Google+ Hangouts = The Future for Artists ?

[ScumBum]

Check this video out . This artist , Daria Musk , played live shows on Google+ Hangouts to an audience of 200,000 around the world ! Thats a pretty big turn out for a live show !! Is no more touring in the future ?

[ScumBum]

Shes also doing a Vocal Clinic , live this Friday , with Mark Baxter (vocal coach) . I just signed up to watch this .

[GeorgeHayduke]

If you don't like to/can't go to actual concerts, sure. But I can't see it as any kind substitute for a live show, in any conceiveable way. It's just live TV on the internetz, and the sound will suck. The technoloy has been available for years, but you do have a point though, in that when Google does something, it might have the backing needed to take off and become used by regular folks.

[flatfinger]

Sure it's the future ;


as long as it's free

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

Check this video out . This artist , Daria Musk , played live shows on Google+ Hangouts to an audience of 200,000 around the world ! Thats a pretty big turn out for a live show !! Is no more touring in the future ?

Damn, she is annoying. I couldn't get past her singing parts of her talk. The second time she started singing what she was saying, I had to quit. I mean, geez.


But I'll have to check out Hangouts some more, I guess.

Honestly, I was really excited by G+ -- until I finally got a membership going there during the beta. Then I started having doubts. And when few of my otherwise cyber-engaged online and 3DW friends joined up -- and virtually none of those who did get accounts actually ended up using them, it started looking a lot more like Google Wave. (Yes, which I also excitedly joined... and then largely forgot about when no virtually one else joined.)

I used to be a big Google fanboi, but, I have to say, over the years, I have been disappointed again and again by their attempts to extend themselves beyond their very successful search, mail,* and, of course, the Android OS. (And, yes, of course, I turned in my BB for a free Android first chance I got. I do love my Android.)

Anyhow, I must say I do really like the idea of live, online concerts, conferences and the like, and that was one of the Skype features (now abandoned) that I was pretty interested in. (Unfortunately, the Skype audio processing, while sounding great on spoken word, really messes with acoustic guitar.)

I guess I'll drag my sorry backside over to my all-but-forgotten G+ account and see what I can find out...


UPDATE: so typical. I got to my G+ page. Search on Hangouts. Get page that says 'Hangouts' at the top with a menu just below that with three options: "Everything," "From Everyone," and "From Everywhere." I click on 'Everything,' get a drop down menu with "People and Pages," "Google+ Posts," "Sparks," and "Hangouts." I then click on 'hangouts' and get nothing listed but a message that reads -- no friggin' lie -- "Sorry, we couldn't find any matches. Try searching Everything."

Un-friggin-believable. Ain't nothing I like as much as being stuck in a circular navigation loop by some idiot bit-slinger who apparently has no idea how a decent user interface would work.


Whenever I use G+ I wonder to myself -- has anyone from Google ever tried to really use this stuff?


*I've had a Gmail account since you had to be invited, as well -- but for much of that time, I found it unusable except via my local POP3 client because of their longtime insistence that they were not going to add a conventional, chronological inbox view as an alternative to their 'conversation view' (which I find completely unintuitive and which makes it hard to find emails you know are there). I was gratified, at least, when Gmail developer Paul Buchheit suggested that not offering a conventional non-threaded view was Gmail's single biggest mistake. And more gratified much later when the top brass finally allowed such a view option to be added. (All I wanted was the option. I didn't want to force my 'antiquated' preference on anyone else. I just wanted something that made sense to my linear, look-for-it-where-you-found-it-last-time brain.)

[sameal]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Damn, she is annoying. I couldn't get past her singing parts of her talk. The second time she started singing what she was saying, I had to quit. I mean, geez.


But I'll have to check out Hangouts some more, I guess.

Honestly, I was really excited by G+ -- until I finally got a membership going there during the beta. Then I started having doubts. And when few of my otherwise cyber-engaged online and 3DW friends joined up -- and virtually none of those who did get accounts actually ended up using them, it started looking a lot more like Google Wave. (Yes, which I also excitedly joined... and then largely forgot about when no virtually one else joined.)

I used to be a big Google fanboi, but, I have to say, over the years, I have been disappointed again and again by their attempts to extend themselves beyond their very successful search, mail,* and, of course, the Android OS. (And, yes, of course, I turned in my BB for a free Android first chance I got. I do love my Android.)

Anyhow, I must say I do really like the idea of live, online concerts, conferences and the like, and that was one of the Skype features (now abandoned) that I was pretty interested in. (Unfortunately, the Skype audio processing, while sounding great on spoken word, really messes with acoustic guitar.)

I guess I'll drag my sorry backside over to my all-but-forgotten G+ account and see what I can find out...


*I've had a Gmail account since you had to be invited, as well -- but for much of that time, I found it unusable except via my local POP3 client because of their longtime insistence that they were not going to add a conventional, chronological inbox view as an alternative to their 'conversation view' (which I find completely unintuitive and which makes it hard to find emails you know are there). I was gratified, at least, when Gmail developer Paul Buchheit suggested that not offering a conventional non-threaded view was Gmail's single biggest mistake. And more gratified much later when the top brass finally allowed such a view option to be added. (All I wanted was the option. (I didn't want to force my 'antiquated' preference on anyone else. I just wanted something that made sense to my linear, look-for-it-where-you-found-it-last-time brain.)

+23458989.1.10 she's rather annoying. and this seems very paid for.

google plus, for me, totally useless. maybe she found a way to make it work for her, and that would be wonderful, but for me largely it's hoping onto a wave of already dead social networking sites.

I'm personally sick to death of the business side of music and well, all the social networking sites and all the crap so maybe my view is one sided.

me personally? I'm done. i just want to play some shows at some crappy venues, get a few hand claps of pity, drink a few and go home to my devices to crank out another pile of unlistenable music. sick to death of the big business, and even the self righteous small business in music.

even the small labels have there noses in the air. f%$k 'em all.

[sameal]

also don't mistake me for someone who has been in the big business of audio. there's no place in such things for me. i can't even get into the no business of audio. so take that for what it is.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by sameal

+23458989.1.10 she's rather annoying. and this seems very paid for.

google plus, for me, totally useless. maybe she found a way to make it work for her, and that would be wonderful, but for me largely it's hoping onto a wave of already dead social networking sites.

I'm personally sick to death of the business side of music and well, all the social networking sites and all the crap so maybe my view is one sided.

me personally? I'm done. i just want to play some shows at some crappy venues, get a few hand claps of pity, drink a few and go home to my devices to crank out another pile of unlistenable music. sick to death of the big business, and even the self righteous small business in music.

even the small labels have there noses in the air. f%$k 'em all.

Uh oh... I'm always worried when I'm not the most cynical, bitter guy in the room.


Seriously, though, my view of the music biz has been extremely jaded since before I ever got directly involved with it. So I made some rules for myself when I started engineering professionally: I was in the music biz primarily to be a service provider -- since it was clear that they usually get paid (a few small labels notwithstanding) -- unlike musicians.

But because I also am a songwriter and musician, I made some other rules: I wouldn't sign over any publishing, I wouldn't lock into any deals that could lock up my work, and I wouldn't give a dime to any of the vampires who lurk around the biz. (No, my 'bitterness' if that's what it is, comes strictly from watching friends and clients getting dicked around by labels, publishers, and managers.) Basically, I decided that I would try, as a musician, to have as little to do with the music biz as humanly possible, even as I continued to take work as a freelance RE and later as a project studio owner.


Anyhow, as disappointed as I may be in G+, I have to say I'm definitely glad for the various social media sites we have -- and I'm using the term broadly here to include things like YouTube and music distro/sales sites like ReverbNation and Bandcamp, as well as your Facebooks, etc. (MySpace... well, I always hated MySpace, even though I was, of course, on there pretty early, in winter 2004. But it was so hatable in ways that other sites/services have never even come close to. Of course, if you like being spammed by Russian hookers... )

But, yeah, I'm glad to have this stuff. I definitely do post my music occasionally to my FB page -- although I'm much more likely to post political news and such, no doubt causing most of my FB 'friends' to put me on ignore.

[artbeat77]

It's a nice idea, but can the community experience (and, dare I say, one of the primary reasons for going to a concert) at 10:00 of the video be approximated on a laptop?

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by artbeat77

It's a nice idea, but can the community experience (and, dare I say, one of the primary reasons for going to a concert) at 10:00 of the video be approximated on a laptop?

You mean a cluster of shills from Googleplex jumping up and starting clapping on cue?


Actually, for a while around 2000, I was getting 'together' with a small group of people I knew from the old Mp3.com and we were having online open mics. I can't remember the name of the internet telephony-oriented service we used -- their 'conferences' only allowed one live 'mic' at a time -- which actually kind of worked out -- so we'd 'pass the mic' in between songs. While you were playing, it was kind of odd -- but, really, not that much odder than playing a brightly lit stage where you can't see the audience at all.

There was a chat window where people would interact via text chat -- and, more than a few times, try to crack up the guy or gal singing.

And, actually, one of my online pals from another recording/music site does semi-regular video concerts from his music room and they're nice fun. Communication is primarily via text chat but it's got a nice, realtime party vibe often as not. Actually, in fact, I sometimes listen to an online punk rock 'radio' show from a guy who goes by the name of StigStench, and they have a similar dynamic. He often has phone guests from various original or second wave punk bands, and it's kind of nice because you find yourself 'hanging out' with folks from bands you used to watch 30 years ago...

[ScumBum]

I know nothing beats live shows .......but , if your a local band with no label support , no money , can't tour , you could broadcast shows from your house , or local clubs , like she did and get fans from all over the world .

Lets say you have a house party , set up in the living room to look like a show , have a few friends over as the audience and broadcast live on the internet , pretty much for free , to people all over the world . That crazy exposure for your band .

How many bands are able to go on international tours ? Its pretty expensive traveling . This way you get some international fans , who knows , if you get enough fans in one area you could book a show there .

200,000 people have now heard her perform and know about her music from one performance . Thats pretty crazy!



Its like your own live TV channel for your band .

[chrisso]

Where does the 200,000 figure come from and how is it broken down?
Could 100,000 people have watched it twice?
If I followed your link and bailed after one minute have I become the 200,001 member of the audience?

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by ScumBum

I know nothing beats live shows .......but , if your a local band with no label support , no money , can't tour , you could broadcast shows from your house , or local clubs , like she did and get fans from all over the world .

Lets say you have a house party , set up in the living room to look like a show , have a few friends over as the audience and broadcast live on the internet , pretty much for free , to people all over the world . That crazy exposure for your band .

How many bands are able to go on international tours ? Its pretty expensive traveling . This way you get some international fans , who knows , if you get enough fans in one area you could book a show there .

200,000 people have now heard her perform and know about her music from one performance . Thats pretty crazy!



Its like your own live TV channel for your band .

I like the concept, as I'm sure came across above. And I think it could be quite fun.

But, let's face it, you're only going to have an audience if you can drive people to your online show -- at the right time. One thing I've found is that getting people to a certain URL at a certain time is like herding cats. People on the web often exist in a timeless space.

Which is why having video performances folks can watch on demand is so important.


But, for sure, it's fun to see someone winging it, in real time. And, you know, the fact you can interact in some fashion with the entertainer is nice, for sure.

But, unless you get a writeup from someone with a big audience -- or you embark on a paid advertising/promo campaign -- it's probably going to be plenty hard to get those eyeballs to the right place at the right time.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Where does the 200,000 figure come from and how is it broken down?
Could 100,000 people have watched it twice?
If I followed your link and bailed after one minute have I become the 200,001 member of the audience?

I think we're talking about realtime show or shows.

It's perhaps worth noting that less than 3,000 people have seen that TED video -- and it's got the weight of Google and TED behind it.

I strongly suspect that if the young lady in question actually has had 200K people watch her live shows, that it was some sort of initiative from Google that drove the audience her way.

Most of the folks I know who have done live music and interview shows seem to have about 10 to 20 people in the audience -- and that often goes down to two or three at times. And they had to do a lot of promo just to get that.

[initialsBB]

can I buy beer on google+?

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Where does the 200,000 figure come from and how is it broken down?
Could 100,000 people have watched it twice?
If I followed your link and bailed after one minute have I become the 200,001 member of the audience?

Congratulations you were the lucky 200,001 viewer !!!!!!!!

Heres your prize a stuffed Jackalope ,








Through Google+ and youtube live stream ?? I think is how they got the numbers .

[ScumBum]

Originally Posted by theblue1

I like the concept, as I'm sure came across above. And I think it could be quite fun.

But, let's face it, you're only going to have an audience if you can drive people to your online show -- at the right time. One thing I've found is that getting people to a certain URL at a certain time is like herding cats. People on the web often exist in a timeless space.

Which is why having video performances folks can watch on demand is so important.


But, for sure, it's fun to see someone winging it, in real time. And, you know, the fact you can interact in some fashion with the entertainer is nice, for sure.

But, unless you get a writeup from someone with a big audience -- or you embark on a paid advertising/promo campaign -- it's probably going to be plenty hard to get those eyeballs to the right place at the right time.

I know , people today live an "On Demand" life . Once DVRs came out , you can say good bye to watching things live .

[Happy Musicfan]

If the virtual concert is the way of the future, it'd be nice if they put the whole mix through a nice hall (CSR) reverb set about 15% wet..... and mixed in some crowd noise. Get the lighting atmosphere right too (darkened room, small overhead lights above the band). For the win !

[artbeat77]

Originally Posted by theblue1

You mean a cluster of shills from Googleplex jumping up and starting clapping on cue?

Sure, this example is weak. In the bigger picture, I believe I would rather have the experience of seeing, say, the Foo Fighters in person with 30,000+ legitimately enthusiastic fans vs. alone on a laptop via a Google Hangout. I don't think I'm alone on this.

[razorboy]

I don't use Google.

[NotchontheRocks]

Have you ever watched a YouTube video of a live performance and felt like you'd just been to a live show? The answer is no, which happens to also be the answer to the thread's question.

[sameal]

Originally Posted by theblue1

Uh oh... I'm always worried when I'm not the most cynical, bitter guy in the room.

that's my game. we should start a club or something. blog like the cool kids.

i luckily didn't even get a chance to be ripped off, so for that much i can say i dodged the bullet.

the sea of lost musicians, producers and small time labels has thwarted me from even achieving a release that 100 copies of which rotted in my basement.

so i guess, in short, i have nothing to complain about really.

[Barfunkel]

I just wonder...

The record selling business is dead (or at least smells like it).

And gigging + merch was supposedly the future of professional artists.

And now they're gigging for free (I assume the audience didn't have to pay to see the concert) too?

So where does the profit come from? Just the T-shirts?

Doing free online gigs seems like a commercial suicide to me, unless the artist can get a major cut of the advertisement.

[NotchontheRocks]

Originally Posted by Barfunkel

I just wonder...

The record selling business is dead (or at least smells like it).

And gigging + merch was supposedly the future of professional artists.

And now they're gigging for free (I assume the audience didn't have to pay to see the concert) too?

So where does the profit come from? Just the T-shirts?

Doing free online gigs seems like a commercial suicide to me, unless the artist can get a major cut of the advertisement.

That's currently part of the debate going on in the disaster of a thread called "Can SOPA save the music industry?" But I won't even get into that.

Bottom line is video streams cannot replace live shows. Refer to my previous post. I would expect that the amount of live performances streamed across the internet will increase, but I don't see how that can replace the thrill of a live show and the presence of hundreds (or thousands) of excited fans. Plus, how many artists want to perform in front of a camera instead of a pumped up crowd?

[GearBit]

Unless you are already being promoted by a major, it would seem that the only way to get the kids to go to shows consistently is to have a "scene" of some sort going on around the shows. If past "scenes" (Manchester, rave, 60s, Oz pub rock etc..) are anything to go by, that scene must contain sexual partner possibilities and drugs/alcohol to go with the music. Considering that the scene right now IS the internet and being handed drugs/alcohol or making out with someone from the opposite sex is impossible on the internet, no, I don't see much future for emerging artists in online gigs.

[ScumBum]

That live vocal clinic is coming on in 5 minutes , if anyone is interested , I think a live feed is gonna be on her page , https://plus.google.com/u/0/100974258168375166691/posts

[Beat Poet]

I think hangouts will just become part of the promotional treadmill. Say like in the past you had private gigs or rehearsals filmed for a DVD that was included with the album - these will take the place of that.

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Barfunkel

I just wonder...

The record selling business is dead (or at least smells like it).

And gigging + merch was supposedly the future of professional artists.

And now they're gigging for free (I assume the audience didn't have to pay to see the concert) too?

So where does the profit come from? Just the T-shirts?

Doing free online gigs seems like a commercial suicide to me, unless the artist can get a major cut of the advertisement.

You can't sell things that people don't want and you can't get people to want something unless they know it exists.

A primary rationale for giving things away is to hopefully increase brand awareness and pave the way for enough familiarity and positive brand identification to generate a little demand.

It's hard enough to get people to go to the trouble of clicking a link to get a free listen or download. People not only often don't want your music for free -- they don't want to be annoyed with you trying to give it to them.

PS... with regard to buying band swag? Does anyone really do this besides 14 year old girls and teenage boys from the midwest? I think that went out with baseball jerseys.

[Liquid360]

Originally Posted by NotchontheRocks

Have you ever watched a YouTube video of a live performance and felt like you'd just been to a live show? The answer is no, which happens to also be the answer to the thread's question.

Exactly.