Upgrading studio from PC based SONAR to MAC based Pro tools or similar (best fit)

[pschmailinglist]

Hi, I have a MOTU 2408 MKII and MIDI Express XT. For years I have used PC
Windows based system, but now I want to change to Macintosh. MOTU's tech
support told me to buy a PCI-424e card, but I also want to know which
software will fit best with the new MAC models. MAC technicians have
referred to me the new MAC PRO G5 system. Which software fit best? with the
MOTU? Can I use the latest Protools 7.3 on it? (I want to avoid any compatibility trouble here)

thank you

[taturana]

IMHO changing plataforms isn't really upgrading... unless you are moving to a faster computer (or lots of dsp bays) as a matter of fact, if you are moving to PTle you might just as well call it downgrading...

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by pschmailinglist

MAC technicians have
referred to me the new MAC PRO G5 system. Which software fit best? with the
MOTU? Can I use the latest Protools 7.3 on it? (I want to avoid any compatibility trouble here)

I think you confuse 2 types of Mac's.
There are the G4 and G5's, which fall under the category Power PC...

And there's the newest and latest type of Mac, the Mac Pro which has an Intel Processor and is thereby sometimes refered to as MacIntel.

PowerPc's cannot run software coded for Intel chips, but the Intel's can run some PowerPC software because of translator software that Apple coded called Rosetta, but usually they won't run the more advanced video and audio editting software or run with heavily reduced performance. However there are also apps coded as Universal Binary, which means it will run on both platforms.

For the PowerPC there's a lot of software available because the platform has existed much longer, however the Intel are the latest development and the future and the PowerPC platform won't be more developed from here.

Offcourse this won't make G5's redundant, and perfectly capable for a studio computer but... well you got the point.

Since half a year most of the software is available as Universal Binary and since a couple of months it also has become a reliable platform... as bugs are getting ironed out.

Another advantage is that the newer machines can also run Windows.

If you buy a new machine everything you already have will be compatible, the older legacy Motu interfaces, are compatible with the newer PCIe cards. (if you buy a 424 card, make sure it is the PCIe version and not a regular PCIx version).

BUT PRO TOOLS 7.3 IS NOT COMPATIBLE UNLESS YOU BUY SOME DIGIDESIGN HARDWARE, it could be as simple as purchasing an mbox, or m-audio interface, those are the cheapest solutions, will allow you to run PT LE and PT MP. For PT HD you need HD hardware which will work in a Mac Pro as well.

I would sooner opt for other software than Pro Tools if you are planning to run your DSP fx natively because the LE and MP versions of PT are limited compared to other software offerings, however you do get the ease of PT editting which is IMHO ahead a bit of the competition, but not much...

[Hammer v2]

Dude, If you really wanna upgrade buy a PC based around a core2 duo and get a motherboard that supports your soundcard.

Then upgrade to sonar 6.

That will be one hell of an upgrade...and the best way for you to go. Promise!!!

The only reasons you should be thinking about tools is if you need it for compatability with everyone else, or you are going to spend the 15k on a basic HD rig. Tools LE or M-powered will be a downgrade.

[pschmailinglist]

Ok..., and which software you suggest for me to use with the MOTU's and MAC PRO?

thanks..

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

I think you confuse 2 types of Mac's.
There are the G4 and G5's, which fall under the category Power PC...

And there's the newest and latest type of Mac, the Mac Pro which has an Intel Processor and is thereby sometimes refered to as MacIntel.

PowerPc's cannot run software coded for Intel chips, but the Intel's can run some PowerPC software because of translator software that Apple coded called Rosetta, but usually they won't run the more advanced video and audio editting software or run with heavily reduced performance. However there are also apps coded as Universal Binary, which means it will run on both platforms.

For the PowerPC there's a lot of software available because the platform has existed much longer, however the Intel are the latest development and the future and the PowerPC platform won't be more developed from here.

Offcourse this won't make G5's redundant, and perfectly capable for a studio computer but... well you got the point.

Since half a year most of the software is available as Universal Binary and since a couple of months it also has become a reliable platform... as bugs are getting ironed out.

Another advantage is that the newer machines can also run Windows.

If you buy a new machine everything you already have will be compatible, the older legacy Motu interfaces, are compatible with the newer PCIe cards. (if you buy a 424 card, make sure it is the PCIe version and not a regular PCIx version).

BUT PRO TOOLS 7.3 IS NOT COMPATIBLE UNLESS YOU BUY SOME DIGIDESIGN HARDWARE, it could be as simple as purchasing an mbox, or m-audio interface, those are the cheapest solutions, will allow you to run PT LE and PT MP. For PT HD you need HD hardware which will work in a Mac Pro as well.

I would sooner opt for other software than Pro Tools if you are planning to run your DSP fx natively because the LE and MP versions of PT are limited compared to other software offerings, however you do get the ease of PT editting which is IMHO ahead a bit of the competition, but not much...

[opium89]

Originally Posted by taturana

IMHO changing plataforms isn't really upgrading... unless you are moving to a faster computer (or lots of dsp bays) as a matter of fact, if you are moving to PTle you might just as well call it downgrading...

+1

Like someone else said, upgrade your PC and get Sonar 6 and you'll be a happy camper. Why go through such a huge learning curve with a new Mac and Software platform when you won't gain a thing from it?

[JohnPaulJones]

I just updgraded my pc to dualcore, winxp x64, and sonar 6. I increased the amount of tracks and plugs I can handle 6 times over.

--JohnPaul

[shanabit]

I have and use Cubase4 and Protools. Getting Protools LE is a DOWNGRADE, anyway you look at it. No ADC, Track limits etc. Didnt say I didnt like it , just saying. If your good on Sonar, just up to Sonar 6 and get a new Mother board for your PC. You can then pick up a CHEAP Protools option for $300 if you need it but you wont be crippled by Protools LE. thats my opinion. Wish Id NEVER spent the money on my DIGI 002 Rack. Waste IMO as CUBASE or SONAR has WAY more power

Ive had just as many problems with my Mac as the PC FYI, they both suck but on diff days LOL

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by pschmailinglist

Ok..., and which software you suggest for me to use with the MOTU's and MAC PRO?

thanks..

If I were you I'd look into Digital Performer (Pro Tool-esque), Logic Audio or Cubase. Each has its pro's and cons... But you need to decide for yourself, which fits your working style the best.

One advantage for going with the Mac Pro is that you can run both OS X and Win XP, so if you don't like OS X, you can keep the machine and just go back to Windows.

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by pschmailinglist

Hi, I have a MOTU 2408 MKII and MIDI Express XT. For years I have used PC
Windows based system, but now I want to change to Macintosh. MOTU's tech
support told me to buy a PCI-424e card, but I also want to know which
software will fit best with the new MAC models. MAC technicians have
referred to me the new MAC PRO G5 system. Which software fit best? with the
MOTU? Can I use the latest Protools 7.3 on it? (I want to avoid any compatibility trouble here)

thank you

You are thinking backwards. First choose your DAW application based on features, workflow, integration, customer service, price etc and then, and only then, get the right computer platform to run that DAW on.

There is absolutely NO point in moving to a Mac unless there is a specific application on the Mac that you need to run. Moving to Mac will cost you alot more money and will limit your choices of software and plugins. Not a good idea.

I'm guessing that you are having problems with your MOTU interface and MOTU are advising you to get a Mac, right? If this is the case, the only logical conclusion to this should be to dump MOTU and not the PC! Not least because they are giving you very bad advice.

Alistair

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by UnderTow

I'm guessing that you are having problems with your MOTU interface and MOTU are advising you to get a Mac, right? If this is the case, the only logical conclusion to this should be to dump MOTU and not the PC! Not least because they are giving you very bad advice.

I didn't read that in his post, so why do you imply that they did?

He stated he wanted to change, so why would you advise against that?

IMHO both platforms are equal, if you'd compare the performance, the biggest difference is the OS and user friendliness, he said he wanted to change to a Mac, anything against that? It's a wonderfull computer, costly yes, but a nice machine without a doubt!

[shaddai]

Just another vote for the Core2 Duo w/Sonar 6....

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

I didn't read that in his post, so why do you imply that they did?

As I said, I am guessing. The reason I made that guess is that it makes absolutely no sense to me to want to change all your tools (DAW, plugins etc) just to be able to run on another computer.

Either he is being a fashion victim, someone (MOTU?) advised him to switch or he is letting out part of the story.

He stated he wanted to change, so why would you advise against that?

Because it makes no sense. If someone goes to a doctor and says that he wants to drill holes into his ears, should the doctor advise him on what drill to use or should the doctor try and find out why he wants to drill holes into his ears and try and help the real problem rather than the symptoms? (Maybe the guy has bad tinnitus that is driving him mad ...)

You also conveniently ignored the rest of my post. For instance the bits with the reason why it isn't a good idea to switch to a Mac just for the sake of it.

You also give some pretty good reason why NOT to switch to a Mac in your own post.

IMHO both platforms are equal, if you'd compare the performance, the biggest difference is the OS and user friendliness, he said he wanted to change to a Mac, anything against that? It's a wonderfull computer, costly yes, but a nice machine without a doubt!

Yes and you are obviously biased into advising anyone to make the switch to Apple reguardless of anything else. Your avatar is a bit of a give away.

The most important thing IMO is the software that you run. His post is a bit like saying "I want to use a jackhammer, what kind of house can I build with a jackhammer" rather than "I want to build a house like this. What tools should I use to build it?".

Alistair

[pschmailinglist]

Originally Posted by UnderTow

Maybe the guy has bad tinnitus that is driving him mad ... His post is a bit like saying "I want to use a jackhammer, what kind of house can I build with a jackhammer" rather than "I want to build a house like this. What tools should I use to build it?".

Alistair

Hi,

Ok, over the years I have struggled a lot with Windows based system and my MOTUs. PC got freezed many, many times and some times goes absolutely OFF (although the system requirements were already met). I have had also some latency problems with audio recording, among other things..

Will this upgrade with CORE 2 DUO INTEL motherboard, with SONAR 6, will solve all this problems?

thanks..

[FFTT]

The Core2Duo is essentially a mobile Merom processor where the new MacPro Quad is
using a pair of Core Duo Xeons with all kinds of expandability options.

This is a much different system than the earlier PPC G5 systems.

The Mac is going to be far more versitile allowing you to run ProTools, Logic and even Sonar under XP if you so desire.

You will need to replace any PCI or PCI-X sound cards with PCI-express to work with your Mac Pro.

[theblue1]

OK... where to start. First, I'm a pretty happy Sonar user (since 1996) and I use a MOTU 828mkII.

I say -- and this is something of a general rule for me -- if a person WANTS a Mac or thinks they ought to have a Mac, everything else being equal, they should probably go ahead and do it. Because, otherwise, any little thing that goes wrong with their Windows machine will drive them nuts and they will go around muttering about it and feel hosed.


Now, on the particulars, I'm happy to say that my 828 has been quite stable (USING WDM/KS drivers, mind you! I HAVE had consistent problems with AISO drivers for my MOTU), Sonar has been mostly quite stable (the only problems I've had seem to relate back to the convolution reverb I use, which DID come with Sonar but which was supposedly coded by Voxengo. I use it A LOT and I've only had problems a couple times -- and that MAY actually relate to some tinkering I did within the last few weeks, since things were pretty good before that.)

With regard to latency, I'm afraid ANY Firewire or USB device is going to tend to have more round trip latency than a PCI based converter. That's the nature of the beast.

(Now, there can be a separate issue of what I'll call overdub misalignment. ie, overdubs show up slightly behind where they should be (typically). This has been an ongoing problem with most DAWs that don't otherwise compensate for it (like Cubase with their hardware comp ping-loopback calibration utility or the similar utility in Mackie's Tracktion. I'm TOLD that Sonar 6 has added some sort of utility to deal with that, as well -- "confirmed" by Craig Anderton's EQ review of S6. I haven't used it yet, but Craig's aware of the issues [after a LONG thread in his own forum where no less than CW main man Ron Kuper came in and promised an "interface delay compensation.")

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by pschmailinglist

Hi,

Ok, over the years I have struggled a lot with Windows based system and my MOTUs. PC got freezed many, many times and some times goes absolutely OFF (although the system requirements were already met). I have had also some latency problems with audio recording, among other things..

Will this upgrade with CORE 2 DUO INTEL motherboard, with SONAR 6, will solve all this problems?

thanks..

MOTU don't have a particular good reputation for Windows drivers. Have you tried hiring or borrowing a different interface to see if this give you more stability?

As for latency, what are the problems and in what way will a Mac solve them? If you are just lacking processing power, then any computer upgrade might solve your problems. If it is due to using a firewire interface, no upgrading will help. (At least for the extra latency due to the firewire interface).

You don't mention what your PC setup is or what version of Sonar you use. That info might help us help you. Also, you don't mention what you want and need out of a DAW. That is important to decide which direction to move in.

The solution to your problems might be to get a Mac but that isn't clear from the information you have provided so far.

Alistair

[taturana]

most of the pc freezing problems i've had related to incompatibilities with graphics or network adapters, or memory (ram) problems... not with the software...

that said, sonar 6 is very stable, and motu drivers have been working in my comp for years with no problems. of course some plugins are not as well coded as others, but since sonar 6 came with native vst support, incompatibilities have gotten less frequent.

another thing is that when i built my computer i used premium ram (kingston or such) instead of cheap generic stuff and also used a genuine intel motherboard. my computer can run for months without a single glitch. choose your components well and you'll minimize the chances of something going wrong (don't simply buy a generic closed box system)... but i can guarantee that the motu drivers work just fine on XP, and sonar is very stable. also i recommend at least 2gb ram for audio applications...

[LK7]

I'm actually thinking of going the other way OSX/PTLE to XP/Sonar6.
Why?...
1. Plugin Delay Compensation
2. Price vs Performance

.....thats pretty much it for me.

I'm due for a computer upgrade and I don't have the cash for a Strong Mac system(3K). I can build an equivelent PC system for 1.5K and have all the power I need. I love macs, pc's not so much, if I could run OSX stable on a built PC then I would have it made.
As far as going from PTLE to Sonar goes, I really do agree that it is a downgrade.
I'm a "Certified PT Operator " and have used HD and LE for 3 years now. LE causes a part of my brain to hurt everytime I depend on it for something .

But to each his own, just make sure you really want to take the leap bfore you do it.

[Liam Judah]

Using both (Sonar 6 on PC, and PT Le on Macbook Pro). Been with cakewalk since PA8, and wouldn't dump it for anything at this point (to fast with it after all of these years). I picked up PT (MBOX2) for compatibility purposes, but like I said... wouldn't dump Sonar for it.

[taturana]

Originally Posted by LK7

As far as going from PTLE to Sonar goes, I really do agree that it is a downgrade.

i guess from what you wrote you meant the exact opposite right?

[LK7]

Originally Posted by taturana

i guess from what you wrote you meant the exact opposite right?

um....yeah.
Thanks for the correction

[hi-tech]

You guys running Win XP on the Mac Pro, would any drivers or software need to be updated (if moving from PC to MAC PRO)? Or is it fully compatible as if it was a standalone Win XP PC?

[pschmailinglist]

Originally Posted by LK7

I'm due for a computer upgrade and I don't have the cash for a Strong Mac system(3K). I can build an equivelent PC system for 1.5K and have all the power I need.

Hi,

Can you give me the actual SPECS of that 1.5K system you are talking about?.

Thank you all, for the replies..

[JohnPaulJones]

Originally Posted by pschmailinglist

Hi,
Can you give me the actual SPECS of that 1.5K system you are talking about?.

Here is a sample, including 20" monitor. On a $1500 budget this even leaves some room to add a hard drive or two:

Intel Mid-Range Base System
Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (1.86GHz 2MB Shared) - Retail $185
Motherboard Biostar TForce965PT (P965 775) $111
Memory OCZ S.O.E 2x1GB DDR2-667 (OCZ2SOE6672GK) $221 $30
Video Card PNY GeForce 7600GS 256MB (VCG7600SXPB) $96
Hard Drive Seagate 320GB SATA 3.0Gbps 7200RPM 16MB (Barracuda 7200.10) $90
Optical Drive LG Black 18X DVD+R (GSAH22N-BK) $36
Case Cooler Master Centurion 534 (RC-534-KKN2-GP) $66 $10
Power Supply FSP Group (Fortron Source) 450W (AX450-PN) $62
Display Acer AL2016W 20" 8ms (1680x1050) $233
Speakers Logitech X-530 5.1 70W Speakers $74
Keyboard and Mouse Microsoft Comfort Curve 2000 B2L-00047 $28
Operating System Windows XP MCE 2005 (with Vista coupon) $115
Bottom Line $1317 $1277

[madcowvt]

Originally Posted by pschmailinglist

Hi,

Can you give me the actual SPECS of that 1.5K system you are talking about?.

Thank you all, for the replies..

This may be of interest also...

http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...fpart=1#360675


I am due for a pc upgrade and was thinking of going mac but cannot justify the expense.