45.3% drop in musical groups and artists

[Eat]

Get in line. The whole worlds in the shitter. I wanna start my life over knowing what I know now.

[John Eppstein]

45.3% over 10 years, with the decline starting BEFORE the economy crashed.

45.3% is a LOT worse than any other industry. It's even worse than the newspaper and magazine industries.

This is what happens when people stop paying a fair price for work. We need to raise music prices to a sustainable level.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by Eat

I wanna start my life over knowing what I know now.

Why bother? It'll all be obsolete in 10 years, anyway. Again.

[guid0]

Originally Posted by Eat

Get in line. The whole worlds in the shitter.

Yup. That's what you get when you put MBA-laden vermin F***tards in charge of everything.

[Eat]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

Why bother? It'll all be obsolete in 10 years, anyway. Again.

Actually I'd go back to the early to mid 60's and get in on the advertising explosion with my commercial photography experience. Then, start a band copping all of Zeppelin's tunes before they do.

note to self: buy apple stock

[Eat]

Originally Posted by guid0

Yup. That's what you get when you put MBA-laden vermin F***tards in charge of everything.

I'd trade all this computer/internet stuff in a heartbeat to go back to when listening and discovering new music was always very exciting and special.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by guid0

Yup. That's what you get when you put MBA-laden vermin F***tards in charge of everything.

yup, that's google for ya. tip o the iceberg...

Google Says “It’s Our Web”–and they bought it fair and square

UPDATE: It’s Getting to be a Habit: Google Stonewalls and Takes the 5th

Would Lofgren Like Yet Another Apology to Google?

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

45.3% over 10 years, with the decline starting BEFORE the economy crashed.

45.3% is a LOT worse than any other industry. It's even worse than the newspaper and magazine industries.

This is what happens when people stop paying a fair price for work. We need to raise music prices to a sustainable level.

to wit:
Music 3.0 - The Blog Behind The Book: Making A Living Is The New Success

[claesbjo]

Sometimes I get the feeling that music just isn´t that hot anymore.

[thenoodle]

Look at the bright side. You're not considering opening a video rental store or becoming a blacksmith.

[joelpatterson]

Now watch, videos about blacksmithing will become the next "thing."

[Beat Poet]

Originally Posted by claesbjo

Sometimes I get the feeling that music just isn´t that hot anymore.

To casual fans, music as a standalone product isn't that hot anymore I guess yeah. Music's become something you have on in the background while you're doing something else.

[Eat]

Originally Posted by claesbjo

Sometimes I get the feeling that music just isn´t that hot anymore.

Ya know, if I heard some of the music being made today back in the 70's and 80's, it probably would've knocked my socks off. But now, there's so much out there in pretty much any genre, style and permutations thereof, it's all become a big yawn in a lot of ways

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

This is what happens when people stop paying a fair price for work. We need to raise music prices to a sustainable level.

Yeah...raising prices will inspire people to buy more music.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by thenoodle

Look at the bright side. You're not considering opening a video rental store or becoming a blacksmith.

Oddly enough it IS possible to make a living as a blacksmith these days - a good living - because there are so few of them.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

Yeah...raising prices will inspire people to buy more music.

Actually, yes, based on surveys of marketing psychology it's quite conceivable that it might.

There have been studies of cases where two products were exactly the same thing with the exception of the brand name (and attendant marketing) and the exterior case trim. One product sold as a budget brand, the other as a premium brand. Oddly enough, the budget brand did NOT wildly outsell the premium. It did sell more units, total - but not enough to make up the price difference. The premium brand was more profitable. This phenomenon is actually quite common in the consumer electronics industry where devices are cranked out in huge quantities by OEM factories and sold to other companies for rebranding.

There have also been studies that indicate that in some cases raising prices actually can cause sales to increase by raising the public's perceptions of a product's value. How many times have we seen a product - for example a microphone from a company like Oktava or Cascade - that is introduced at a dirt cheap price but within a few years has increased in value so that the cost is double or more of the original?

The idea that the way to fight sagging market share was to drop prices was stupid. All that does is decrease profitability. And create an impression that the product is worth less.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by Beat Poet

To casual fans, music as a standalone product isn't that hot anymore I guess yeah. Music's become something you have on in the background while you're doing something else.

that's always been the case, since the invention of phono players and radio.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by rack gear

that's always been the case, since the invention of phono players and radio.

Erm, player pianos.

[dan p]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

45.3% over 10 years, with the decline starting BEFORE the economy crashed.

45.3% is a LOT worse than any other industry. It's even worse than the newspaper and magazine industries.

This is what happens when people stop paying a fair price for work. We need to raise music prices to a sustainable level.

THe future is here now.
Its called Robotics,The Cloud,Virtual Banking,Business's online.
Many see no paycheck from their music so why invest.
Music is now a sub genre of the entertainment world.Now split up all the genre's within music and you have sub of the subs.
I'm lucky,I've been successful in the past,now just a living but increasing through licensing though thats been cheapened though middlemen publishers and the internet.
Bottom line is Quote you John "This is what happens when people stop paying a fair price for work. We need to raise music prices to a sustainable level."
Maybe the ISP's and the internet police can rev up their cyberstings.....
I want one of those hats...

[jitterybit]

I attribute this solely to zero artist being on the radio anymore

Originally Posted by Beat Poet

Music's become something you have on in the background while you're doing something else.

yea baby!

no, seriously, not a single decent (current) rock band on the radio. All taken over by xerox rock. And you expect the guitar hero generation to be doing something new and starting bands? The mass public doesn't want to socialize in a club. They want to read about how someone else did it, in 30 words or less, on fecking facebook. The next musical revolution will be after the point where I am too old to get it.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by dan p

THe future is here now.
Its called Robotics,The Cloud,Virtual Banking,Business's online.
Many see no paycheck from their music so why invest.
Music is now a sub genre of the entertainment world.Now split up all the genre's within music and you have sub of the subs.
I'm lucky,I've been successful in the past,now just a living but increasing through licensing though thats been cheapened though middlemen publishers and the internet.
Bottom line is Quote you John "This is what happens when people stop paying a fair price for work. We need to raise music prices to a sustainable level."
Maybe the ISP's and the internet police can rev up their cyberstings.....
I want one of those hats...

six strikes this july, coming to an isp near you.

[dan p]

Originally Posted by rack gear

six strikes this july, coming to an isp near you.

Yep,I remember seeing that and will it work?
People can be controlled like sheep really but not en masse without physical force.

[initialsBB]

Originally Posted by jitterybit

no, seriously, not a single decent (current) rock band on the radio.

Originally Posted by jitterybit

The next musical revolution will be after the point where I am too old to get it.

next? try last.

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

Actually, yes, based on surveys of marketing psychology it's quite conceivable that it might.

There have been studies of cases where two products were exactly the same thing with the exception of the brand name (and attendant marketing) and the exterior case trim. One product sold as a budget brand, the other as a premium brand. Oddly enough, the budget brand did NOT wildly outsell the premium. It did sell more units, total - but not enough to make up the price difference. The premium brand was more profitable. This phenomenon is actually quite common in the consumer electronics industry where devices are cranked out in huge quantities by OEM factories and sold to other companies for rebranding.

There have also been studies that indicate that in some cases raising prices actually can cause sales to increase by raising the public's perceptions of a product's value. How many times have we seen a product - for example a microphone from a company like Oktava or Cascade - that is introduced at a dirt cheap price but within a few years has increased in value so that the cost is double or more of the original?

The idea that the way to fight sagging market share was to drop prices was stupid. All that does is decrease profitability. And create an impression that the product is worth less.

Then Barnes and Noble should be lighting up Wall Street with their ridiculous sales numbers since they still use late 80's pricing on CD's. I suppose the fact that best buy and a lot of other retailers barely have CD's for sale is not helping. On the other hand I have collected a slew of killer disks @ 4.99 a pop at these stores.

We are not selling perfume or trendy items. Raising prices in this arena will not help the problem.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by AudioWonderland

Then Barnes and Noble should be lighting up Wall Street with their ridiculous sales numbers since they still use late 80's pricing on CD's. I suppose the fact that best buy and a lot of other retailers barely have CD's for sale is not helping. On the other hand I have collected a slew of killer disks @ 4.99 a pop at these stores.

We are not selling perfume or trendy items. Raising prices in this arena will not help the problem.

No, that's not it. The price increase has to be ACROSS THE BOARD in order to work. In other words the price on a given product has to go up everywhere.

The dog in the manger is big box stores like Best Buy and Wal-mart that price retail music under their wholesale cost as a loss leader. This destroys the market. The industry needs to wise up and stop dealing with these outlets. It's the Best Buys and Wal-marts that destroyed the business of dedicated record stores.

The record industry needs to regain control of their market. They've allowed too many hostile entities to usurp control.

The reason that company A can support a selling price for (for example) a DVD player that is 5 times what Company B charges for the exact same unit housed in a different outer shell is that Company A does not permit their dealers to slash prices to an absurd loevel. They maintain the perceived quality of the brand in the eye of the customer even though they're selling the exact same product as the el cheapo brand..

The way to accomplish such a realignment of prices is (1) ditch the dealers that use your product as a loss leader and (2) slowly increase retail prices at your remaining outlets, frog in a pot of water style. Don't hit your customers with the increase all at once, do it over a longer period of time.

[lobsterinn]

@ John Eppstein: You might be right, but there is no homogenous music industry anymore which can leverage the market to raise prices. There will always be labels / artists / consumers who refuse to jump in with any across the board solution. Who is going to regulate how much an independent artist charges for fans to download songs from their website?

But this leaves out the more fundamental issue of why the entire creative industry is faltering. It isn't just the internet and illegal downloading. It isn't just the recession. There is a greater cultural and political shift happening. People just don't value the arts as much. It is a sign of a society in decline.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by lobsterinn

@ John Eppstein: You might be right, but there is no homogenous music industry anymore which can leverage the market to raise prices. There will always be labels / artists / consumers who refuse to jump in with any across the board solution. Who is going to regulate how much an independent artist charges for fans to download songs from their website?

But this leaves out the more fundamental issue of why the entire creative industry is faltering. It isn't just the internet and illegal downloading. It isn't just the recession. There is a greater cultural and political shift happening. People just don't value the arts as much. It is a sign of a society in decline.

absolute nonsense.

[John Eppstein]

Originally Posted by lobsterinn

@ John Eppstein: You might be right, but there is no homogenous music industry anymore which can leverage the market to raise prices. There will always be labels / artists / consumers who refuse to jump in with any across the board solution. Who is going to regulate how much an independent artist charges for fans to download songs from their website?

But this leaves out the more fundamental issue of why the entire creative industry is faltering. It isn't just the internet and illegal downloading. It isn't just the recession. There is a greater cultural and political shift happening. People just don't value the arts as much. It is a sign of a society in decline.

Because of the site ban on piracy discussions I can't discuss this adequately. Perhaps some time in the future Jules will loosen the Rules a bit, but until then I'm muzzled.

However, I will say this - your premise is flawed and your reasoning is incorrect. The one is the cause of the other. After corrections are made to bring the one back under control the other will follow.

[lobsterinn]

Originally Posted by John Eppstein

Because of the site ban on piracy discussions I can't discuss this adequately. Perhaps some time in the future Jules will loosen the Rules a bit, but until then I'm muzzled.

However, I will say this - your premise is flawed and your reasoning is incorrect. The one is the cause of the other. After corrections are made to bring the one back under control the other will follow.

Oops. Didn't realize there was a verboten topic on the forum. You're right. This can't be adequately discussed without dealing with the elephant in the room.

I'm guessing we wouldn't agree on which problem is a symptom and which is the underlying disease. Oh well, I guess we can go back to talking about microphones.