Finding vocal key

[88fingerz]

Your post makes me wonder about the infinite number of "engineers" who don't even ask this question, simply turning on Autotune in auto mode and crossing their fingers.

If you need this question answered, you might do best to not tune/detune anything!

This is clearly the reason I hear A.T. on almost every pop/dance release, usually set Wrong!

T.V. broadcasts too!

If you're not blessed with precise tuning recognition skills, please oh please put DOWN the AutoTune (or Waves' Tune, Melodyne, etc).

[D-Sane]

Isn't it usually in the same key as the music???

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by 88fingerz

Your post makes me wonder the infinite numbar of "engineers" who don't even ask this question, simply turning on Autotune in auto mode and crossing their fingers.

If you need this question answered, you might do best to not tune/detune anything!

This is clearly the reason I hear A.T. on almost every pop/dance release, usually set Wrong!

T.V. broadcasts too!

If you're not blessed with precise tuning recognition skills, please oh please put DOWN the AutoTune (or Waves' Tune, Melodyne, etc).

Hey 88 don't kill this dudes willingness to learn and ask questions..I would be highly careful not to discourage questions here on this forum...

As far as the posters question...unless you have training not blessing in pitch recognition...and yes this is a taught skill.. Then its gonna be hard to use auto tune... I woulc suggest sitting down with the band detemining the key of the tune and then working with the singer to get him or her to stay in key in the studio... Auto tune is a good thing to use if you have lots of patience and have good pitch recognition skills...

However its natural to go in and out of key...vibratos and such are normal for instruments and voice..


I would think... Does this vocal track need auto tune? Like does the vocal track need a boost at 3K or a cut at 300 to make it pop out a bit?!


Ask questions and fukk lots of things up...that's how we learn!

[davetron5000]

I would not use auto-tune in "automatic" mode, as it will over or undercorrect things. I would use it in manual mode to correct problem areas. It is time consuming, but the end result will be far superior and more natural sounding.

The key of the vocal melody is probably the key of the song, but you don't need to know it to use auto-tune effectively. Knowing the key can help you correct a note that's in between two pitches (since the "correct" note will be whichever is in key), but usually your ears can be helpful in this regard (i.e. if you correct to the wrong pitch, things will have gotten worse, so you can go back and use the second-choice pitch).

Basically, select a phrase you wish to correct and play the phrase so auto-tune can map the pitches of the melody. The result will be a graph showing the pitch. Hopefully, your ears can tell you where things are wrong and you can draw in the correct pitch. It's been my experience that more than a half step off and auto-tune will sound unnatural and not very good. So, you are looking to fine-tune things.

Once you've drawn the corrected pitch map, play the phrase again with Auto-Tune in pitch correction mode and viola, you've just done it. Now repeat for the rest of the song.

You need your ears to identify the areas for correction, but you do not need some superhuman perfect pitch to use auto-tune. And with practice, it gets easier.

[HEADROOM]

Having some sort of reference keyboard at hand could be helpful....




nickoosterhuis.com

[sekim]

Originally Posted by 88fingerz

Your post makes me wonder the infinite numbar of "engineers" who don't even ask this question, simply turning on Autotune in auto mode and crossing their fingers.

Selecting auto mode isn't a problem. Selecting 'chromatic' or worse yet, the wrong scale all together, is when the problems are created. An evening googling "music theory scales" is often enough to get someone up to speed enough to at least choose the right scale for AT for the particular song/vocal...

[Hope209]

Well, thanks for the kinder responses!

What I do is use my acoustic guitar and noodle around until I find any sharps or flats that are being played, but I was wondering if anybody had any better methods. I can tell when a note is out of tune or out of key, but I can't tell just by hearing it what note it is.

[mrbowes]

How do you guys find out what key the vocal is in when it comes time for tuning?

Maybe I'm missing someting from your context, but I always just listen for the root note - it should be obvious. Once you have the root, try to extrapolate from the mood of the tones if it's major, minor, etc. If you need a reference, use a keyboard.

but I can't tell just by hearing it what note it is.

Congrats, you don't have perfect pitch. Work on your relative pitch, carry a tuning fork, and bam, you'll be able to nail down the tones in no time.

[JesseJ]

It might be you formulated your question 'wrong', but...

I think you need some music theory lessons. You can get them online, cd, dvd, etc, but I recommend paying a good local teacher for some hands-on tuition for a year or so to get the basic knowledge of scales, chords and modes, then you can even start harmonizing!

I am sorry to say, but your question up there sounded to me as scary as this line:
"I just bought a knife and want to know an easy way to operate and connect a pacemaker for my dad who has a heart problem.", no pun, but really, you simply shouldn't try to tune something if you don't know how to tune. Just because you own a screwdriver doesn't mean you should open yout TV set and start messing inside...

[Screwdio]

Write down the lyrics to the tune. Play the vocal melody note by note on a keyboard or guitar. Write each note of the melody above the corresponding word of the lyrics. This will give you a good start to at least know where to manually shift the pitches to. It will also help determine what notes are in and out of key relative to the key of the song.

[Igotsoul4u]

A little theory goes a long way. Go to your local college and ask for a tutor. You will probably learn what you need to know in 1 or 2 sessions. Piano lessons are always good too.

[Jonathan Starr]

Be aware that many songs use several keys. The key may change from verse to chorus or bridge etc. If, for example (as in one folk/rock song I play bass to in a local band) you have an A major in the verse and an A minor in the bridge, it's likely a change of key.

Some jazz standards, including some well known Brazilian songs, keep changing keys in a rotating progression. My humble brain cells remain in awe of players who can successfully improvise over that stuff.

[FossilTooth]

For now, if you MUST use auto mode, ask the artist.

Or, better yet, only tune notes that sound sharp or flat to you. If it doesn't sound off, don't touch it!

For the future, learn some more theory.

I SOMETIMES like to use auto mode on doubled and tripled vocal takes when I'm going for a really big, modern, Pop vocal sound, leaving the loudest, original take alone.

You can here that kind of sound on Shania Twain and Sheryl Crow records... At least that's what it sounds like they're doing to me. Anyway, it's not a sound that I go for very often.

[ludwigvanlee]

and don't forget accidentals that aren't even in the key.... that's if anyone still uses them anymore in modern music...

[slaves666]

probably the easiest way for you to get going is.....

1. Get a chart with all the scales and Keys on it.

2. Ask the bands guitarist to show you the song on guitar.

3. Write down all the notes he uses, assuming its not chromatic death metal riffs.

4. Compare song to chart determining key.

5. Use auto-tune in manual mode keeping in mind notes guitarist plays.

Thats pretty fool proof for someone that isn't able to figure it out by ear or by playing and singing himself.

[woomanmoomin]

Or you could just work with people who can actually sing.

dfegad the robots

[passman]

try out multi patinum vocal editind dvd its 29.95 download .its helped me a lot i still dont see how you can just see the keys flat and sharp so easy . but i gues you get better with time ... i know that for instance when you see d on the auto tune you will see a line d__________________ the line is your zero point moving up will go sharp and moving down will go flat hope this helps .. peace out