Ultimate Realistic Virtual Drums

[diskjunkie]

The options I am aware of are:

BFD

Groove Agent

EZdrummer

Strike

I am looking for something that will quickly and easily allow me to program my own realistic sounding drum performances w/out spending hours tweaking velocity settings and editing midi, or at least let me do this with the least amount of hours. I basically would love to program a beat and have the software 'humanize' it for me. I am also looking for flexible mixing options as I want to get just the right drum sound for me productions (somewhat lo-fi but with lots of rock compression).

Would love to hear people's experience with the above. I am sure they all have their strong and weak points, but perhaps you the users can point them out to me? I have BFD and like it a lot, but I am considering switching DAWs and Strike seems pretty interesting and would only be an option if I had a PT rig.

Anyway, thanks for the input.

[YellowMatter]

I just wanted to add Steven Slate Drums to your radar. While the version 2 isn't out yet, when it IS out, it will be a drum programmers wet dream. Over 20 snare choices, 15 kicks, multiple tom sets, and extremely detailed cymbals. And you'll be using the same sounds that are used in major commercial releases by some of today's biggest mixers. You'll need a sampler like Kontakt, Reason, EXS, GigaStudio, or Halion. That list will grow as well.

You mentioned ease of use and I can say that it will be quite easy to program our drum library. All the sounds are done and need no processing. They even have that classic 2 inch tape "saturation" which gives them a very wide and fat sound. Also, you don't have to worry about leakage from other drum mics, gating, or mixing in room mics, since you can just choose your room size with the Z system. Sorry I'm being Mr. Salesman but I'm so darn excited about the version 2 software!!!

[n8tron]

ns_kit7 at www.naturalstudio.co.uk is what I use.

It's very highly playable because of all the articulations it includes, and it sounds fantastic. Also, because of all of the velocity layers you will pretty much always get a different sample nearly every time you hit a key. No need to humanize

plus its 1/3 of the price of any other library if you already have kontakt or halion/halion player.

just check out the demos on the site and you will be amazed.

[Methlab]

If you are a good programmer then you have a shot. I use BFD, but if you think you can just set it up and get great drums with no tweaking, it's not gonna happen. You need templates, and that comes with time. There is no other way around it. I started off programming drums, and the progression I have made is very nice. I think of fills and accents now like a drummer would. I play the parts live and use light quantization.

Once you get your templates in BFD, you will be able to load up the kit and start playing right off the bat. This may take you a half a year to a year to learn to mix this kit so it sounds good. If you are a great drum mixer and programmer already, it will take a month or less to learn the tricks of BFD. You can dload the BFD guide to mixing drums which may help you out and speed things up.

Addictive drums is the fastest one out of the box to learn. It's a great program, but I believe BFD has better sounding drums. I use both now though for variety.

[heavypop]

My opinions:

the ones I've got:

BFD - Great sounding, needs quite some processing so sit right in the mix. Buggy, Not very user friendly.
EZdrummer - Great plug. Easy to use, a lot of midi beats (which are very good!)
ADDICTIVE DRUMS - you missed that one. Probably the best of all.

The ones I haven't got:
Groove Agent - Tried version 1. Fun but nothing more.
Strike - Never heard of.

[statikcat]

Get BFD. If you want tons of excellent midi grooves then buy Ezdrummer as well for that.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by heavypop

ADDICTIVE DRUMS - you missed that one. Probably the best of all.

+1

Definitely raises the bar. Some of the features have you saying... "Why didn't anybody else think of that?"

No need for opinions on this one.... TRY THE DEMO!

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Methlab

If you are a good programmer then you have a shot. I use BFD, but if you think you can just set it up and get great drums with no tweaking, it's not gonna happen. You need templates, and that comes with time. There is no other way around it. I started off programming drums, and the progression I have made is very nice. I think of fills and accents now like a drummer would. I play the parts live and use light quantization.

Once you get your templates in BFD, you will be able to load up the kit and start playing right off the bat. This may take you a half a year to a year to learn to mix this kit so it sounds good. If you are a great drum mixer and programmer already, it will take a month or less to learn the tricks of BFD. You can dload the BFD guide to mixing drums which may help you out and speed things up.

Addictive drums is the fastest one out of the box to learn. It's a great program, but I believe BFD has better sounding drums. I use both now though for variety.

Yes. What he said.

I have been very, very happy with BFD. But I LIKE to have drums sound pretty raw right outta the gate and add processing to taste.

I also have been programming drums for 15 years so BFD is a dream come true. If you are looking for ultimate flexibility BFD is the way to go I reckon. I haven't used Addictive Drums, but it looks like where I'd look if I wanted something a little "dumbed down" without sacrificing too much sound quality.

The stock kit is for BFD okay-ish, but the Albini kit (XFL?) is the bees-knees. People seem to really like the Andy Johns kits as well.

BFD 2 will have some changes to the UI I believe. That would be welcome in my opinion. It would be nice to "hide" some of it's flexibility at times.

[Methlab]

Deluxe is the Albini set and it is indeed awesome.

[manofsong]

There was a thread similar to this one like a week ago, but I'm too lazy to hunt and link. Yes, you MUST spend some time messing around with your first MIDI sequences -- from scratch or copied -- to fool other drummers out there (the ultimate realism test). I'm using Toontrack's Drumkit From Hell (DFH), which is basically the same concept as BFD. I prefer DFH's slightly more crispy and accurate sound. But same thing applies -- you have to mess with your initial MIDI to get the human feel!

And RE: Strike -- you can tell a lot from the decent .mp3 downloads. It sounds a bit short quality-wise to BFD or DFH, but it too has its own timbres. The interface might have some of the ease-of-randomization qualities you're looking for, but for the ultimate you should stick with your existing purchase of BFD (or get DFH) and "Keep on Clickin'!"

[Spectacle]

You mean this one?

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?p=1142670

Or this one?

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=101097

Or perhaps this one?

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=109662

[everybody's x]

ezdrummer is exactly that. real easy, sounds good and if you dont like the stock sounds drumagog them with your own samples

[diskjunkie]

Originally Posted by Methlab

If you are a good programmer then you have a shot. I use BFD, but if you think you can just set it up and get great drums with no tweaking, it's not gonna happen. You need templates, and that comes with time. There is no other way around it. I started off programming drums, and the progression I have made is very nice. I think of fills and accents now like a drummer would. I play the parts live and use light quantization.

Once you get your templates in BFD, you will be able to load up the kit and start playing right off the bat. This may take you a half a year to a year to learn to mix this kit so it sounds good. If you are a great drum mixer and programmer already, it will take a month or less to learn the tricks of BFD. You can dload the BFD guide to mixing drums which may help you out and speed things up.

Addictive drums is the fastest one out of the box to learn. It's a great program, but I believe BFD has better sounding drums. I use both now though for variety.

I am a good programmer, I get lots of compliments, even from my drummer friends. I guess the thing is I just want to make my life as easy as possible and get as realistic a sound as possible.

One thing that has been very hard to do, and I have not yet been able to accheive this with BDF (although I am sure it is possible) is get a convincing sounding ride on the crash symbol. There is this washyness that is in some rock drum recordings where the drummer is riding on the crash and its all just washy in such a great way. I think it probably has as much to do with the way you process the drums and what compressor you use as what samples you start with, but I thought this would be a bit easier in BFD.

Anyway I am pretty sure that with the flexibility of BFD I can accheive any drum sound I need.

[diskjunkie]

Originally Posted by heavypop

My opinions:

the ones I've got:

BFD - Great sounding, needs quite some processing so sit right in the mix. Buggy, Not very user friendly.
EZdrummer - Great plug. Easy to use, a lot of midi beats (which are very good!)
ADDICTIVE DRUMS - you missed that one. Probably the best of all.

The ones I haven't got:
Groove Agent - Tried version 1. Fun but nothing more.
Strike - Never heard of.

I did miss addictive drums. The sample clips sound great. What is it that you (and everyone else that has it) like so much about it? Why is it easier/better than BFD? Do you actually use the built-in effects?

Thanks!

[DAWgEAR]

For the Sounds:

Addictive Drums thumbsup

Steven Slate Drums thumbsup



For the performances and/or realistic/humanistic midi data:

Drumcore 2 thumbsup

(10 years old but still sounds human) Vamtech Drumtrax thumbsup

Beatboy midi patterns, especially Rod Morgenstein and Nigel Olsson thumbsup

Jamstix thumbsup



My $0.02

[DAWgEAR]

Originally Posted by diskjunkie

I did miss addictive drums ...why is it easier/better than BFD?

Sounds good (not necessarily better, but then again that is subjective). For me BFD's cymbals never did it, and I like AD's better.

Also, unlike BFD, it does not bring my computer to its knees at 96kHz.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by diskjunkie

I did miss addictive drums. The sample clips sound great. What is it that you (and everyone else that has it) like so much about it?

Unlike most software companies, they give you a full featured demo to try out, so that will give you more info than anything we can write here. From the FAQ

We did a lot of research before we built the AD sound library, and found that alternating samples is of much greater importance than very high number of layers. Of course you need enough layers "vertically" to cover the change in sound from soft to hard strokes. But more importantly we've added samples "horizontally", providing alternating samples in each layer. So hitting the snare at velo 110 repeatedly (like in a typical song) always gives you 5-6 different samples. Same with closed hihat, it needs alternating samples to sound realistic. We have alternating samples throughout AD, even in the cymbal chokes.

That's one of the best features. You CAN'T get the "machine gun" effect even if you try!

Why is it easier/better than BFD? Do you actually use the built-in effects?

The thing that makes it "easier" is that there are lots of presets which use the built in compressor, EQ, filter, and other effects (designed by PSP) to create unique sounding kits that would take a while to learn to do properly in BFD. You can start with a "produced" sound ready-to-go, or you can always turn off the internal effects and cook up your own sounds with the dry samples. For ex., use your UAD-1 compressors, Altiverb or whatever. Everything is tweakable. However, if you really want to produce dry samples, then BFD is probably more up your alley. I believe AD is geared more towards musicians and writers than professional engineers.

One more thing. Unlike BFD, you don't need to dedicate a hard drive and budget a copious amount of CPU to run the plug. The demo ran fine off the internal drive on my Powerbook G4, for example.

I did check into EZdrummer as well, but didn't think it was as versatile. I also agree with a poster from another thread that the sounds in EZ were a bit "plastic" sounding.

[diskjunkie]

Originally Posted by statikcat

Get BFD. If you want tons of excellent midi grooves then buy Ezdrummer as well for that.

I've got BFD and I don't really want midi grooves. I guess it could be interesting from a programing standpoint, but I hear the beats to my music in my head and they are not likely I am going to find that exact beat. I can use the midi grooves to demo, but when it comes down to it I will have to roll my own methinks.

I guess from your comment that the best thing about EZdrummer is the grooves? I do love BFD and I think with enough work I can get what I want from it, but I think I could possibly get closer. I think Addictive Drums may be the ticket. I am downloading the demo now.

[virtualsounds]

Well I can see that addictive drums ,ez drummer and Bfd are the 3 top plugins worldwide when it comes to drums..
From my studio experience I am working a lot on addictive drums and the more I treat them as a sound engineer the more they transform to the greatest plugin. Bfd on the other hand is difficult even for engineers, they demand too much time and hard drive space and when you working with bands and keep archive of 300gb to need more and more for Bfd it is not always easy.
As for the Ez drummer it is easy as it says but the sounds are indeed a little "plastic". This is perfect for anyone who is more into NOFX or california punk emo sound but it wont do good for ballads, simple rock or other stuff.
All these thoughts are about straight out of the box and not if you take your time. If you take your time, and treat them as an engineer all these plugins are amazing.
So ordering by time and easy we go from:
1) Ez Drummer
2) Addictive Drums
3) Bfd

[diskjunkie]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Unlike most software companies, they give you a full featured demo to try out, so that will give you more info than anything we can write here. From the FAQ

We did a lot of research before we built the AD sound library, and found that alternating samples is of much greater importance than very high number of layers. Of course you need enough layers "vertically" to cover the change in sound from soft to hard strokes. But more importantly we've added samples "horizontally", providing alternating samples in each layer. So hitting the snare at velo 110 repeatedly (like in a typical song) always gives you 5-6 different samples. Same with closed hihat, it needs alternating samples to sound realistic. We have alternating samples throughout AD, even in the cymbal chokes.

That's one of the best features. You CAN'T get the "machine gun" effect even if you try!

Yeah, this seems to me to be one of the major reasons I have to spend so long programing, to 'mask' the machine-gun tendency of samples+midi. I wish I could find software that would humanize both incoming velocity and timing information with grooves. I know bfd can do it for it's own grooves, but it would be really neat to find a program that would 'auto humanize' a midi drum loop.

Originally Posted by 6strings

The thing that makes it "easier" is that there are lots of presets which use the built in compressor, EQ, filter, and other effects (designed by PSP) to create unique sounding kits that would take a while to learn to do properly in BFD. You can start with a "produced" sound ready-to-go, or you can always turn off the internal effects and cook up your own sounds with the dry samples. For ex., use your UAD-1 compressors, Altiverb or whatever. Everything is tweakable. However, if you really want to produce dry samples, then BFD is probably more up your alley. I believe AD is geared more towards musicians and writers than professional engineers.

Yeah I have to say I really like the sound of that. BFD is so raw, which is what I like in that I've recorded real drums before and BFD sounds just like raw recorded drums. The thing is it is still a lot of work and experimentation for me to get the sound I want. I would not mind a little help in this regard.

I also love PSP and was planning on using their plugs on BFD anyway, so to have these bulit in is nice. I also like that AD does not lock you into using the effects. If I should come up with a processing trick of my own that requires a certain plug and multiple outs I can do it, but if I just want to plug and play it seems AD can do that too.

Originally Posted by 6strings

One more thing. Unlike BFD, you don't need to dedicate a hard drive and budget a copious amount of CPU to run the plug. The demo ran fine off the internal drive on my Powerbook G4, for example.

Yeah, its a real consideration. I bought a new macbook just so I could run bfd smoothly. Its funny that I may actually switch drum programs in the end. lol

Originally Posted by 6strings

I did check into EZdrummer as well, but didn't think it was as versatile. I also agree with a poster from another thread that the sounds in EZ were a bit "plastic" sounding.

Yeah the demo clips don't inspire me. This could be just the demos, but so far I like the sound of Addictive the best. I'm not crazy about the sounds of the Strike demo either, but some people seem so excited about it I started this thread to make sure I knew what my options were before deciding on a DAW since strike is PT only.

[diskjunkie]

Originally Posted by virtualsounds

Well I can see that addictive drums ,ez drummer and Bfd are the 3 top plugins worldwide when it comes to drums..
From my studio experience I am working a lot on addictive drums and the more I treat them as a sound engineer the more they transform to the greatest plugin. Bfd on the other hand is difficult even for engineers, they demand too much time and hard drive space and when you working with bands and keep archive of 300gb to need more and more for Bfd it is not always easy.
As for the Ez drummer it is easy as it says but the sounds are indeed a little "plastic". This is perfect for anyone who is more into NOFX or california punk emo sound but it wont do good for ballads, simple rock or other stuff.
All these thoughts are about straight out of the box and not if you take your time. If you take your time, and treat them as an engineer all these plugins are amazing.
So ordering by time and easy we go from:
1) Ez Drummer
2) Addictive Drums
3) Bfd

What a nice summary of what seems to be the consensus so far (more or less). Addictive Drums seems to be the perfect compromise, the 'middle path' of drum plugs if you will.

[thenoodle]

I still think BFD is the ultimate for sound or ease of use. Since it's now only $199 for the program, it's really a no brainer in my book.

[diskjunkie]

So I downloaded the trial of AD and I really like it. I can see how BFD could perhaps give you more flexibility in the long run, but this is not what is most important to me. Basically BFD reminds me 100% of recording drums (more or less), where as AD gives you a lot of tools you would not have with a recorded drum track, but that may give you the result you are looking for quicker. I'd say if you are used to recording live drums and have a workflow already in place for this you may even find BFD easier as you can basically use it exactly like a drum session.

For me AD is the way to go. I like the linear sample variation, to my ears this is very very important even though it is subtle. I also like the sound shaping tools built into the plug and the fact that they allow you to have different drum sounds to use as a starting point with your drum production. Besides it does allow you to route everything out individually, so in the end it may be able to match BFD in terms of flexibility.

Anyway, these are my impressions so far. I've triend to placed an order for AD but for some reason I cannot get their store to take my order (either that or its taken my order several times without giving me a confrimation). I've sent them a coupld of emails and so far nothing. Maybe I need to give them a call?

[DAWgEAR]

Originally Posted by diskjunkie

I've triend to placed an order for AD but for some reason I cannot get their store to take my order (either that or its taken my order several times without giving me a confrimation). I've sent them a coupld of emails and so far nothing. Maybe I need to give them a call?

XLN's support is outstanding, see their forum for examples. Chances are good you've already heard back as I type this. If not, it's probably because of Musikmesse going on right now.

A call might not be a bad idea if you're worried about multiple charges.

[diskjunkie]

Originally Posted by DAWgEAR

XLN's support is outstanding, see their forum for examples. Chances are good you've already heard back as I type this. If not, it's probably because of Musikmesse going on right now.

A call might not be a bad idea if you're worried about multiple charges.

Not yet, and its been a few days. I think the Messe is at fault. I'll give them till next week and then try another form of communication if I have not heard back via email. I am a bit concerend about multiple charges, but also about not being able to purchace the software as their site is the only place to buy it that I am aware of!

[Methlab]

I bought BFD 2 years ago and it is truly amazing. I really have to say that Addictive drums is also amazing too. I now own both, and I would recommend them both to anyone.

6strings has a spot on assessment of AD. Snare rolls sound unreal in AD. The name of the software is dead on because I will just sit down and play snare rolls and fills for fun to get my hands warmed up before I program, and they sound awesome...no machine gunning...The presets are also great to mess with.

Cons to me are the lack of sounds. Nothing can beat that DW kick in BFD. BFD just has awesome kick Drums, and AD has nice ones, but nothing that sticks out and wows me like BFD does. Same with snares....I wish there was a better selection there. I also am not sure how to reduce the ring in the snares in AD, and with BFD that is easily done.

But programming with AD is amazingly fun, I just did a song last night that has a lot of fills and detail and it was a pure pleasure to load it all up and make the beat. The fills had a lot of impact and the hats really swing like they should.

The stability and load time of AD is far superior then BFD also. AD is just a simple clean load and it NEVER crashes. I have had wierdness with BFD many times, so I am glad to have another drum program as a backup in case BFD decides to be stupid and crash on me.

I am sure the FXpansion boys have this program and are hopefully enhancing BFD. 1 thing about AD that slays BFD is the MIDI layout it comes in. First off, all the hits are layed out for you on the keyboard. On BFD, you have to set it up yourself if you want every hit, and it's a pain. AD even has right and left hand snare hits mapped out, which makes it WAY more fun to play right out of the box. The MIDI layout of AD is a programmer's dream. I haven't mixed down the song I am doing yet, but AD could end up being a better mix then BFD..we will see...it's a magical program no doubt. I think everyone who programs drums should own both.

[diskjunkie]

Originally Posted by Methlab

I bought BFD 2 years ago and it is truly amazing. I really have to say that Addictive drums is also amazing too. I now own both, and I would recommend them both to anyone.

6strings has a spot on assessment of AD. Snare rolls sound unreal in AD. The name of the software is dead on because I will just sit down and play snare rolls and fills for fun to get my hands warmed up before I program, and they sound awesome...no machine gunning...The presets are also great to mess with.

Cons to me are the lack of sounds. Nothing can beat that DW kick in BFD. BFD just has awesome kick Drums, and AD has nice ones, but nothing that sticks out and wows me like BFD does. Same with snares....I wish there was a better selection there. I also am not sure how to reduce the ring in the snares in AD, and with BFD that is easily done.

But programming with AD is amazingly fun, I just did a song last night that has a lot of fills and detail and it was a pure pleasure to load it all up and make the beat. The fills had a lot of impact and the hats really swing like they should.

The stability and load time of AD is far superior then BFD also. AD is just a simple clean load and it NEVER crashes. I have had wierdness with BFD many times, so I am glad to have another drum program as a backup in case BFD decides to be stupid and crash on me.

I am sure the FXpansion boys have this program and are hopefully enhancing BFD. 1 thing about AD that slays BFD is the MIDI layout it comes in. First off, all the hits are layed out for you on the keyboard. On BFD, you have to set it up yourself if you want every hit, and it's a pain. AD even has right and left hand snare hits mapped out, which makes it WAY more fun to play right out of the box. The MIDI layout of AD is a programmer's dream. I haven't mixed down the song I am doing yet, but AD could end up being a better mix then BFD..we will see...it's a magical program no doubt. I think everyone who programs drums should own both.

Meth, I had a quick question for you. When you have the complete version of AD how many octaves of the keyboard does it take up? The demo I think it two octaves, is the complete version three? Do you program with the keyboard or with something like trigger finger? In the end I would love to be able to 'play' the drums in live on a midi controller and edit as little as possible to get a convincing performance.

Thanks!

[6strings]

Originally Posted by diskjunkie

I've triend to placed an order for AD but for some reason I cannot get their store to take my order (either that or its taken my order several times without giving me a confrimation). I've sent them a coupld of emails and so far nothing. Maybe I need to give them a call?

Yeah, I had trouble with the first two credit cards I tried to run through. The third card worked. If you get that authentication error, try a different credit card.

They say they are aware of the problems and would fix the online shop but are currently focused on working out deals with distributors. It will be nice to pick up their future expansion packs at Sweetwater (or whoever ends up selling AD stuff) and not have to deal with overseas purchasing and shipping...

[roebeardie]

recently got my copies of toontracks dfh Superior and the custom & vintage add-on. made my choice totally dependent on the demos on their website.

after installing and playin around for a couple of hours I really got into their concept of simulating a real recording of a drumset, the selection of sets and instruments is very versatile and just sounds like the real thing.

[heavypop]

Originally Posted by diskjunkie

I did miss addictive drums. The sample clips sound great. What is it that you (and everyone else that has it) like so much about it? Why is it easier/better than BFD? Do you actually use the built-in effects?

Thanks!

Because you can alter things like pitch envelope etc. And the drums sound REAL HOT.