Sony Oxford (Sonnox) still good? =>now with Paul Frindle replys :D

[Morten Hjort]

I currently own Sonalksis comp & EQ and I'll stay with them, but now that Sony Oxfords have it's entire line in AU, I'm considering them to use for general purpose for sounddesign. Are thay still in the "elite"-ballpark or has there come too many just-as-good alternatives the last year (CSR, UAD, Powercore, URS, Sonalksis)?

I have been thinking of buying the complete bundle but how's the reverb compared to IK Multimedia's CSR and Limiter compared the standard stuff on the Powercore?

[George Necola]

did you see the sticky on top of the forum?

[Morten Hjort]

Yep, but they are not discussing the quality of the plugin very much, but If you think there's too many S.O. topics your'e welcome to put it in there or tell me to copy-paste it in, so you can delete this topic...

[davebl@dircon.c]

Yes, these are the very best. Buy as many as you can afford. The reverb is not suround capable at this time but still very good as a non convolution reverb. use TL space if you need suround.

We used these consistently in asound dubbing and design area with 3 protools operational with great sucsess.

[recall]

I only have the eq, but can absolutely say its the most useful eq I have. Its fantastic. I hav tried demos of the inflator and trans mod and those are fantastic as well.

I hesitate to download the demos of the dynamics and reverb because once I start tryin g them I'm sure i'll want to purchase them...and at the moment I can't afford that.

So yes...go for it if you can afford it.

[4damind]

They are all at a very high level. But its not a "must have" if you always own a UAD, Sonalksis or URS plugins.

Request your 15 day trial and form you own opinion about the Sony plugins. The best you can do.

[Morten Hjort]

I own the Sonalksis Comp and EQ, but the only other reverb I have is Spacedesigner and I don't any limiter (Logic's own is to bad to call a limiter)... Hmmm

[zebastian21]

Originally Posted by Morten Hjort

I own the Sonalksis Comp and EQ, but the only other reverb I have is Spacedesigner and I don't any limiter (Logic's own is to bad to call a limiter)... Hmmm

I just found that the Logic's Enveloper can be as good as the Sony Transmod.

[Morten Hjort]

I can get the bundle for 650$, so would it be stupid not to buy it eventhough I own the Sonalksis com and eq?

[jdjustice]

the Sony limiter and reverb are awesome.
at that price you should go for it if you need a good mastering limiter and a good non-convolution reverb (with very tweakable parameters).

plus you get the excellent other tools (eq, dynamics, transmod, inflator)!!

[Improv]

Ok.... one more gushfest from me about the Dynamics. I love 'em and couldn't live without 'em! Tons of control without being unintuitive in any way. Excellent metering... You see what you hear. I feel the gain reduction is very transparent at high GR compared to other plugs, and the warmth knob is actually very useful! Rarely do I not use it on bass to some degree. And it's the only compressor/expander combo that actually helps minimize rides efficiently and transparently without wasting an hour (in fact, it takes less than a minute these days).

Get it!

But inflator? It's cool the first time you use it if you know what I mean.

[esteso]

Well how does Inflator compare to the Enhance function on the Limiter? I know Paul Frindle has said it's a similar process. I'm curious because I have (and love) the Limiter, would only get Inlator if significantly diifferent.

thx

[cl516]

i have the whole flood of waves renn, waves SSL, sonalksis, URS, elemental, etc.
i held off on the sony EQ, but bought the dynamics almost right away.

[Ruudman]

Originally Posted by Improv

But inflator? It's cool the first time you use it if you know what I mean.

It's cool the 2nd an 3rd time as well if you know what you're doing


ruudman

[Jesse Skeens]

Dynamics is still doing it for me. Prefer it over the others mentioned. It's one of those desert island plugins.

[preben]

Despite having a Duende and a UAD the Sony Oxford suite (powercore admittedly) is still my go-to for just about everything.

[sweetjesus]

Originally Posted by preben

Despite having a Duende and a UAD the Sony Oxford suite (powercore admittedly) is still my go-to for just about everything.

hello,

please tell me more... i currently have a duende on trial and the sound quality is quite extraordinary compared to other plugins i have tried over the years.

i dont have ilok as im just getting up and running with gear in my new business/studio but it looks like i'll have to buy one to try all these fantastic plugins demos.

i do make electronic music and for me the duende is nothing short of 'phat' :) im very interested in the sony range too though.

[Paul Frindle]

Originally Posted by esteso

Well how does Inflator compare to the Enhance function on the Limiter? I know Paul Frindle has said it's a similar process. I'm curious because I have (and love) the Limiter, would only get Inlator if significantly diifferent.

thx

I have just come across this post.

I don't know where I have supposed to have said that the inflator and limiter are similar?! But they are not at all and are definitely not interchangeable in any way.

The inflator very basically speaking is a special kind of 'distortion generator' that has no dynamic activitiy over time, in other words it's a static process (i.e. it is not a compressor). It is designed to give the impression of loudness by providing the harmonic cues we associate with loud and stressed sounds - and increase the harmonic density of the programme in a way that is sympathetic to the ear.

------------

The enhance function of the limiter is a special kind of dynamic process that does not add distortion to steady state signals. It works over time, programme history, peak and average levels and LR stereo differences to limit the signal and squash peak events, whilst providing the listener with the impression that the peaks are still there! In this way it can sympathetically remove peak events so that you can provide more transparent limiting, or make the programme even louder without causing sample value overs.

It is used after the main leveller in the limiter application to allow you to use slower and softer attack times (which sound much more musical - particularly on percussion), without risking clipped sounds or overs due to peak overshoots.

If you select 'safe' mode the enhancer is always actively controling peaks - and the enhance slider lets you adjust the dynamic action from fairly neutral (where minimum audible differences occur) to full loudness increase (where it might get to sound ropey on some programme types).

---------------------------------------------

If you try to use the limiter and the inflator together you get mixed results depending on the programme. Although they have totally different ways of working and provide different effects, they can accentuate the side effects of each other in a way that can be counter productive and end up sounding worse.

Generally putting the inflator after the limiter (with the limiter's enhance wound up) will not increase the loudness very much before it starts to sound nasty. The reason for this is that the inflator makes the action of the enhancer more obvious.

Putting the inflator before the limiter is more successful in producing a grungy sheen to the programme, but will not really make it sound that much louder. SO the best settings for the inflator in this case is with the curve set to in the range from -ve to half way.

I hope this is helpful :-)

[Bob Yordan]

Thanx Paul, for the info on the Limiter & Inflator.

[ten]

Yes, thanks for the info. The limiter sounds the mutts nuts on most things, love it !!

Are there any new Sonnox plugs in the works, Paul ? :)

tom

[Paul Frindle]

Originally Posted by ten

Yes, thanks for the info. The limiter sounds the mutts nuts on most things, love it !!

Are there any new Sonnox plugs in the works, Paul ? :)

tom

I do not know, I haven't been there for more than a year. The limiter was the last app I designed for Sony. I am really glad that you like it :-)

[ten]

Oh, thats a shame. Are you working on anything else at the moment or planned?

tom

[bonne]

Originally Posted by Paul Frindle

If you try to use the limiter and the inflator together you get mixed results depending on the programme. Although they have totally different ways of working and provide different effects, they can accentuate the side effects of each other in a way that can be counter productive and end up sounding worse.

Hi Paul,

Just bought the six-pack VST bundle. Very pleased with it. Great sounding stuff.

I have a question of a similar nature concerning the "warmth" feature in the Dynamics plug. Is this similar to or related to the processes in the Inflator or the Limiter? Would you recommend using "warmth" before any of those and if so do you have any guidelines for optimal (most transparent) results.

A Sonnox betatester mentioned on another forum that the native VST versions use floating point processing, but are otherwise identical to the DSP versions. Can you confirm this? Is that 32-bit float?

Thank you!

Jørn Bonne

[Football]

Hey Paul,

I hope you would consider letting us know if you are working on anything. You have many admirers around here.

[Lagerfeldt]

Paul, that was a very very good explanation.

[Paul Frindle]

Originally Posted by bonne

Hi Paul,

Just bought the six-pack VST bundle. Very pleased with it. Great sounding stuff.

I have a question of a similar nature concerning the "warmth" feature in the Dynamics plug. Is this similar to or related to the processes in the Inflator or the Limiter? Would you recommend using "warmth" before any of those and if so do you have any guidelines for optimal (most transparent) results.

Ok, the warmth processing on the dynamics plug is much closer to the inflator in action (than the limiter enhance). It is conceived and optimised to allow a degree of overshoot from the comp limiter whilst avoiding clipping (when set to maximum), with minimum degradation of the programme. It also provides some 'sheen' to the sound of the programme - hence the name.

Generally it is a bad idea to use this if you are going to follow the dynamics directly with the inflator as the ill effects will get accentuated. However if you use the dynamcs in the channel on instrument contributions to the mix, the warmth can be used more freely (as well as master buss processing), because the other mixed sounds effectively produce a whole new signal for the buss processing to work on.

A Sonnox betatester mentioned on another forum that the native VST versions use floating point processing, but are otherwise identical to the DSP versions. Can you confirm this? Is that 32-bit float?

I was not involved in porting to the VST versions, but all host processing versions (RTAS, AS and VST) run in floating point native to the host processor. However great care was taken with the host versions to provide exactly the same result as the TDM fixed point versions - for obvious reasons.
Also it's important to remember that any process that has reference to absolute level (i.e. all dynamics and any non-linear process like the inflator) must refer to the intended output range - and this is always fixed point (the world is NOT floating point). So the same references must be installed within both the float and fixed versions.

[Paul Frindle]

Originally Posted by Football

Hey Paul,

I hope you would consider letting us know if you are working on anything. You have many admirers around here.

That is far too kind - I don't deserve any admiration at all. I'm just someone that spent my whole working life (and most of my childhood fiddling) in audio and music, who was lucky enough to get the chance to turn some of the ideas and sounds in my head into products :-)

As ideas go, my existing efforts for Sony (and previously SSL) have barely scratched the surface of the ideas and artistic notions I have accumulated over the decades, that I am as eager as ever to develop. So rest assured that I am not simply going to stop now - there's loads still to do :-)

[bonne]

Generally it is a bad idea to use this if you are going to follow the dynamics directly with the inflator as the ill effects will get accentuated.

Thanks for clearing that up, Paul. How about following the Dynamics/Warmth processing, with the Limiter. Is this a safer route in your experience. Let's say you need extra gain to fit a quiet track with other stronger tracks in mastering.

However great care was taken with the host versions to provide exactly the same result as the TDM fixed point versions - for obvious reasons.

In an Oxford thread on PSW one of the posters wrote: "Yep, the VST versions support 32 bit float, with all the commensurate advantages (and the slight loss of accuracy when rescaling overs...)"
Is this claim correct?

One last question, Paul, if I may: Does the dither processing in the Limiter include an "auto blanking" function to remove dither noise when program has been faded out to no sound?

[Paul Frindle]

[quote=bonne;1275609]

Originally Posted by Paul Frindle

Thanks for clearing that up, Paul. How about following the Dynamics/Warmth processing, with the Limiter. Is this a safer route in your experience. Let's say you need extra gain to fit a quiet track with other stronger tracks in mastering.



In an Oxford thread on PSW one of the posters wrote: "Yep, the VST versions support 32 bit float, with all the commensurate advantages (and the slight loss of accuracy when rescaling overs...)"
Is this claim correct?

Hmm.. there have been many discussions about the so called advantages and losses of float. There is no point in going over all this again, as the very persistance of the discussion shows that people are not understanding it, however much is written about it.
But just to say there are no such 'advantages and losses' as far as the plugs we have designed are concerned. If you find any it's because there is a bug and this should be reported to the support guys for fixing.

One last question, Paul, if I may: Does the dither processing in the Limiter include an "auto blanking" function to remove dither noise when program has been faded out to no sound?

If by this you mean that the dither disappears if the track goes silent, or you reduce the gain to nothing - no of course not :-)

A data stream without dither (and all stuck at zero) is NOT a digital audio signal at all. Obviously 'data' does not take up the property of being anything at all - until it carries an appropriate signal.

[kinnyboy]

Paul , this is addressed to you if you don't mind?!

Someone in the Logic Pro forums directed me to this thread as I posted this question there.
When putting fx on the master buss for the final stage are you meant to use the Inflator or the Limiter or both?? The manual for both suggests you use each plug in for getting those peaks up there and a nice large level ready for cd but I cant find any info as to whether or not these 2 can be used in tandem. Its not that im trying to win the loudness war with the next guy but want to understand so I can at least compete!! I can seem to get a good level with the inflator and then when I add the Limiter im getting some distortion and vice versa. I feel sure they should be able to work together though. Im presuming that the Limiter is second in the chain as it does the dithering which I intend to use. Pulling down the inputs of the plug-ins to get rid of the distortion seems to work but then im not hitting digital zero anymore and obviously one of the functions of these plug ins is to max out the loudness. Obviously my lack of knowledge in what these things do and some of their settings is evident here and some practice is needed but I feel fortunate that you may be one of the best people to get some insight from. Hope you can help. Many thanks for all your comments on this forum as they are invaluable.


Craig