point in you guys going back and forth with those numbers and I'm sure you realize that, Hench -- but I'm not so sure others do...


Maybe I've just been hanging out here too long... it's getting me down.

[T_R_S]

Safari 3 had a million downloads in 2 days
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/14safari.html

[bcgood]

Make no mistake. Safari with iPhone is going to be like iTunes with iPod; and we all know how that went. I'm the driver, I'm the winner. Things are gonna change I can feel it.

bcgood