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This kind Label Chicanery Is Why Labels are hated.
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sventvkg
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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This kind Label Chicanery Is Why Labels are hated.

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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by sventvkg View Post
Seriously..Defend them all you want but there is no call for this kind of shit anymore as people are much more savvy as to what's up. All am asking for a transparency and full disclosure..Instead, they CONTINUE to behave like utter thieves. This is why they are hated...These kind of tactics are SOP and they make me sick.

Digital Music News - The Various Ways In Which Capitol Records Screwed Kenny Rogers...
so what? it's an accounting and contract dispute, which means he'll get a settlement and get PAID.

where are the contracts with the pirate bay to dispute?

I seriously don't get this... you think labels are bad because they give artists contracts and accountings that can be disputed and resolved...

but pirates are good because they take everything, pay nothing, and there's nothing to dispute or resolve? F'n seriously?



explain to me again how piracy is better? you have a very interesting way of looking at the world...
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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3 years to get an accounting and still he can't get everything he needs...No transparancy, obvious shady dealings....No reason for the theft in 2012.

Labels are and have always been Thieving bastards. PERIOD....Piracy is their Karma coming back to them. I'm certain of it.

I never said Piracy is better, did I?

Piracy sucks. I like peer to peer file exchange if it's sanctioned by the artist but if the artist does not grant permission, then NO GO. I do like the streaming model though When I want to check music out, I go to Spotify these days.
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Give it up already...

Q: How much money has Kenny Rogers made from Capital /EMI?

A: Tens of Millions, if not more...

Q: How much money has Kenny Rogers made from Piracy?

A: None. Zero. Zilch. Zippo. Nadda.

So who's the bad guy again? The one paying tens of millions or the ones paying nothing?

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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Actually Kenny had it coming in a karmic sense for foisting " the gambler " and " coward of the county " upon and unsuspecting public !!!

I wonder if , as in any industry , their have been good citizens and bad ? Maybe it's the train wrecks that get all the pub??

Any ways , things will never be the same and the modern artist should be better informed . Just another example why every artist needs to have a entertainment lawyer on his side ( assuming he or she can make enough cabbage to afford one ??)


Don't waste yer energy hating on the " all the labels are/were bad" cliche ;...
Every business has to have partners to help them ; you can't do it all yourself ; there aren't enough hours in a day ......Just gotta find some reliable , folks who posses integrity to work with ..............

Right my Viking friend??
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by sventvkg View Post
3 years to get an accounting and still he can't get everything he needs...No transparancy, obvious shady dealings....No reason for the theft in 2012.

Labels are and have always been Thieving bastards. PERIOD....Piracy is their Karma coming back to them. I'm certain of it.

I never said Piracy is better, did I?

Piracy sucks. I like peer to peer file exchange if it's sanctioned by the artist but if the artist does not grant permission, then NO GO. I do like the streaming model though When I want to check music out, I go to Spotify these days.
Great. Spotify - that refuses to make public the formula the use to figure payments, pays less than any other (non-pirate) outlet, refuses to divulge ANY of their financials, etc, etc, etc. They make Capitol look like angels.



By the way - How much has Kenny Rogers made from Spotify?
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by sventvkg View Post

Labels are and have always been Thieving bastards. PERIOD....Piracy is their Karma coming back to them. I'm certain of it.

I thought you were putting yourself forward as the intelligent voice of the next generation.

Firstly, you just cannot, cannot generalize about 'labels' as a mass group. It's absolute and utter BS.
There are thousands and thousands of labels, and thousands of different ways of doing label business and treating artists.
Second, piracy is getting back at musicians. Great. Let's punish musicians for the sins (claimed) of labels.
You really need to be better than this, this is piracy propaganda 101.
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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The real irony is that as the entire music business becomes and even bigger den of inequity , more and more folks who could have become successful in some aspect of music will instead choose to go to LAW SCHOOL !!!

And it's the artist and the label who have the dispute going that in the end, will only make the blood sucking lawyers richer by paying them to throw more gas on the fire ....




WE ARE DOOMED



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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post

I thought you were putting yourself forward as the intelligent voice of the next generation.

Firstly, you just cannot, cannot generalize about 'labels' as a mass group. It's absolute and utter BS.
There are thousands and thousands of labels, and thousands of different ways of doing label business and treating artists.
Second, piracy is getting back at musicians. Great. Let's punish musicians for the sins (claimed) of labels.
You really need to be better than this, this is piracy propaganda 101.
You're a label guy right? I can generalize because it's true and always has been true for the vast majority of major record labels and deals. Give it up man..It's becoming a Farce...Seriously, this is the only place where you'll find such a concentration of label apologists
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23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Great. Spotify - that refuses to make public the formula the use to figure payments, pays less than any other (non-pirate) outlet, refuses to divulge ANY of their financials, etc, etc, etc. They make Capitol look like angels.


By the way - How much has Kenny Rogers made from Spotify?

Oh give me a break man! Talk to me when Spotify has 60 years of lawsuits, misdeeds and thieving behind them....
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flatfinger View Post
The real irony is that as the entire music business becomes and even bigger den of inequity , more and more folks who could have become successful in some aspect of music will instead choose to go to LAW SCHOOL !!!

And it's the artist and the label who have the dispute going that in the end, will only make the blood sucking lawyers richer by paying them to throw more gas on the fire ....




WE ARE DOOMED




If the labels were honest there would be complete transparency and an artist such as Rogers, shouldn't have to waste 3 years auditing his royalties from a Major label. PERIOD...If it quacks like a duck.....
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Eppstein View Post
Great. Spotify - that refuses to make public the formula the use to figure payments, pays less than any other (non-pirate) outlet, refuses to divulge ANY of their financials, etc, etc, etc. They make Capitol look like angels.

Maybe it's secret because the Labels own part of it and don't WANT the artists to know what they are making??...Maybe it's because they are ****ing Thieves!! Could that be? I wonder...
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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You're a label guy right? I can generalize because it's true and always has been true for the vast majority of major record labels and deals. Give it up man..It's becoming a Farce...Seriously, this is the only place where you'll find such a concentration of label apologists
Labels invest, promote, develop and pay...

Pirates do nothing but take...

So again who's the real bad guys here? So blinded by your own angst that you can't even acknowledge the obvious... Wow, just wow.
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23rd February 2012
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If the labels were honest .....

Yup , if humans would all be nice then the world would be a paradise .You have a point there , a realistic , could actually happen point.....


Anyhow , continue to make wide and sweeping generalizations about a huge group of individuals . It's allot easier to find articles about the mayhem the labels have caused than it is to find articles about the opposite . That's the news biz then ; no news is good news!!!! And of course it goes without saying that an artist has never been led astray by his legal representation , or talked into trying to run a law suit up a pole to see if it would fly .

It is always unequivocally the labels fault , without exception , ever , period . I agree , everyone involved who ever worked for a label needs to be rounded up and put on a space shuttle to the moon !!!! They are all bad to the bone .

**** the Labels ! goddam communist bastards
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23rd February 2012
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Maybe it's secret because the Labels own part of it and don't WANT the artists to know what they are making??...Maybe it's because they are ****ing Thieves!! Could that be? I wonder...
And so using that logic how is Spotify a new and better model?

Pick a lie and stick to it already.
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23rd February 2012
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Mike Errico on New Model, Old Model...No Model | Mike Errico



Quote:
1) There is no “new model.” There is Chaos, and Chaos is not a model. We artists cannot treat it as such. Pointing out looters in the middle of a riot is an exercise in enforceability. Do the looters know this? Oh, yes.

2) The proponents of “new model” are not hatched, fully formed, from another ecosystem. They have largely jumped from the “old models” they now disavow. They HATE old Tide, and LOVE new Tide. Because music is widgets, for most. Stick around as long as Lowery and I have, and watch die-hard music biz lifers break off into real estate, Reiki massage, and the Canadian Mounted Police (true story).


I hate those old guard labels SSOOO much !!!! They are the root of ALL evil !!!

They caused ALL of what's currently wrong!!!

BASTARDS


Hope ole Kenny get's all the bread he can and spends it something more fun that more plastic surgery !! He's not long on this rock !!!

Any how Viking , there's nothing wrong with getting upset at injustices , I understand where you're coming from ; It's just kinda hard figure who's really to blame for this shit storm . I get a feeling there's lot's of other responsible parties too! Don't you ?
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo View Post
Labels invest, promote, develop and pay...

Pirates do nothing but take...

So again who's the real bad guys here? So blinded by your own angst that you can't even acknowledge the obvious... Wow, just wow.
So hold on...I understand they invest, promote and Used to develop, but does that give them license to be the lying, thieving criminals they are? Seriously man..Even a Mobster can be generous...Doesn't negate the bad deeds Chris. Let's be honest here..
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23rd February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearOnTheGo View Post
And so using that logic how is Spotify a new and better model?

Pick a lie and stick to it already.
Where did I say it was a new and better model? I said I enjoy the convenience of it from a consumer standpoint, no doubt


Where am I lying? I'm stating my position, that's all.
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23rd February 2012
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there are great people and evil bastards in all levels and in all facets of this business, new model or old.

i don't see much transparency from anyone handling the tough math. not spotify, or big labels, or PROs for that matter.
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by sventvkg View Post
You're a label guy right?
Really?
I've never been signed to a record label. I had my publishing with EMI for a while.
I've worked with dozens of independents and self releasers.
Having worked with independents and major label acts, I've seen a lot of benefits of being with a major label, and few of the negatives claimed by biased individuals like you.
No, I'm not 'a label guy', I'm a calling a spade a spade guy. And the record industry is made up of thousands of labels with thousands of different agendas.
If you don't understand that little reality, you shouldn't be posting like you do.
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by sventvkg View Post
does that give them license to be the lying, thieving criminals they are?
Seriously man, you are waaaay out of line.
It's like saying restaurants are lying, thieving criminals. Or supermarkets.
You can claim a specific label is a bad one, or maybe a handful of labels, but talking about 'labels' as a collective is just pure dumb.
Nonesuch lying, thieving criminals? Rhino, Mute, Warp, ECM, Blue Note???
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23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Really?
I've never been signed to a record label. I had my publishing with EMI for a while.
I've worked with dozens of independents and self releasers.
Having worked with independents and major label acts, I've seen a lot of benefits of being with a major label, and few of the negatives claimed by biased individuals like you.
No, I'm not 'a label guy', I'm a calling a spade a spade guy. And the record industry is made up of thousands of labels with thousands of different agendas.
If you don't understand that little reality, you shouldn't be posting like you do.
Yea buddy...I Understand..When I speak of Labels I'm not including indies. I'm ONLY speaking of the majors...Indies aren't on my radar or my agenda. I hope that clarifies my position on the matter.
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23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
so what? it's an accounting and contract dispute, which means he'll get a settlement and get PAID.

where are the contracts with the pirate bay to dispute?

I seriously don't get this... you think labels are bad because they give artists contracts and accountings that can be disputed and resolved...

but pirates are good because they take everything, pay nothing, and there's nothing to dispute or resolve? F'n seriously?



explain to me again how piracy is better? you have a very interesting way of looking at the world...
dude , the pirates are criminals . there supposed to act like criminals . the labels are supposed to be legitimate legal businesses yet act like criminals

your justification of record labels criminal behaviour is that pirates are worse criminals!?!

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23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by sventvkg View Post
Yea buddy...I Understand..When I speak of Labels I'm not including indies. I'm ONLY speaking of the majors...Indies aren't on my radar or my agenda. I hope that clarifies my position on the matter.
Well there are a lot more non-major labels than majors.
So when you talk about 'the labels' getting payback from piracy, why don't you qualify it to the few labels you can prove have endemic criminality.
And I highly doubt you can prove that either.
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23rd February 2012
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dude , the pirates are criminals . there supposed to act like criminals . the labels are supposed to be legitimate legal businesses yet act like criminals

your justification of record labels criminal behaviour is that pirates are worse criminals!?!

Again....
Can you be more specific, rather than lazily grouping together an industry, like grouping together chemists or restaurants.
Secondly..... where is this very easy to see criminality. Why are most artists striving for a record deal, and resigning.
Don't tell me I know... you and Sventvkg are highly educated, street-smart dudes, and everyone else who ever signed a major deal was a dunce.

Everyone has contract disputes.... even nurses, pilots and builders.
That's what contracts are for. To safeguard your rights, and they safeguard artists rights too.
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Well there are a lot more non-major labels than majors.
So when you talk about 'the labels' getting payback from piracy, why don't you qualify it to the few labels you can prove have endemic criminality.
And I highly doubt you can prove that either.
Well, when you've been in this biz 24 years things becoming common knowledge and you DAMN well know what I'm talking about and you DAMN well know it's true. 1000's upon 1000's of instances of criminality on the part of major lables...you defending them is becoming farcical and I wish you were here in Nashville because I would tell you this to your face with a room full of songwriters that I PERSONALLY KNOW who have been ****ed by them..

Also, I don't appreciate your condescending remarks buddy. Especially from someone who thinks he has more experience, intelligence and knowledge of the business (Which you very well may have, but Our mileage varies). I don't like your tone frankly. Just another self-inflated know it all.

It's a shame you can't see past your over zealous stance on this subject because you have some other very insightful, relevant things to add. But on this subject, I don't agree, can't agree and will never agree...Based on MY experience. However, I'm glad you've had such a good experience and have never heard the horror stories and seen the effects of the criminality of Major lables that I have..Oh, I know they have done good as well, but it doesn't erase all the bad they've done over and over to so many...
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23rd February 2012
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I guess everyone's experience will differ. I've had some bad label experiences, but that was more me being ignorant than anything else. Just like in any other business dealing, if you don't have your clever hat on before getting into things, you are going to get burnt. Labels are another business, they aren't rabid dogs chewing on dangling parts all the time; they want to make money - they make money, you make money.. I think the best way to avoid any problems, is get thigns checked over by a legitimate good music lawyer beforehand.

OP, you seem to of had some bad experiences, sorry. Though on the flipside, you can't generalize. Generalization is a bad thing, in any scenerio.
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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I guess everyone's experience will differ. I've had some bad label experiences, but that was more me being ignorant than anything else. Just like in any other business dealing, if you don't have your clever hat on before getting into things, you are going to get burnt. Labels are another business, they aren't rabid dogs chewing on dangling parts all the time; they want to make money - they make money, you make money.. I think the best way to avoid any problems, is get thigns checked over by a legitimate good music lawyer beforehand.

OP, you seem to of had some bad experiences, sorry. Though on the flipside, you can't generalize. Generalization is a bad thing, in any scenerio.
You're right. Fair Enough.
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23rd February 2012
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Well, when you've been in this biz 24 years things becoming common knowledge and you DAMN well know what I'm talking about and you DAMN well know it's true. 1000's upon 1000's of instances of criminality on the part of major lables...you defending them is becoming farcical and I wish you were here in Nashville because I would tell you this to your face with a room full of songwriters that I PERSONALLY KNOW who have been ****ed by them..

Also, I don't appreciate your condescending remarks buddy. Especially from someone who thinks he has more experience, intelligence and knowledge of the business (Which you very well may have, but Our mileage varies). I don't like your tone frankly. Just another self-inflated know it all.

It's a shame you can't see past your over zealous stance on this subject because you have some other very insightful, relevant things to add. But on this subject, I don't agree, can't agree and will never agree...Based on MY experience. However, I'm glad you've had such a good experience and have never heard the horror stories and seen the effects of the criminality of Major lables that I have..Oh, I know they have done good as well, but it doesn't erase all the bad they've done over and over to so many...
Wow...
...just wow...
Ever look in a mirror?
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23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
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Originally Posted by tvsky View Post
dude , the pirates are criminals . there supposed to act like criminals . the labels are supposed to be legitimate legal businesses yet act like criminals

your justification of record labels criminal behaviour is that pirates are worse criminals!?!

I've got two words for you, listen up: Contract Dispute

I've got two more words for you: Accounting Dispute.

Explain to me how accounting and contractual disputes between Business Partners is anything at all like Piracy?

When there are contracts and accounting to dispute with The Pirate Bay, let me know... You are waaaaaaaay out of water my friend.

As has been said Captial / EMI has PAID Kenny MILLIONS, TENS OF MILLIONS if not more and invested in his career through marketing, promotion and countless other ways... and all your focused on is a customary ACCOUNTING and CONTRACT dispute... No wonder the labels wouldn't have you... there's no helping someone with such a profound lack of understanding... and this happens IN EVERY BUSINESS it just doesn't make headlines because the parties are not famous...

So how much is Kenny making from Piracy again? And do you really think the next Kenny Rogers could be developed under the new model? Are you the next Kenny Rogers as the poster boy for the new model? Really? Seriously? C'mon dude... how about coming back to Planet Earth...

You are one of those guys who takes great pride in having 100% of nothing versus X% of millions... guess who's better off in the end...
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