OSX on a PC????

[Igotsoul4u]

Given the fact that you can run windows natively on a macintosh, is it now possible to run OSX on a PC with ease?? Anyone know anything about this??? My friend has a PC with an intel core duo processor, same one as the macs have. What kind of hang ups would there be? I have never owned a PC so i wouldn't even know where to start.

[s0nguy]

I've seen it done. It isnt technically legal... but it is possible. Do a google search.

I wouldnt trust it for any DAW use... just for pure "HAHA I did this... F tha MAN!" use.

-s0nguy

[OSX86]

Originally Posted by s0nguy

I've seen it done. It isnt technically legal... but it is possible. Do a google search.

I wouldnt trust it for any DAW use... just for pure "HAHA I did this... F tha MAN!" use.

-s0nguy

Yes, possible and stable. Running Final Cut Suite, Logic Express, DP5, Ableton Live all UB and fast and it never crashes whereas the legit PC does. XP. Ugggg.

Visit osx86.org

Not legal but Apple knows well about that group.

[steff3]

Originally Posted by OSX86

Not legal but ....

Funny, since when do PC users care about legal stuff ;-) And than they complain when plugin companies are scared for PCs as it is the same as being scared for cracks :-)

[mark mcg]

"HAHA I did this... F tha MAN!"

Imagine that...now Steve Jobs is The Man!

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by steff3

Funny, since when do PC users care about legal stuff ;-) And than they complain when plugin companies are scared for PCs as it is the same as being scared for cracks :-)

Beg pardon?

You know, one thing NO ONE likes is to have people make INSULTING generalizations.

I personally am deeply offended by someone suggesing I'm dishonest -- just based on my choice of platforms.

I seriously suggest you reconsider making such sweeping, deeply insulting generalizations.



[UPDATE: What was I on about?!? SORRY! See my post below.]

[statikcat]

Man calm down it doesn't read like he was being dead serious about that. Lighten up.. if you are "personally" offended by that then it is your fault and your probem. Over dramatic much?

[everybody's x]

can someone explain why it would be illegal?

is it illegal to run xp on a mac?

I don't get it, it would seem if you bought the OS you could run it on whatever you wanted to

[UZZI]

Illegal is to smoke a joint on public!

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by statikcat

Man calm down it doesn't read like he was being dead serious about that. Lighten up.. if you are "personally" offended by that then it is your fault and your probem. Over dramatic much?

Oh, you're right, for sure. I suppose I should apologize for going off over almost nothing, which it certainly was. (At least as this stuff goes.)

It's really one of those things that happens in the vector of a longstanding but heretofore uncommented upon (very minor) gripe (as my gripes go), a pre-existing bad mood, and writing that in a coffeehouse environment where a couple of my 3DW friends were going out of their way to keep me from paying attention to what I was trying to do -- I gave that up and thought I couldn't get into trouble if I just scanned a few threads while my can't-take-a-hint friends continued nattering at me but, obviously, I was wrong.

Sorry!

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by everybody's x

can someone explain why it would be illegal?

is it illegal to run xp on a mac?

I don't get it, it would seem if you bought the OS you could run it on whatever you wanted to

It's in the license. Also, since it works with a DRM component in the Intel CPUs, you have to bust DRM -- and that is illegal, thanks to our representatives in Congress. (Yes -- if you bust any form of DRM intended to keep you from violating the specific license the product is sold under whether or not your intended use would otherwise fall under "fair use" doctrine, you are then violating the law. Nice, huh?)

[frugalpole]

Originally Posted by everybody's x

can someone explain why it would be illegal?

is it illegal to run xp on a mac?

I don't get it, it would seem if you bought the OS you could run it on whatever you wanted to

i could be mistaken, but if you install and run osx on a windows machine your not risking prison time, but rather you're risking having your license to use osx revoked, as installing/running it on a windows box is a violation of your user agreement.

jail time (legal consequences) could be in the picture if you didn't pay for the software.



also, i like that ::: steve jobs is the man. that is a quality thought.

[theblue1]

But even that latter would be HIGHLY unlikely. So far.



[Now, burn a bunch of program disks, or commercial DVD copies and sell them, you'll be doing jail time for a second offense, I'm thinking. Quite possibly the first, depending on your operation, the DA, the judge, prison/jail crowding in your area, and your luck.]

[statikcat]

Originally Posted by everybody's x

can someone explain why it would be illegal?

is it illegal to run xp on a mac?

I don't get it, it would seem if you bought the OS you could run it on whatever you wanted to

It is legal to run XP on a Mac. Microsoft wants to sell as many copies of XP as they can.. even if it is on a Mac. Apple however is a hardware company and mainly cares about hardware sales. They just want you on a Mac.. if you put even a legit copy of Tiger on a PC then they didn't get much out of it. Tiger is cheap.. like I said they just want to sell Mac hardware that is why they make software to begin with

[Dysanfel]

It works. It works scary good.

Apple has been eerily silent on enforcing its UA in regards to OSX on a PC. In fact, they took forever to even attempt to shut down a commercial enterprise selling third party Macs. Let alone going after individuals. Apple seems to be more interested in increasing its user base than putting potential customers in prison.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Dysanfel

It works. It works scary good.

Apple has been eerily silent on enforcing its UA in regards to OSX on a PC. In fact, they took forever to even attempt to shut down a commercial enterprise selling third party Macs. Let alone going after individuals. Apple seems to be more interested in increasing its user base than putting potential customers in prison.

Wouldn't it be fairly simple for Apple to build something right into the motherboards which OSX would require in order to install?

-Z-

[Firechild]

Threads like this use to be taken out to digital heaven really fast, why not this time...
But yes,OSX is sometimes running even better on PC components for less money.
I used the "illegal" way, due to the MacPros lack of "old" PCI slots. Now I can use a Quad 3.0Ghz Intel machine with both PCI slots for my UAD card and PCIe cards for my Duendes. Works like a charm.

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by zakco

Wouldn't it be fairly simple for Apple to build something right into the motherboards which OSX would require in order to install?

-Z-

Easily. I believe some PC manufactures have tailored their systems to accept only their version of Windows. The fact Apple does not do this says volumes.

[SONICA]

Hello,

Not sure what you need now to make it work but the last time we did it, you had to have the same video card that Apple was using/or had drivers for, plus the Apple developers kit @ $2000.00.

It could be different now.

Not legal for resale.

[undertone]

One thing anyone who wants to try this should be aware of is that there can be a considerable amount of time and resources spent on getting it to work, especially if you don't have the "right" hardware -ie: hardware that's extremely close to the mac standards. If you're lucky it might be simple, if you're not you could be in for a LOT of reading and dicking... as opposed to making music.

It's definitely more of a tinkerer's adventure, for people well versed in computer hardware and drivers (and inevitably OSX) and it also requires more maintenance and troubleshooting as updates sometimes screw things up. I think that's why Apple has let this project be: it's actually educating those in the know and more than one person who's done this has eventually bought a Mac because they've come to appreciate the benefits.

I know: I'm one of them

[Francis Vaughan]

OSX isn't a simple entity. The operating system component of OSX is Darwin, which is open source. So you can run Darwin on any platform you like. The build of Darwin used in OSX is always known, and in principle you could legally create an identical build and run it yourself.

Running on top of Darwin are the Apple proprietory components that make it OSX. Things like Quartz, Core audio, the finder, etc. etc. These are for the most part designed to run on top of Darwin, not directly on the hardware (that is the whole point of an operating system, to provide the higher levels with a well defined and high level virtual machine abstraction.) So in principle the higher levels of OSX would be expected to run cleanly on an approriate Darwin build, on any hardware that can support Darwin. So indeed, it should come as little surprise that i is not terrifically difficult to run OSX on generic hardware.

On the other hand there are low level components in the run time components that OSX does use, and need to be cloned. This gets you into copyright problems, and is a clear point where it becomes illegal.

Apple do indeed license OSX only for their own hardware. So running it on different hardware is a breach of the license, and almost certainly instantly voids your license. Some idiots bleat that this is monopolistic behaviour, rather forgetting that Apple are not a monopoly, and with, at best, 8% of the computer market, a very long way from being so. So they are not subject to any anti-monopolistic rules, and are quite within their rights to impose these restrictions.

If you buy a copy of OSX, Apple can reasonably suggest that you have bought an upgrade, after all you are installing it on an Apple machine, which would have come with a legitimate OSX license for an earlier version. That copy of Leopard is not really a full right to use anyway. It is a right to upgrade an earlier version of OSX. (Technically it might, or might not do so, but the principle remains.)

Apple are hardly going to go after the odd hobbyist who installs OSX, but they will take out anyone who tries any commercial exploitation.

In the end, it is possible that more widespread use of illegal installs of OSX might lead to some price pressure on Apple. But I rather doubt it.

[lespaul666]

I'd rather spend a few extra bucks and have them both one machine legally, it's much easier to do, to begin with than trying to crack OSX to work on a PC.

[amp]

you can just install it on an external hard drive like i did. i got fed up with all that kext file changing bullshyt, so i bought an imic , a usb ethernet device and some usb midi cables off ebay.all problems solved. and all together, it was less than $75. i havent been back on the pc side since.

[Altitude909]

I played around with 10.5.3 and it works as advertised. The important thing is to have hardware as close as possible to whats in a genuine mac.

The way this works is actually quite brilliant. The core of everything is an emulated EFI. EFI is a comparable to BIOS in a PC and serves pretty much the same functions. With the EFI emulated, OSX will always think that it is running on legit Mac hardware , down the to TPM chip which is used for OS DRM. Ironically, the way windows runs on a mac via bootcamp is the exact same scheme by the system emulating BIOS. Here is a good write up:

PCWiz Computer - [Flow Charts] How OS X/OSx86 Works

[Manfriday]

I was using OSX86 on my daw for a while and it was running pretty well.
Eventually I upgraded to 10.5.4, got a new quad core cpu and things started going to hell.
Seemed like the more cores I used in pro tools LE, the worse it ran. Especially with plugins like amplitube, revolver and DKFH.

I dont know if that was a problem with the plugins, or with my OSX configuration but I got kinda burned out with the fiddling and just went back to my windows OS.

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by lespaul666

I'd rather spend a few extra bucks and have them both one machine legally, it's much easier to do, to begin with than trying to crack OSX to work on a PC.

Then again, if your like me with a PC laying around that just so happens to have one of the three most supported motherboards for OSX86, and a $300 upgrade takes the performance into MacPro range with very little effort, it makes perfect sense.

[Dysanfel]

Originally Posted by Manfriday

Eventually I upgraded to 10.5.4, got a new quad core cpu and things started going to hell.

Did you use the Apple update? One of the big downsides right now is that anything past 10.5.2 does not seem to be 100% quite yet. Kalyway 10.5.4 does not even exist yet. Give it time. This is still fledgling technology.

[DannyMac]

With work it can run on PC hardware, but every update seems to mess with stability/working at all.

Don't do it myself, but my CGI programer friends mess with it alot

[bluehiro]

I'm running 10.5.3 right now and it's fast, like scary fast actually. When I built my computer a few months back I made a point of purchasing hardware that would work well with OS X so it really didn't cost me any extra. I purchased a legit copy of Leopard (my offering to Cupertino) and I've been using OS X happily ever since. (disclaimer: I do own a MacBook)

Now for the downsides. You have to invest serious amounts of time to get everything working great. And every update is like Russian roulette. I'm a poor student so it was totally worth it. For the less tech-savy an iMac or MacPro would be a better alternative. In fact a friend of mine looked into building a PC like mine to run OSX and in the end she bought the cheapest configuration of the Mac Pro.

Honestly, I have learned so much about OSX by running it on a PC. As silly as this may sound, it just works on a mac so to see it not work; run it on a PC ;-). Really helped prepare me for purchasing my first mac.

[Manfriday]

Did you use the Apple update

Nope, I did the combo update, as per the netkas instructions.