One really good thing about Garage Band

[BrianT]

I think the inclusion of a good, realtime timestretch function in Garage Band will finally force Nuendo, SX, Logic, DP, Samplitude and maybe even Digi, to include the same in their apps.

Let's see, Acid came out how many years ago? About 5 years, IIRC. 'Bout time.


Regards,
Brian T

[BevvyB]

Do you think you'll be using it for the first steps of anything 'serious'?

[carmen]

samplitude already has realtime timestretch. as for the rest..sure. its funny how nuendo users were whining when SX got new features first, but are logic users whining now a $49 prog has a lot of stuff not even in logic yet,, well i guess theyll get the toys eventually..

[Jules]

Cant Albiton Live to that streeeeeetch Thang too?

[steveH]

"well i guess theyll get the toys eventually.."


Absolutely! That is the whole game behind the incredible Logic Pro deal. After we all buy, then all the updates-for-money will come.

I'm sure EXS-24 will hit mkIII and Logic will hit 7 with time stretching, etc.

[mplancke]

Originally posted by BrianT
I think the inclusion of a good, realtime timestretch function in Garage Band will finally force Nuendo, SX, Logic, DP, Samplitude and maybe even Digi, to include the same in their apps.

Regards,
Brian T

Brian

Samplitude has had this for about the last two or three years IIRC. It also has real time pitch shifting built in.

Mark

[keyboardman]

Hi Brian

I heard that the "Acid-like" features in GB will be a part of Logic 7. I think they refer to that technology as "Apple Loops"...sounds like a cereal!

[007]

Indeed, LOGIC 7, due out this summer, will incorportate that function, just like in Ableton Live. Yet another reason why I'm switching to Logic.

[tunesmith]

I was at a session all day today in a home studio running Cubase SX on a Carrilon computer.

I have GUI envy.

I distrust Steinberg immensely due to my experiences trying to use their crappy plugins and insturments, but I had to confess that right now, their GUI kicks Logic's ass.

I guess Samplitude is even better? Sheesh. Ignorance was bliss.

I am not even considering a switch, but I hope Apple kicks some and takes some when L7 comes out.

Tunes

[Mordecai]

I haven't used either, but am thinking about what I want to get when I get into the software arena. (Right now I'm using a Roland VS-2480).

I've watched some of my colleagues operate in Cubase SX, but I've also been told Logic is the way to go. What did you see in Cubase, that is not available in Logic at this point?

[BrianT]

Originally posted by carmen
samplitude already has realtime timestretch.

Samplitude may have timestretch, but the implementation is nowhere near Acid or Ableton Live! For instance, Acid and Live! have:

1. Instant audition of any loop during project Play, starting in correct time, at any current project tempo, by just cliicking on the loop.

2. Automatic looping of any duration just by dragging the object edge.

3. All loops instantly adapt/stretch to any change in project tempo.

4. No hard feelings, but superior sonic results, at least in realtime.

There is franky no comparison, as currently implemented in Samplitude 7. Have you guys seriously used Acid or Live? We're not talking about the same thing here. With Live! ReWired to SX, Nuendo, Logic, etc there is simply no comparison.

However, there is no reason why Samplitude could not mimic that behaviour. My point is, I think the feature set in GarageBand will force some rethinking about what is "good enough" in a pro DAW.


Regards,
Brian T

[007]

Originally posted by Jules
Cant Albiton Live to that streeeeeetch Thang too?

Jules,

Live is an amazing tool that certainly has it's place in any studio. You should try the demo!

www.ableton.com

[excellrec]

Instant audition of any loop during project Play, starting in correct time, at any current project tempo, by just cliicking on the loop.

I see this as the key factor, i spend at least nine tenths of my time in acid auditioning, the actual stretching it in say... cubase or whatever, usually isn't what takes so long....it's trying to envision what it would sound like in time, that and the auto preview function.... personally i rather see acid step up they're program! Most importantly....how it records and manages audio files!

[richiecc]

Originally posted by krou
Indeed, LOGIC 7, due out this summer, will incorportate that function, just like in Ableton Live. Yet another reason why I'm switching to Logic.

The audio engine in Logic is now about 5 or 7 years old (im not certain). for instant timestretching to be implemented like (Ableton Live) would require a full rewrite of the code from the bottom up. Logic is without a doubt the most clunky of all all the DAWs out there when it comes to Audio manipulation. I hope it does happen, but I also hope that Apple take a long hard serious look at Logics interface because its terribly convulted. With Logics current audio engine real time elastic audio is impossible to be implemented.


As for Pro tools, again it would need a full re-write of the code to implement this feature. Im just not sure about Logic having this in the summer. if it does it will look radically different from what it is now.

I look forward to Logic being updated.Buit the die hard Logic users wont be. They dont want any changes and most of them are trapped in time and really cant see the faults and how dated Logic is today. Logic was great 4 years ago, but theres new kids on the block that can seriously kick logics ass in every dept.

After using some of the new stuff its difficult to go back to Logic with its complicated interface and 18th century audio editing capabilities. I ditched it after using Ableton Live and my productivity has gone up by about 50%


rant rant rant




PS
Am I the only one in the world that thinks Logics mixer faders are the most amateur, toy town looking ones of all the DAWs out there? 10cm faders are industy standard then............

[BrianT]

Originally posted by richiecc

PS
Am I the only one in the world that thinks Logics mixer faders are the most amateur, toy town looking ones of all the DAWs out there? 10cm faders are industy standard then............

Frankly, the commitment to doing nearly everything via the Environment, while granting flexibility, seriously compromises Logic in both visuals and efficiency.

Open the Audio Mixer in Logic and just have a look. If you were to really try, could you find a less efficient use of screenspace? I don't think so. At 1280 wide, you see precious little actual control over audio per screen. Large track counts have you sliding/paging/hunting/pecking around to work. And hey, how about the completely unintuitive way in which you assign audio divers, audio objects, softsynths, etc?

It's like an IQ test designed by a sadist. Oh yeah, I figured it all out. But then I realized that by basing nearly everything audio on Environment Objects, while it might create the ability for the end user to "roll his own" GUI in a sense, Emagic had trapped itself in a very limited box, as far as the operation, look, and feel of the GUI.

Until Emagic/Apple rewrite the GUI and use dedicated, custom written graphics for many display and input functions currently handled by Environment Objects, Logic will remain audio unfriendly.


Regards,
Brian T

[richiecc]

Originally posted by BrianT
Frankly, the commitment to doing nearly everything via the Environment, while granting flexibility, seriously compromises Logic in both visuals and efficiency.

Open the Audio Mixer in Logic and just have a look. If you were to really try, could you find a less efficient use of screenspace? I don't think so.
Brian T

totally agree with you Brian....So Im not the only one that doesnt like the Logic mixer design. I simply cannot fathom why they chose tiny little faders when theres all that unused real estate. Automatiing those faders with a mouse is hysterical..........especially when you see someone else doing it. Their face just looks 'Constipated'....Yep Logic sure is teh creative musos dream daw...

mention this over at Sonikmatter where the Logic die hards work out regularly and youll be greeted with every excuse known to man why Logic doesnt need larger faders.

The bottom line is it looks and feels amateur and should be included with a Lucky Bag for age 3-5

(A lucky bag for those that dont know is a bag of sweets with a surprise gift. im sure I seen the Logic mixer in there as a child)

[logichead]

I use Logic and generally love it. There is room for improvement though, and I agree that the mixer page is a bit kludgey. I'm always scrolling around trying to find the fader I want.

The biggest concern for me though, is Apple's involvement. I went to an Apple/Emagic Logic Pro "preso" (Applespeak for "presentation") this week. What was billed as a 1 hour Logic Pro event started out with an iPod commercial, went on to iTunes, Garage Band, a little on Soundtrack, a lot on OSX and G5's, and finally, after the hour was almost gone, Logic Pro. A bit of a drag for those of us that had put in a full day's time in front of studio monitors. (The event continued on for another hour, and I did pick up some useful info, but my time is precious to me - I had to skip dinner to get to the "preso" and missed another meeting I was scheduled for to finally hear what I came for.)

This was an echo of what happened at the Emagic "preso" at the NAMM show.

Nowhere was there any indication that Apple wants to know what audio pros / Logic users want. (They were very interested in telling us what they want us to buy.)

I've got a little list:

1. A dual boot G5. Yes, I know how great OSX is. I know Apple doesn't want to support OS9. No matter, many music pros need dual boot machines (or 2 machines) until the OSX transmoogrification process is complete. (At least the "preso-ers" aknowledged that OSX is still evolving.)

2. While we're at it, how about new, faster G5's? The current ones (except the dual 1.8) are overdue for replacement. Is it too much to ask that a single G5 fit in a standard 19" rack? More slots - more drive bays.

3. Core Audio that addresses more than one device.

4. Autonomy for the Emagic group, at least as far as the "presos" go.

That's all for now....H

[ToddS]

Speaking of new faster G5s, has anybody heard the rumor of Apple bringing back the "Quadra" brand? If true apparently Apple is going to make a Quadra G5, meaning, according to the rumor, 4 G5 processors in one computer.