What's the catch with Reaper?

[tvck]

Originally Posted by theblue1

no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to spend five hundred bucks on this DAW or a thousand on that one.

If you don't want to be "ripped off" -- just don't buy it. That's easy, innit?

That's pretty naive, I'd say.
Let's say I trust a company to deliver what they promise, so I pay $1000 for their s/ware. But then, I find that their app. has some stuff that doesn't do what it's supposed to do... Then they fix things but very slowly, and some things only get fixed in the next upgrade, for which they charge $250.
That's a ripoff in my view, but it's software -- different rules-- (can't get yer money back).
So, nobody held a gun to my head, I wasn't forced to buy, but I got ripped off.

Obviously, software is by no means the only business where people get ripped off. It's a question of priorities. Generally, companies see profit as their number one priority, so they try to spend a minimum and charge a maximum.
In those s/ware companies, the employees are all on a salary, they get paid holidays, weekends off, they have company share options, paid sick leave, bla bla bla... inefficient, bloated and probably overpaid.
These companies will not be able to continue to compete with the likes of Justin Frankel, the creator of REAPER, and all the other cheap/free VST, open-source stuff etc. where profit is not the main priority.

Although I think it's true that pros don't care that much if an application costs $1000 or $100, they need to have reliable s/ware with the necessary features, and effective support.
So I think some guys are going to be asking a few questions when they see REAPER fixing bugs in hours, not months, and adding new features every couple of days, not every six months...

[manning1]

tvck....
i see what your saying. and for me personally due to the fast pace of tech change i would be leery paying 1k for a piece of software.
but let me balance a tad some of your comments haveing worked in hi tech.
(not for music software companies tho'...)
yes tekkies DO make good salaries etc.
but believe me its often no rose garden .
i speak from experience.
long hours away from families n loved ones. deadline preassures and often lots of stress due to the competitive market.
ive lost count over the decades i was asked to deliver gold plated technical solutions on peanut budgets also. i'm glad i'm retired frankly.

if anything one of the problems is accountants.
in many organisations the techs like myself KNOW what they would LIKE to deliver to end users in terms of products/features..., but are sometimes overruled by the accounting side of the equation and the bottom line.
all i'm trying to say is dont necessarily blame the tekkies.
reaper is a gem of a product. and not impacted by many of the foregoing aspects.
whereas lots of orgs have lots of expenses like office space/employee benefits and a myriad of things to deal with.

[MT Groove]

manning1 thanks for the tips, I will check it out some more and read the manual. This could be interesting.

[Ruphus]

You are right, guys.
We live in a system of ripping. Except of a very few goods there is ripping going on all the time.
The producing part of the system is shrinking from day to day while the economical hydrocephalus of trading and office is growing correspondingly.
The sport is wedging in between trade chains and screw up margins, fees and manager salaries to infamy and disrespect against the people.

Capitalism is an economical pseudo cycle that spares reason and ethics and thus cannot work. Which is why almost everything is totally overpriced and reason for perverse social and ecological discrepancy.

And examples like Reaper only indicate the common ripping proportions.

Sequencers for over 500 bucks are a bad joke and yearly squeezing of 250 bucks for updates just topping it.

Not to mention cases like of Steinberg who used to sell a completely dysfunctional software named Cubase. Their customers had to bleed for years until that host started halfways doing what it was supposed to do without crashing computers and wiping peoples´ work from the storage.

Meanwhile they offer operational hosts, but their financial fundament was build up by selling crap to enthusiasts for long years. And the guy who brought all that mess over his customers got 50 millions for the crap imperium as his final pocket money.

They didn´t need guns for doing so. Guns are not used when people get officially ripped off under capitalism. Squeezing is the tool.
It´s been made sure that people want something badly enough in order to squeeze totally irrational amounts out of their rears.

Like how about medicine? You don´t want to end up crippled or dead? You really want your health badly enough? Fine, pay up to a couple hundred times of what the pills had actually cost to be produced, otherwise just go perish.

Capitalism is reckless and primitiv, an entirely inhuman method that produces masses of bend over people for a minority to be overly privileged.
It doesn´t think twice to steal people´s income and lifetime, instead rewards the individuals who do it the most.

There are some examples coming up to demonstrate actual ratio with production and goods to the world; I hope products like Reaper could be such for the future.

Don´t let profiteurs and uneducated peeps spread thoughtless mantras like "it costs what it costs", "you get what you pay for" or "noone get´s rich" before all that accumulation and hardship that they stand for.

Let reason be used and getting rid of destructive brainwash.

Ruphus

[retractablezing]

Originally Posted by Phil Aiken

Interesting you should say that.
As I migrate away from PARIS I am on the fence between Samplitude and Reaper as my main DAW. I already have Samp LE on my system and am planning on doing some shootouts.

well..price wise

if it's no obstacle, get both if one gets samp, it's silly not to pay 40 bucks for reaper, if not for just some peace of mind within the "still able to return samp" time frame...

to me it sounds better...but in terms of work flow, etc, people might prefer samp, i dunno. reaper is almost too simple. in all honesty, i got samp cause of the analog suite thing, that blew me away when i first heard it...nowadays, i only mixdown to the puter, and have better outboard i suppose. so the analog suite thing, as good/better as it is sounding now, it's just not enough for me to justify the price.

you should really hear both though, before making the call.

at 40 bucks, reaper is a no brainer though!

[thenoodle]

I like the little vso function in Reaper. It's sorta cool. But one of the gripes I mentioned elsewhere is that Reaper doesn't interface very well in a multiple daw situation. Which won't matter at all for some folks. But if you're doing commercial audio/video on multiple pcs all synchronized together and are thinking of plugging Reaper into the chain to see how it does in tandem with your other stuff...forget it. As a $40 app, it's cool. But since this $40 app is now being promoted by some folks as a replacement for $2000+ apps, it's important to keep a few things in perspective as to what Reaper can and can not do. Transport sync is one thing Reaper can't do. I don't think the issue is a biggie over there. The requests for sync capability go back a few months on several Reaper threads...

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6349
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4199

Is this a "catch" with Reaper? Not for some, but definitely yes for others.

Possibly another issue I read about over at Reaper (and I might be wrong) is that ssl plugs are only working in their stereo versions. Mono ssl stuff doesn't come up. I might have that info wrong so maybe someone can clarify.

[tamasdragon]

Originally Posted by Ruphus

You are right, guys.
Not to mention cases like of Steinberg who used to sell a completely dysfunctional software named Cubase. Their customers had to bleed for years until that host started halfways doing what it was supposed to do without crashing computers and wiping peoples´ work from the storage.

Ruphus

That's just simply not true. I won't say that they didn't screw up things, but the software is very good. The first release had more bugs than we've waited, but it's a very bad trend to bash steinberg. Bashers often forgot to mention that other softs has many bugs, first releases are even worse.
Reaper looks interesting, but there's room for improvement.
Tamas Dragon

[Mike Derrick]

Anyone know, how good is the sound quality of Reaper's sample rate conversion? Dither?

Are we talking, Reaper has same kinds of features (editing etc) as ProT and Nuendo etc?

I'll go check it out and see for myself, but thought I'd like to hear some testimonies from current users. thanks.

[Ruphus]

Hi Tamas,

according to Germany´s biggest music store at that time I was the first person who made Steinberg take that software back. They also confirmed to me that it had never worked reliably to that day.

Samplitude however, as well as Cakewalk used to work stable already in the same time. And Digi with its own hardware / SW combo anyway.

No to say that they had no bugs ( let alone the bugs of Win95 adding to it ), but they were workable while Cubase was completely unreliable and practically useless.

The lack of practicability of that software was also apparent in the corresponding forums, but Steinberg never admitted it anyway. Absolutely bold policy of selling fundamentally unusable goods without clients having an opportunity to get a hold of that company for selling something that just wasn´t there.


Ruphus

[tamasdragon]

Ok, fair enough. It's my fault as i didn't use the very first version, so you could be right in that. But from the first update, it's becoming better, at least for us here.
Tamas Dragon

[treymonfauntre]

the day manning1 stops namedropping reaper in every single one of his posts will be the day i give it a try

[statikcat]

Lol.

[manning1]

trey...
this is a reaper thread.
have fun.

[GregP]

Tracktion's never been $300. T2 in a box was $150, the forthcoming Project Pack version is $129, with the "Ultimate Bundle" (including full or near-full versions of some pretty nice plug-ins) coming in at $249 MSRP. Street prices have been less, with T2 selling typically for $99. That's not much more than Tracktion 1, which I also bought when it was $80.

I don't think there's much of a catch for Reaper. A guy who doesn't "need" the money, but who likes money and "business reality" enough to actually charge for it.

I DO think he should hire a proper graphics artist for a default appearance though. Preferably someone specialized in actual GUI design, not just re-skinning buttons and knobs, but finding better places to put them and streamlining their sizes, etc.

Greg

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by GregP

I DO think he should hire a proper graphics artist for a default appearance though. Preferably someone specialized in actual GUI design, not just re-skinning buttons and knobs, but finding better places to put them and streamlining their sizes, etc.

Greg

While I am liking this program more and more, I just don't get why some of you are so down on the GUI. Who gives a shit?! Reaper does what its supposed to. Thats all I need. Besides, its not ugly at all. Who really needs unneccesary graphics to interfere with processor power? Not me.

[JeffSanders]

Exactly. Try any of the "Akoustic" color schemes if you're not into the GUI.

[manning1]

theres an old saying in software engineering circles.....
viz.....mutton done up like lamb.
thus i'm always suspicious when i see oodles of graphics...
cos it makes me wonder where the priorities were made.
graphics ...or features i need.
some software uses fancy graphics as a marketing tool.
to lure in kids brought up with games.
i'm into reapers deep features , rather than makeing it look like
a game. for example people should really delve into the various compressor and eq features in reaper and the other plug ins.
then they would realise....reaper in fact saves them money buying expensive plug ins. Reaeq and features like majortom n many others are pretty amazeing in this product imho.

anyway..just one example...i customised the metering in the mixer.
meters now look lovely. theres all sorts of things one can do in preferences.
i'm rather partial to some of the akoustic themes as well as the adrian burger theme.

poorglory.....i agree 100 per cent with you.

[Zarathustra]

Come on baby... Don't fear the Reaper
Baby take my hand... Don't fear the Reaper
We'll be able to fly... Don't fear the Reaper
Baby I'm your man...

Z

[Empty Planet]

I'll repost from another thread the features I particularly enjoy about Reaper. Many apps have a few of these features, but I don't believe any of them have the routing capabilities, which is the huge sell for me. If I'm wrong about that, please let me know.

By the way, those of you referring to it as a $40 app are a bit off, if you use it in a professional context. It's $200 for a professional license. Still a steal, of course.


1. Routing. Route any channel to ANY other channel, to as few or as many as you like.

2. The Routing Matrix. A graphical interface that enables you to perform complex routing functions from a single screen.

3. True sidechaining.

4. Extremely frequent updates. As in "a few each week."

5. Change order of tracks by clicking and dragging, change order of inserts within the track, also by clicking and dragging. Changes are instantly reflected in the mixer.

6. A 64-bit depth path for the audio throughout.

7. A performance meter that tracks the CPU eaten up by each individual channel, as well as how much RAM is being eaten.

8. FX Disable that actually turns off the effect, so that the CPU hit from that channel is removed.

9. Intelligent automation design, and multiple modes from which to select.

10. Elegant design, free of the "bloat" caused by a gigantic feature set of items I personally never use.

11. Varispeed. Slow down the entire production -- MIDI and audio -- with a simple slider. Record your track at whatever speed you like, bring the track back to your target BPM. Enjoy the freakiness. Couldn't be easier.

12. The ability to suggest ideas that will actually be taken into consideration by the actual developer -- and a support community of users that has (at least at present) an astonishingly tiny percentage of ******s.

13. Renaming of inputs and outputs to reflect your actual gear. For instance, my inputs say things like "TAB-Funkenwerk V78m" and "Chandler Germanium," and my outs list things like "Mains," "NS10s," etc.

14. No dongle. Nor the extra code and, particularly, the extra CPU cycles required to maintain that protection scheme.

15. Customizable channel fx-chain presets, customizable hotkeys, customizable interface colors and shading.

16. Incredibly inexpensive.


That said, this is not a "dream app." There are several areas in which it needs a lot of work -- for instance, the GUI, certain aspects of the MIDI, certain aspects of the automation, or the setting up of multiple outs for VSTi like Addictive Drums (which can be done, but it's more a roll-up-your-sleeves affair and should be automatic).

Still a fantastic app. I haven't booted up my Cubase SX in a month now -- and I haven't missed it.


Cheers all.

[GregP]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

While I am liking this program more and more, I just don't get why some of you are so down on the GUI. Who gives a shit?! Reaper does what its supposed to. Thats all I need. Besides, its not ugly at all. Who really needs unneccesary graphics to interfere with processor power? Not me.

I agree that it shouldn't look all shiny and hardware-like. I'm a Tracktion user for Pete's sake. :D But that doesn't preclude intelligent design. There's nothing "wrong" with the GUI, but it could certainly use some tweaking.

I know where you're coming from, though. You can only imagine the number of times I've rebutted criticism of Tracktion's flat 2-D vector-based approach.

FWIW, if Justin really wants to be on the edge, I think he should be using vector, too. Infinitely scalable to whatever resolution you're working at. That's the way forward.

I really really DO support Reaper, so it's a risk for me talking about Tracktion... the usual accusations of "fanboy" lurk around the corner. But each of the points listed above have applied to Tracktion for a long time, with only a few missing (no weekly updates, but this is a debatable benefit and value) and many different ones to add. I don't mention it to say "Tracktion is better," but just as a bit of a smile because the things that Reaper supporters are so pleased with (and rightfully so!) are things that Tracktion users have been enjoying for years now. With Reaper's development pace and Justin's mad skills, it won't be TOO long before he finally adds innovation to the mix, but so far I see nothing that grabs my interest.

[PhonoquO]

Justin's got no reason whatsover to sell out. He has more money than he knows what to do with and he's on a mission to expose the many flaws of the popular, bloated, overpriced and poorly coded DAWS. This is the next big thing people. Embrace it or be left behind. First a mac port-over then, watch patiently as the software permiates all os platforms from xbox, playstation to cell phones and pda's. Dangerous

[clonewar]

Originally Posted by Ruphus

You are right, guys.
We live in a system of ripping. Except of a very few goods there is ripping going on all the time.
The producing part of the system is shrinking from day to day while the economical hydrocephalus of trading and office is growing correspondingly.
The sport is wedging in between trade chains and screw up margins, fees and manager salaries to infamy and disrespect against the people.

Capitalism is an economical pseudo cycle that spares reason and ethics and thus cannot work. Which is why almost everything is totally overpriced and reason for perverse social and ecological discrepancy.

And examples like Reaper only indicate the common ripping proportions.

Sequencers for over 500 bucks are a bad joke and yearly squeezing of 250 bucks for updates just topping it.

Not to mention cases like of Steinberg who used to sell a completely dysfunctional software named Cubase. Their customers had to bleed for years until that host started halfways doing what it was supposed to do without crashing computers and wiping peoples´ work from the storage.

Meanwhile they offer operational hosts, but their financial fundament was build up by selling crap to enthusiasts for long years. And the guy who brought all that mess over his customers got 50 millions for the crap imperium as his final pocket money.

They didn´t need guns for doing so. Guns are not used when people get officially ripped off under capitalism. Squeezing is the tool.
It´s been made sure that people want something badly enough in order to squeeze totally irrational amounts out of their rears.

Like how about medicine? You don´t want to end up crippled or dead? You really want your health badly enough? Fine, pay up to a couple hundred times of what the pills had actually cost to be produced, otherwise just go perish.

Capitalism is reckless and primitiv, an entirely inhuman method that produces masses of bend over people for a minority to be overly privileged.
It doesn´t think twice to steal people´s income and lifetime, instead rewards the individuals who do it the most.

There are some examples coming up to demonstrate actual ratio with production and goods to the world; I hope products like Reaper could be such for the future.

Don´t let profiteurs and uneducated peeps spread thoughtless mantras like "it costs what it costs", "you get what you pay for" or "noone get´s rich" before all that accumulation and hardship that they stand for.

Let reason be used and getting rid of destructive brainwash.

Ruphus

Justin sold Winamp for what, $100,000,000, and that's who you're using as the poster boy for your anti-capatalism propaganda??

LOL!!

[clonewar]

Originally Posted by treymonfauntre

the day manning1 stops namedropping reaper in every single one of his posts will be the day i give it a try

You love powertracks pro though right?

[living sounds]

I'm still thinking about switching to a Mac because I can't really work with Midi in any other system than Logic.

I think I tried Reaper a year ago or so and didn't like it that much. However, since there are skins and updates etc., can someone tell me if the following things are possible:

I like to have two main windows: One for the arrangement (with nothing else on the screen), one for the mixer. The mixer window must have several plugin slots, ideally plugins can be simply moved from one slot to another and even another channel. The mixer should cover the whole screen, I don't want anything else there, no window upon window stuff.

Is it possible to configure it like this? Two no-nonsense-screens with the essential things? I don't want to change volume, pan, etc. on the arrangement screen. No meter there either. Only mute and solo, as mixing takes place on the other screen. BTW, that's what I really hate about Cubase, all this stuff you cannot get rid of.

If Reaper can do all this and have easy-editing I'd give it another try.

[manning1]

clonewar...
for your info...lol....
my two main pieces of daw software are reaper and powertracks.
with these two there is nothing i cant do. recording wise.
(show me a better combo for 100 buks....
there isnt one....lol.)
and..yes..i'm very happy with both.
reapers great strength is the audio side and midi is coming along.
while powertracks great strength is midi....and the audio side is no slouch.
(but not some of the features that rpr has.).
one technical benefit of this approach is powertracks has some nice real time audio plug ins i like that also work flawlessly in reaper (eg the echo/chorus on vocs and the 10 band real time eq..)....and which are not cpu hogs.
which is why i dont need as powerfull a pc as some folks need to do a song....lol.
let me add ive never seen some of powertracks midi features in another daw software. things like cleaning up midi guitar traks and midi guitar and bass displays as well as intelligent features like importing a midi song n it telling me
the chords in a song. just a few examples.
reaper on the other hand has an amazeing set of plugins included also.
in conclusion i'm a happy camper on my new dual amd system....lol.
and i'm happy to say both run without one hiccup. flawlessly.

[sam c]

Originally Posted by treymonfauntre

the day manning1 stops namedropping reaper in every single one of his posts will be the day i give it a try

sometimes the enthusiasts really can drive you away (nothen personal manning!) there was a guy on my last forum that used every single thread as an excuse to go on and on and on about the software we all owned. shit, we already owned it, we did not need the constant reminder about how great it is. but......he could not wrench his nose out of the developers ass!!!

it reminds me of groupies.........cute for a minute but.........

[manning1]

sam....
with respect (i say this a tad annoyed).....
i havent got my nose up anyones A**. !!!!!
there have been several threads recently where people have talked about products that occupy the same market space as reaper , and i havent contributed to the thread. thus i think its a tad unfair to paint me with that brush !!

ive contributed to this current thread cos its about reaper.
no other.
in addition let me say i'm not on every dam recording forum.
just this one at slutz and of course the reaper user one.
frankly i dont have the time as i'm doing a year long album of songs with another songwriter.
let me also dam well say...a couple of months back i think it was....
someone asked about daw software on slutz here.
i suggested he look at reaper. subsequently he thanked me.
if i hadnt mentioned it ...he would not have known about it.
let me also dam well add....in the past few months ive seen several posts on slutz
where someone had a lack of a certain feature in their daw software they were useing....which reaper could have done easily or the other daw software i use.
but i refrained from posting....knowing someone would get their knickers in a twist useing a competing product.
frankly i dont give a dam if trey tries reaper or not. its his loss imho.
jeesh....

[sam c]

Originally Posted by manning1

sam....
with respect (i say this a tad annoyed).....
i havent got my nose up anyones A**. !!!!!
....

manning, you should not be annoyed. if you re-read my post when i say another forum, i do not refer to you! "there was a guy".......i am surprised you feel that is you.

i think you jumped the gun

[bit mangler]

Originally Posted by clonewar

Justin sold Winamp for what, $100,000,000, and that's who you're using as the poster boy for your anti-capatalism propaganda??

LOL!!

exactly!!!!

clearly the dude hasn't done the homework for his propaganda.He doesnt seem to be know who Justin is

[dobz]

Originally Posted by living sounds

I like to have two main windows: One for the arrangement (with nothing else on the screen), one for the mixer. The mixer window must have several plugin slots, ideally plugins can be simply moved from one slot to another and even another channel. The mixer should cover the whole screen, I don't want anything else there, no window upon window stuff.

Is it possible to configure it like this? Two no-nonsense-screens with the essential things? I don't want to change volume, pan, etc. on the arrangement screen. No meter there either. Only mute and solo, as mixing takes place on the other screen. BTW, that's what I really hate about Cubase, all this stuff you cannot get rid of.

If Reaper can do all this and have easy-editing I'd give it another try.

Could someone please answer this i would like to know as well.
Cheers