Logic 8 ? *merged*

[bof]

Originally Posted by piccazzo

Exaxly my point on not jumping on every update ASAP.
Althhough they might fix some problems they also most certanly will bring some new ones.
Thats why im still on a G4...

Of course, you're right about rushing in, but we had no choice but to move to Intel Macs as we need them for other stuff.

I kept my G5 so I can still use Logic 7.2, but I now have 3 computers in my studio that just run 'the last stable version of xxx' It's getting crowded and noisy in here.

[rashadrm@hotmai]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

As I'm sure everyone feels:

I hate Logic's audio, but I LOVE it's midi.

I love protool's audio, but it's midi is a joke!

Sysex faders anyone?

Exactly, you would think that apple will look at whats good about protools audio and fix the audio end of logic and that will put logic back on top. But right now my money is on the HD protools, plenty of updates and it wont be long for the midi to catch up.
Apple sells i-pods. Logic is Apples neglected stepchildtutt

[bof]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Sysex faders anyone?

Oh yes. Something else that broke years ago and hasn't been fixed. You used to be able to record the output of a SysEx fader to a track when you use 'Send Selected Fader Values', perfect for making snapshots of hardware setups. And they still forget which is the data message in multi-message strings.

Of course, none of that matters because nobody uses MIDI any more...

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by rashadrm@hotmai

Exactly, you would think that apple will look at whats good about protools audio and fix the audio end of logic and that will put logic back on top. But right now my money is on the HD protools, plenty of updates and it wont be long for the midi to catch up.
Apple sells i-pods. Logic is Apples neglected stepchildtutt

Best bet seems to be running Logic on one system for MIDI, slaved to a Protools system that runs the audio. Best of both worlds. Only downside is that there's more to go wrong, a higher cost, and having to switch between keyboards and mice.

Although, I do have a program called Teleport (or something like that) for OS X, that allows you to use one mouse on two computers. You just treat the whole system like it's a multi-monitor setup. Very smooth, and VERY useful for something like this.

[blue]

One year ago at the Musikmesse I was able to talk to one of the programmers of Logic. I told him that I feel unhappy because I am not able to integrate my analog outboard gear in a professional way. I asked for a automatic delay mesaurement/compensation for the I/O stage. The guy said "its on our list" but he wouldn't promisse anything. I asked him (one year ago!!) "where is Logic 8". He answered "Why do you want 8? Are you not able to realize all your ideas with 7??" I asked him "Why don't you bring a PT Killer?" He:" That's not our intention!! PT is in another range. "
I'm still not sure what to think about his words. Are they really more interrested in comsumer-GarageBand toys?? I think (and hope) this guy just didn't want to tell me about their big plans with 8. In the past one of the biggest excellences of mastermind Lengeling was to realize when the time is right for a redesign - and he did it properly. I think the 5,6,7 has been fantastic.
Since the Apple takeover no big release came for Logic. Only with the next big release we know wheter the takeover was good or bad for us.
Let's give'em the time to do it right!!

Reto

[rashadrm@hotmai]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

Best bet seems to be running Logic on one system for MIDI, slaved to a Protools system that runs the audio. Best of both worlds. Only downside is that there's more to go wrong, a higher cost, and having to switch between keyboards and mice.

Although, I do have a program called Teleport (or something like that) for OS X, that allows you to use one mouse on two computers. You just treat the whole system like it's a multi-monitor setup. Very smooth, and VERY useful for something like this.

I have logic and protools running on the same machine using the IAC bus. logic is slaved to protools . I use the HD hardware for PT and the Rosetta 800 for Logic. I dont think I will work this way much though, since its a pain if you have to do any arranging. I have always used logic with HD TDM as the hardware but with the incompatibilitys lately its getting more and more unstable. I'll likely keep working in Logic and I prefer to mix in PT.

[Animus]

Yup, I am glad I made the switch to Windows for musicmaking about 4 years ago now. I didn't use Logic however, but Cubase (Nuendo now). I saw the writing on the wall then and didn't want to drink the Steve Jobs koolaide anymore. OS X is a moving target and don't see how anyone can develop for it consistently. First the migration to OS X, then recently to x86 architecture, etc. I did more waiting for stuff to become compatible or actually to even "work". In fact, I still think you can't use Direct Monitoring off your audio cards in OS X yet? I don't even keep up anymore. PLus I can build the machine I want, half the cost, and if somehting breaks I can just go down the street to get a part and repair it myself and not have to deal with the "Apple Genius's" and have my machine out of commision for weeks (speak from personal experience).

[arimaka]

Originally Posted by Animus

Yup, I am glad I made the switch to Windows for musicmaking about 4 years ago now. I didn't use Logic however, but Cubase (Nuendo now). I saw the writing on the wall then and didn't want to drink the Steve Jobs koolaide anymore. OS X is a moving target and don't see how anyone can develop for it consistently. First the migration to OS X, then recently to x86 architecture, etc. I did more waiting for stuff to become compatible or actually to even "work". In fact, I still think you can't use Direct Monitoring off your audio cards in OS X yet? I don't even keep up anymore. PLus I can build the machine I want, half the cost, and if somehting breaks I can just go down the street to get a part and repair it myself and not have to deal with the "Apple Genius's" and have my machine out of commision for weeks (speak from personal experience).

All that your saying is bogus... of course you can use direct monitoring, there are great apps with soundcards like motu, apogee.... lots of professionals use OS X and it just ROCKS....

[barryjohns]

Originally Posted by arimaka

All that your saying is bogus... of course you can use direct monitoring, there are great apps with soundcards like motu, apogee.... lots of professionals use OS X and it just ROCKS....

Friend, don't let him bring you down to his level. We all know that Mac's rock, we don't need to debate that, it's futile.

[Rufuss Sewell]

Wacintosh's suck, we all know Minnows is the best!

[Animus]

Originally Posted by barryjohns

Friend, don't let him bring you down to his level. We all know that Mac's rock, we don't need to debate that, it's futile.

*sigh* I am not saying macs suck dudes. I am typing this on a mac! I just don't use macs for audio anymore (only graphics). And everything I was saying is not bogus as this was my real world experience 3 to 4 years ago, it's my "opinion" even though it might not be true for you. I hope your mac never breaks down because if it does you are probably not going to see it for a few weeks as Apple Support fixes it (my G4 was gone for a month while I twiddled my fingers). Now its just a matter of going down the street getting a motherboard/cpu etc and fixing it myself sameday. I am glad your experiences have been good or have a willingness/patience to tolerate things, but I don't. THe transition to OS X from OS 9 sucked period, just as the transition to x86 has as well. OS X has been a "work in progress" and I needed the stability and assurance of Windows. I prefer OS X actually, there's just more options and development on Windows and I have more control. Windows does suck in a lot of ways (GUI etc) but at least it has been established for 6 years and doesn't change every 2 months like OS X.

IMO Apple was the worse thing to happen to Emagic. IF Emagic had stayed independent I bet Logic would probably be at version 9 by now and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Apple is more interested in selling ipods and other ilife crap to the mass consumer nowadays.

As far as Direct Monitoring goes....I am glad all the developers finally got around in implementing this. I know for awhile there was no such thing as Direct Monitoring in most OS X applications (maybe Logic had it?) Just do a Google search...

There was a lot of whining in this thread already about Apple so it stirred up some repressed memories for me as well.....sorry, carry on ;-)

[Ashermusic]

I was at NAMM yesterday at the Apple booth and while I do not want to name drop or self-aggrandize I can confidently say the following:

The Logic audio engine was completetly re-written to allow future development on the MacIntel and it was a BIG job. Logic 8 is almost a new app and it just isn't done yet. I think they are wise to wait until it is REALLY done. We all remember what happened with Logic Pro 7.0. don't we?

Everybody has a right to want what they want in a DAW and like all products the developers will pick and choose their priorities and the marketplace will decide if they have chosen wisely.

[Schmacko]

Originally Posted by Ashermusic

I was at NAMM yesterday at the Apple booth and while I do not want to name drop or self-aggrandize I can confidently say the following:

The Logic audio engine was completetly re-written to allow future development on the MacIntel and it was a BIG job. Logic 8 is almost a new app and it just isn't done yet. I think they are wise to wait until it is REALLY done. We all remember what happened with Logic Pro 7.0. don't we?

Everybody has a right to want what they want in a DAW and like all products the developers will pick and choose their priorities and the marketplace will decide if they have chosen wisely.

That's good to know, Jay. Were you able to get a sense of where development on Logic 8 is at? For instance, is it so close to completion that we could see it's introduction at Frankfurt or NAB this spring? Also, at this point, can we expect Logic's next update to be a v8.0 rather than a v7.3, 7.2.4, etc...?

[Ashermusic]

Originally Posted by Schmacko

That's good to know, Jay. Were you able to get a sense of where development on Logic 8 is at? For instance, is it so close to completion that we could see it's introduction at Frankfurt or NAB this spring? Also, at this point, can we expect Logic's next update to be a v8.0 rather than a v7.3, 7.2.4, etc...?

No, these guys simply will not tell you that.

[Bump Music]

Originally Posted by Ashermusic

I was at NAMM yesterday at the Apple booth and while I do not want to name drop or self-aggrandize I can confidently say the following:

The Logic audio engine was completetly re-written to allow future development on the MacIntel and it was a BIG job. Logic 8 is almost a new app and it just isn't done yet. I think they are wise to wait until it is REALLY done. We all remember what happened with Logic Pro 7.0. don't we?

Everybody has a right to want what they want in a DAW and like all products the developers will pick and choose their priorities and the marketplace will decide if they have chosen wisely.

Logic 8 SHOULD be an entirely new app with a completely re written code. It's outdated. Period. So the excuse of "It's a whole new app and that's why it's taking so long" is complete bogus. (Not that you were making excuses for Apple)

[vixapphire]

so, does what Asher was told mean that one won't be able to run Logic 8 unless one has an Intel Mac?

Personally, the asscheek my wallet usually sits against is still sore from upgrading thru os9, osx, G3/G4/G5, all in the past 3-4 years. These ain't cheap computers, and it's more than a little frustrating to have to spend thousands in hardware for the pleasure of having the same functionality with more bugs than on older systems.

I'd kind of like to keep the G5 awhile; it's got all my cards in it, and I'd like to amortize it over a few more years of reliable use. There's things I'd like to see improved/fixed in Logic's next iteration, but if they're talking about a full rewrite I'm loath to jump on the bleeding edge of what past experience has shown is as much a knife in the heart as a boon to productivity. But 8.2? Count me in!

v

[Surreal]

i am Pretty sure that at LEAST 8.x will be universal binary.

Leopard will be, so i don't see a reason against Logic 8 being UB.

[MattiMattMatt]

kind of funny that Logic 8 is the most talked about product from NAMM '07.

And it like doesn't exist.

[Jazzpunk]

I'm still hoping Apple will deliver on Logic but what is painfully obvious is that they do not understand how to cater to a pro audio base. They are completely out of touch with what pro audio consumers have grown to expect from companies that promise high end recording gear.

Apple's tight lipped policies and lack of communication may be thought of as 'cool' among coding nerds but that shit just doesn't foster confidence in the audio community. There are too many other companies vying for our business.

As painfully stubborn as Digi can be, I think their recent updates and new plugs show that they are not only listening but responding as well. Apple would do well to take note.

[Ashermusic]

Originally Posted by Bump Music

Logic 8 SHOULD be an entirely new app with a completely re written code. It's outdated. Period. So the excuse of "It's a whole new app and that's why it's taking so long" is complete bogus. (Not that you were making excuses for Apple)

Well since you said "period" that I guess that means it is empirically true and ends the discussion

[Ashermusic]

Originally Posted by vixapphire

so, does what Asher was told mean that one won't be able to run Logic 8 unless one has an Intel Mac?

Personally, the asscheek my wallet usually sits against is still sore from upgrading thru os9, osx, G3/G4/G5, all in the past 3-4 years. These ain't cheap computers, and it's more than a little frustrating to have to spend thousands in hardware for the pleasure of having the same functionality with more bugs than on older systems.

I'd kind of like to keep the G5 awhile; it's got all my cards in it, and I'd like to amortize it over a few more years of reliable use. There's things I'd like to see improved/fixed in Logic's next iteration, but if they're talking about a full rewrite I'm loath to jump on the bleeding edge of what past experience has shown is as much a knife in the heart as a boon to productivity. But 8.2? Count me in!

v

It means no such thing. I think you can reasonably expect that it will support PPC for a couple of years and then not.

[composer]

Originally Posted by Ashermusic

I was at NAMM yesterday at the Apple booth and while I do not want to name drop or self-aggrandize I can confidently say the following:

The Logic audio engine was completetly re-written to allow future development on the MacIntel and it was a BIG job. Logic 8 is almost a new app and it just isn't done yet. I think they are wise to wait until it is REALLY done. We all remember what happened with Logic Pro 7.0. don't we?

Everybody has a right to want what they want in a DAW and like all products the developers will pick and choose their priorities and the marketplace will decide if they have chosen wisely.

In addition (and yes, I will bring up Pro Tools and LE again) , Apple prices are now in line with Windows machines, at least the high end, not the Celeron models.

Further, a few things I think will happen in the next few months...

For Apple to say, we can run windows, and to garner one of the largest user bases, the iPod generartion as well as gamers, they will have to suck it up and add a dedicated GPU to the MACBOOK and iMAC (low end models), which should be easy to do due to 1) Apple being part of the hypertransport consortium (AMD), 2)AMD supposed to have a duo core 2 killer (KL9) and 3)both AMD and Intel have 4/8 cores in the works so that should differnciate the HIGH END from low end.

Add in the Vista is DRM h ell, and that its a memory hog, I think Apples share (market share will double again), (already doubled from 3% to 6%).

With regard to Pro Tools vs LE, I think Digi is waiting to see what Apple does with Logic 8, as I pointed out once before, would anyone really be surprised, lawsuits or not, if Jobs allowed Pro Tools projects to be opened on Logic 8 in almost a native form emulation? Who knows.

I think Digi can hold on only so long before opening up Mp3, and ADC to LE users, its just a matter of time, computing is too powerful these days, plus, what did they release at NAMM? Nothing, AIR did, but not Digi, they did not release anything from the digidesign group.

The reason Digi still has a strong hold is due to Avid (high end) TDM/HD but once Logic can truly handle Avid projects, this will be the start of a new revolution. Pro Tools studios before the advent of SX, Nuendo, Saw, and computing power under 1GHZ, used to be everywhere, this is no longer the case.

In fact, in Nashville, #1 for songwriters, it is said that Nuendo is the platform of choice and another recent article pointed out that Nuendo is quickly becoming the product of choice for film/television.

The winner? It will be the DAW that can not only open video files but allow for video editing within the program, making cuts, transitions, after effects, working with video as well as flash (for the newer revolution of web and mobile methods of delivery).

We will have to wait and see.

[Steve MacMillan]

In fact, in Nashville, #1 for songwriters, it is said that Nuendo is the platform of choice and another recent article pointed out that Nuendo is quickly becoming the product of choice for film/television.

Says who? That would be news to me. Everybody I know in LA and Nashville uses ProTools, my friends in post are all on ProTools, and the people I know that used to use Nuendo have switched. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions but at least for now, its a Digi world out there.

STeve

[noiseflaw]

What I want to know is this......

If Logic's next release is Logic Pro 8 (almost completely re-written) will it be UB only?

Will it still be coded to run on PPC - if it is not I will be pretty piss*d.

[bleen]

Originally Posted by noiseflaw

What I want to know is this......

If Logic's next release is Logic Pro 8 (almost completely re-written) will it be UB only?

Will it still be coded to run on PPC - if it is not I will be pretty piss*d.

UB means Universal Binary. These apps run on both Intel and PPC Macs natively. So, if Logic 8 is UB only as you asked, it would still run on your PPC Mac.

PPC Macs went away not too long ago, so I really can't imagine them not making it UB because of the sheer number of G4's & G5's (not to mention Powerbooks and iBooks) still out there running Logic just fine right now.

[MWPROJECT]

I bet Apogee ends up buying Logic.

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by MWPROJECT

I bet Apogee ends up buying Logic.

Either that or Apple ends up buying Apogee

[Jazzpunk]

I believe in Santa

[David Robinson]

if eMagic had stayed independant, we'd be paying thru the nose for all the options, as we used to.
in this case apple does it way better.

eMagics hardware conroller sent them broke, as mackie turned around and marketed a universal model of it, and eMagic couldn't touch them legally.

when apple bought out eMagic all the original staff would have had to sign contracts with gag clauses to get the money - that's why nobody on that side will say anything.

eMagic used to do a lot of maintenance updates, yes, but realise that this is a subtle form of advertising in itself. a lot of these u/ds still did not fix long standing bugs that i'm sure eMagic were aware of.

it is rather strange to me, in this hi-tech, hi-speed world of ours that nothing significant about logics future has been leaked!!!!
this again is a very good and subtle form of advertising, cos every forum contains speculation about the next release.

i post a lot on the apple logic forum and am in contact with a number of board members there by email and nobody knows nuthin'!!!

for my own needs, i do not care, as the way i use logic could be done in v5.5.

[OlavB]

Originally Posted by David Robinson

for my own needs, i do not care, as the way i use logic could be done in v5.5.

...finally some sense in this whole hype...