new laptop in the new year

[dubrichie]

alrighty,

i'll be looking to buy a new laptop in the new year for recording and mixing.

i run samp 9 pro with an RME FF800.

i would LIKE to have a FW800 port, but at least 1 FW400 if that is not possible, 2 internal HDs would be great, dual monitor support, 1GB RAM (expandable) and Intel Core 2 Duo based.

i'm in Ireland so will probably order from the UK.

not interested in a Mac.

sturdyness and reliability both welcome.

any suggestions? even of a particular retailer/manufacturer?

budget will be €2K, maybe EX VAT if i can buy it through work (fingers crossed)

many thanks,

merry christmas,

richie.

[dubrichie]

bumpage!

[kingcrimson]

Have you heard of Digital Village? They do custom made Computers/Laptop's specifically for Computer Music, check out there web site and look up DVPC and then Laptops they make some pretty good ones.

hope this helps

www.dv247.com

Chris

[leifislive]

any of the ibm/lenovo thinkpads. never had any problems...

[sordeli]

Sonica Labs, I love my sonica1784 with Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz processor upgrade using fireface 800 & cubase sx, Im using isa 428 adatout, cloked to the ua2192, runing 10 digital channels (8 adat +2 spdif)at 88khz/24 bit AMAZING!!!thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

[leifislive]

If you rely on your system, I would not go with any of the "special for audio" notebooks, since these notebooks are in most cases nothing else but assembled barebone notebooks. I would look for things like warranty and at-home service; the last can be very very helpful, if you can't work.

When buying a notebook, I would also think about, whether this is a desktop replacement or whether this is a real on the road notebook.
From my and some of my friends experiences, I would take a T series lenovo and use a PCMCIA card with TI instruments chip for firewire. You can save some money by taking either a Z or R series IBM, since they have both firewire installed.

Try to take advantage of education prices.

One of the main points I like about IBM is, that almost every detail is optimized for mobile use: They are sturdy (mine survived a crash with a pinboard), you can spill fuild over them, you can let them drop 30cm while running, they have a perfect notebook keyboard, you can get docking stations even with PCIe halflength and another harddisk board an useable digital audio out.
Big plus: IBM/Lenovo have a proven record of supplying universities and big companies...

If you remove the pre-installed windows and add the lenovo/IBM drivers you essentially want and need, you will be fine.

Best,

Leif

[redddog]

Do yourself a favor and don't make any final decisions without talking to Guy at Sonica. They have amazingly low prices and the best customer service in the industry. Just call them and I guarantee you'll use them.

[leifislive]

The problem is: What happens if your sonica system fails, no matter how good it is tuned for audio and how good the bargain may be? If they don't have a service in Europe, that's at least 10 days being without the computer. And I suppose this to happen with any notebook in at least 50% of the cases no matter what...

I don't blame their products to be **** without having used them. I just don't see the point for their and equivalent audio products considering my and my friends experiences with failing computer hardware. A working and fast service is a must, if you need your system for earning money (that's basically my remaining problem with apple). If it is for fun than it does not matter so much...

Best,
Leif

[dubrichie]

thanks for all the replies.

this will be both a desktop replacement AND a real on the road system. it will be used for location recordings AND as the main mixing rig back at home base as it were.

i'm looking hard at the IBM Lenovos.

a question, does FW800 work properly with Win XP yet?

i really want to be running my FF800 and Glyph GT 062 (in RAID 0) over FW800.

i haven't yet found a PC laptop with FW800.

to this end i have been looking at the Macbook Pro.

but this would require running Win XP with Bootcamp.

good idea / bad idea?

many thanks,

richie.

[leifislive]

I have a macbook pro for my university work. I do run samplitude 9 on it. so far, i was using the motu traveler. not working under botcamp with my macbook pro, although others users are using it succesfully with old core duo 1 macbook pro. The traveler is alright under OS/X.

I had a chat with magix, and they stated,the fireface 800 works reliable with a new core duo 2 macbook pro on the macbooks of a number of clients.
I am therefore wondering wether to switch to RME, since it has two ADATs and the traveler has also some other flaws (42V phantom power, wokring increasingly more reliable with any driver upgrade (though I don't care since I have a fostex d2424 for on the mobile recording as well)...)

Compared to my t42p (1.7G,2GB), track bouncing takes exactly half the time with the macbook pro (2.11G/2GB).

If you have the money, the 17inch MBP will be a good dektop replacements. However, considering the future of computers, it is probably best to buy the cheapest 2.16 G (as I did), upgrade to three years of warranty, and sell it in two years or so, depending on your needs.

I consider Apple to be more dektop replacement and IBM to be more mobile. (I have writte na sumary in another going mac thread).

I cannot comment for FW800 and RAID support under XP, I have not used it.

Have fun.

[leifislive]

To complete my computer CV...:

I was using a Toshiba Tecra S1 before having the IBM. I used the M audio 1814, tried the RME Fireface 800 (didn't use it due to price) and later on the Motu traveler in stead of the Fireface (due to price). I was using a PCMCIA from Expansys with TI instruments chipset in order to have a FW port.

I had no problems with the M Audio and the RME. I had a lot of trouble with the toshiba amd the traveler. My girlfriends IBM R50 did not have any problems with the traveler (via the internal firewire port).

Later I got the t42p, because the toshiba was failling again and againg and in service again and again.

The T series does not have a firewire port. So I used the PCMCIA. Occassionally, the traveler is not recognized (may be one out of 20). This happened once to me, while recording our university orchestra. Since I have the Fostex d2424, no problem, but it made me aware of the fact, that firewire support and XP and MOTU can be a tricky thing.
I have to say, that I did not change the standard lenovo XP. Doing that on the toshiba made dropouts less common, but still remained.

That is what I start to like about the Macbook: bus powered firewire support is no problem. Even using the opensource Ardour resulted in practically no-brain recording compared to windows firewire... even with the traveler...
Going with the windows XP, I would rather stay with PCMCIA solutions, but there is no equivalent to the fireface800 using PCMCIA.
If samplitude would run under OS/X I would by outmost happy....

However, things may change with VISTA, you can't tell....

[dubrichie]

ok, so are you saying that Samp 9 Pro DOES run in OSX on a Macbook Pro, or are you running Windows on the Mac or what?

is Samp not Windows-only?

im confoisted!

regards,

richie.

[leifislive]

Hi,

Samp is windows only. I run bootcamp in order to install a XP on the macbook pro and it is working that way correctly. However, my MOTU traveler is not working under bootcamp/XP with my core duo 2 (!!!) macbook pro. It is reproted to work flawlessly with the core duo 1 macbook pro.
According to Magix, RME FF800 is working correctly with a core duo 2 macbook pro.

So, if you can take usage of the Mac-world, it is very hard to decide. If not I would go with a Lenovo/IBM Thinkpad. Do you need the notebook for music only? What exactly?

About Apple, I like the buspowered firewire support and I start to like OS/X (fast booting, no problems installing software, unix based).

I dislike about apple no at-home service, more expensive than IBM/Lenovo and the overall construction of the macbook compared to the Thinkpads, which make them appeal for me to be a design product, which is not perfectyl optimized for some of the trouble you will encounter when you are mobile (only one battery, no completely flexible display, not proven the 30cm free fall and spill coffee over the keyboard, magnetic power plug is easy to be removed by accident, no direct access to the CD ROM).

Try to take advantage of education prices, these rock with IBM/Lenovo sometimes quite a lot.


Best

Leif

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by leifislive

Hi,

Samp is windows only. I run bootcamp in order to install a XP on the macbook pro and it is working that way correctly. However, my MOTU traveler is not working under bootcamp/XP with my core duo 2 (!!!) macbook pro. It is reproted to work flawlessly with the core duo 1 macbook pro.
According to Magix, RME FF800 is working correctly with a core duo 2 macbook pro.

The 17" Macbrook rpo is $3k. The Sonica is $2k.

http://www.shop-sonica.com/pd_d1784.cfm

[SONICA]

Originally Posted by leifislive

If you rely on your system, I would not go with any of the "special for audio" notebooks, since these notebooks are in most cases nothing else but assembled barebone notebooks. I would look for things like warranty and at-home service; the last can be very very helpful, if you can't work.

When buying a notebook, I would also think about, whether this is a desktop replacement or whether this is a real on the road notebook.
From my and some of my friends experiences, I would take a T series lenovo and use a PCMCIA card with TI instruments chip for firewire. You can save some money by taking either a Z or R series IBM, since they have both firewire installed.

Try to take advantage of education prices.

One of the main points I like about IBM is, that almost every detail is optimized for mobile use: They are sturdy (mine survived a crash with a pinboard), you can spill fuild over them, you can let them drop 30cm while running, they have a perfect notebook keyboard, you can get docking stations even with PCIe halflength and another harddisk board an useable digital audio out.
Big plus: IBM/Lenovo have a proven record of supplying universities and big companies...

If you remove the pre-installed windows and add the lenovo/IBM drivers you essentially want and need, you will be fine.

Best,

Leif

Hello,

First, 95% of all notebooks sold worldwide by any company are made by three companies. So, what you will find at most tier 5 companies is "assembled barebone notebooks". I sould know since I used to manage the Integration and Test lab at one of them.

As an example, the same company that has been making Dell laptops for 20 years makes the Sonica D1580 laptop.

Second, not all laptops are created equal and for a few tracks, most will work. On the other hand, not all can run with any firewire device @ 1.5 ms latency without buffer errors for a prolonged period of time. As an example; 2 hour live concert. This is why we sell most laptops to previous Dell, Compaq and IBM owners. 85% of our laptop customers had a laptop before.

Third, some require the pro audio support that we provide including the installation of audio drivers and software.


So, the following statement;

"If you rely on your system, I would not go with any of the "special for audio" notebooks, since these notebooks are in most cases nothing else but assembled barebone notebooks"

doesn't really make much sense to me.


If you are up to it, post the IRQ info on your Lenovo T series on this thread and I will continue this discussion.


start/all programs/acessories/system tools/system information/+ on hardware resources/IRQs

[ersheff]

Originally Posted by Henchman

The 17" Macbrook rpo is $3k. The Sonica is $2k.

http://www.shop-sonica.com/pd_d1784.cfm

The 17" Macbook Pro is $2800, not $3000.
AND it has a 2.33ghz C2D vs. the Sonica's 2.0.
AND it has a dedicated video card with 256MB RAM.
AND it has FW800.
AND it weighs a little over a pound less.
AND it has a higher resolution 17" LCD. (1680X1050 vs. 1440X900).
AND if you equip the MBP with a 100GB 7200rpm drive (like the Sonica's), it drops to $2700.
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
To be fair, the Sonica does have a few ports the MBP doesn't have (one more USB port, an eSATA port), but it sounds like the OP could benefit from the FW800. The Sonica comes standard with a 2 year warranty (vs. Apple's 1 year). Purchasing Applecare would give you 3 years.
Also, the video card issue is a moot point when it comes to audio.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by mopppish

The 17" Macbook Pro is $2800, not $3000.
AND it has a 2.33ghz C2D vs. the Sonica's 2.0.
AND it has a dedicated video card with 256MB RAM.
AND it has FW800.
AND it weighs a little over a pound less.
AND it has a higher resolution 17" LCD. (1680X1050 vs. 1440X900).
AND if you equip the MBP with a 100GB 7200rpm drive (like the Sonica's), it drops to $2700.
Sorry. I couldn't resist.
To be fair, the Sonica does have a few ports the MBP doesn't have (one more USB port, an eSATA port), but it sounds like the OP could benefit from the FW800. The Sonica comes standard with a 2 year warranty (vs. Apple's 1 year). Purchasing Applecare would give you 3 years.
Also, the video card issue is a moot point when it comes to audio.

Well, with the applecare program, the Macbook ends up being $3150.

And for me personnaly, In would get the Sonica 1580.

CPU: Intel 64 Bit Core 2 Duo 2.0 Ghz processor T7200 4MB L2 cache
FSB: 667Mhz Front Side Buss
RAM: 2GB DDR-2 (667 MHz Dual Channel - Matched Pair) 2GB max
Hard Disk Drive: 100GB 7200RPM with 8MB buffer
Screen: 15.4" WSXGA+ (1680x1050) TFT Color Non-Glare Display
Optical Drive: Super-Multi 2x(2.4x)/4x/24x/24x8x/24
Card Reader: 4 in 1 Card reader SD/MMC/MS/MS-Pro
USB Ports: 3 USB 2.0
1394 IEEE: Firewire 400 Port Non Shared IRQ line for uninterrupted audio
Video: nVidia GO 7600 256MB Dedicated RAM VGA and TV outputs
PCIe ExpressCard 34/54 Slot: One (1)
PCMCIA Card Slot: One (1) Type II
Camera: 1.3 Mega Pixel
Fingerprint Reader: Integrated fingerprint biometric reader
LAN: Gigabit LAN + Azalia V.90 Modem + Wireless LAN 3945 a/b/g
Audio: Intel High Definition 2-channel audio subsystem
Battery: 6 cell Smart Li-Ion battery 64W/Hrs, 4 Hrs., Built-in gauge IC
Quiet Technology: Ultra-Quiet Intel Precision Cooling Technology
Operating System: Windows XP Audio Tuned

Reason being, I don'ty really want to lug a 17" laptop around with me.
And it has both regulat PCMCIA and PCIe Express cardslots.
An important feature, as I use a mini magma 4-slot expansion chassis, with a cardbus adapter.

[leifislive]

Please calm down...

The first point I wanted to made is: dubrichie lives in ireland. sonica is in the states as far as I am aware of.
If the notebook is out of work (what will happen in 50% of the cases with in three years) then he has to send it to the states.

I have not yet used the Lenovo at-home service but a friend has, even for a minor problem with the little plastic like feet of the noebook. They came within 24hours and solved what he wanted to have solved. I just doubt, that sonica is a company of that size which can handle such an issue so quickly over here in Europe, or do you have a customer service net overe here?

The second - yet unanswered point - is: what does he need his computer for?

The question I raise is: Are Sonica Notebooks from an hardware aspect any different from already existing notebooks (let's say dell, compaq, IBM etc.) and if so, in which aspects? Or is the main work done by tweaking your operating system? I am well aware, that most notebooks are built by a small number of companies. However they are build/assembled according to different specifications.

That's all. I would just like to point to this problem and leave out all that stupid emotional discussion (which then usually somehow gets into something equivalent to Millennia vs. Grace mic preamp non sense discussions)

Best,
Leif

p.s.: if I have the time over the next days to have a look at the IRQ I will. Right now, I am not at home.

[danasti]

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/n...ramid=80001270

base price is $1400. 15.4" 2.0 duo gig proc 1680x1054 1 gig ram 256meg nvidia 7600

configured for audio (w/7200 rpm 100gig and 2gig ram $1744)

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/n...ramid=80001220

17" 2.0 gig duo 2gig ram 100gig 7200rpm ati x1600 about $1950

Big Dog!
17" 1920x1200 2.0 duo w/4meg cache 2gig ram 80gig 7200rpm system drive + 512 meg nvidia 7950 vid card... $2599 $2979 w/2.33 proc upgrade

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/go_np5960.html

This is their 20 inch widescreen

Sager is a really solid company in my experience but I've never needed any tech support.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by danasti

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/n...ramid=80001270

base price is $1400. 15.4" 2.0 duo gig proc 1680x1054 1 gig ram 256meg nvidia 7600

configured for audio (w/7200 rpm 100gig and 2gig ram $1744)

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/n...ramid=80001220

17" 2.0 gig duo 2gig ram 100gig 7200rpm ati x1600 about $1950

Big Dog!
17" 1920x1200 2.0 duo w/4meg cache 2gig ram 80gig 7200rpm system drive + 512 meg nvidia 7950 vid card... $2599 $2979 w/2.33 proc upgrade

http://www.sagernotebook.com/pages/go_np5960.html

This is their 20 inch widescreen

Sager is a really solid company in my experience but I've never needed any tech support.

Their 17" is the better deal. It also has the optiuon to add another internal HD. Which is what I would do.