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#61
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #61
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The authorities have to keep up a presence and show that the owners of these sites aren't immune though. Then again, I thought Pirate Bay had been put out of action, yet it's still up?
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#62
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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^ I agree, but we also need a solution...
#63
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claend View Post
Since the industry lost the train a looong time ago, elected governments should empower new technologies making sure the authors get a fair payment for their work. It's that simple, we are in 2012 already...
Ok, how ? How ?

Please point to an available and proven solution.
The same "extremely bright geniuses " people and corporations behind the technology that is ripping content creators work, seem to be COMPLETELY UNABLE of coming with a technological solution to solve this problem.

We are in 2012 now, and still not one of these bright minds has been able to offer a solution to artists.

Isn't it extremely odd ?

Or maybe, they can't come up with a solution, because they don't want to.

The money that will be made by content aggregators ( from Google to Pirate Bay ) , once all content creators surrender and give up their copyright , is of a magnitude of order higher than the money they make right now, with all these pesky artists claiming their dues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claend View Post

Supposedly, it's governments duty to employ resources towards "economical" solutions, especially in the current econ. climate. And this one is just smoke IMO and I'm sure there are more hidden interests than we could ever grasp.
So the tech "geniuses" aren't able to come up with a solution, and you expect the government to come up with one ? Where will the government find the tech genius that will work against the interest of Google and co ?
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#64
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #64
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lol: Downfall: Photos Of MegaUpload Founder’s Valuable Cars Getting Seized | TechCrunch

Now that i've seen the austerity and the extreme poverty of MegaUpload's boss lifestyle, and his dedication to freedom and justice, i feel very happy that my work contributed to his wellness. I shall produce more music and work harder to serve him.
He definitely deserve that Maserati.
Artists only deserve to work as slaves for Mr Kim Schmitz.
Anonymous are great great intellectual minds.

I'm out of here.
#65
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
Ok, how ? How ?

Please point to an available and proven solution.
What I DO know is that this line of thinking doesn't take us anywhere.

Proven solutions? You gotta be joking...

I'll tell you (for the 3rd or 4th time on this thread) what seems IMO the easiest way to please both worlds (creators and consumers)

REGULATED high quality streaming services monitored to pay the rights holders fairly.

Isn't it possible? There's a pretty solid demand for that service... Piracy went down a huge margin in Spain when Spotify appeared. That's pretty much proved, and Spain is a really hard market to begin with!. Now, we need a legal resolution which monitorizes the income of this ent and makes sure the creators got paid correspondently.

I'm pretty sure Spotify is getting tones of money from its subscribers (they get from me). I'd say they should turn down the free memberships and, if there's not enough money, share a part of the AD revenue with the creators too.

Let me add that obviously I'm not a genius... But why on earth all econ activities have more or less adapted to the internet era and muisic can't? Now that creators could get rid of the cost of distribution should be easier, it sounds like plain nonsense to me...


BTW, what do you have to offer despite your rants? Go back to sell plastic? Good look with it, I have a hard time figuring that as a mere possibility. People wants tones of music everywhere, ready and instantly accesible... and free if there's nothing noticeably better or ditinctive. Let's regulate that model and see what can offer... That's my take on it.

Cheers
#66
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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See, this is just how a big part of the system seems to work this days my friend. I can tell you is probably worst with a lot of Spanish Politicians (both main parites), and they get reelected... Don't get me started with real state bubbles, credit rating agencies, IMF policies, tax heavens and wars, right?

BTW, the old model Godfather in Spain: SGAE (RIAA) is being prosecuted for robbing from artists a bigger amount than piracy has ever in my country... It's all over internet, do a search if you find it interesting. You know what? I'm afraid nothing's gonna happen to them either.
#67
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claend View Post
What I DO know is that this line of thinking doesn't take us anywhere.

Proven solutions? You gotta be joking...

I'll tell you (for the 3rd or 4th time on this thread) what seems IMO the easiest way to please both worlds (creators and consumers)

REGULATED high quality streaming services monitored to pay the rights holders fairly.

Isn't it possible? There's a pretty solid demand for that service... Piracy went down a huge margin in Spain when Spotify appeared. That's pretty much proved, and Spain is a really hard market to begin with!. Now, we need a legal resolution which monitorizes the income of this ent and makes sure the creators got paid correspondently.

I'm pretty sure Spotify is getting tones of money from its subscribers (they get from me). I'd say they should turn down the free memberships and, if there's not enough money, share a part of the AD revenue with the creators too.

Let me add that obviously I'm not a genius... But why on earth all econ activities have more or less adapted to the internet era and muisic can't? Now that creators could get rid of the cost of distribution should be easier, it sounds like plain nonsense to me...


BTW, what do you have to offer despite your rants? Go back to sell plastic? Good look with it, I have a hard time figuring that as a mere possibility. People wants tones of music everywhere, ready and instantly accesible... and free if there's nothing noticeably better or ditinctive. Let's regulate that model and see what can offer... That's my take on it.

Cheers
There is already streaming services. I don't want countries mandating pay amounts, it's called a business model. The problem is you can not compete with free or thievery.

You can not say what is an appropriate form of distribution when you can just take what you want and the owners have no say.

No one is wanting to go back to selling cds, how it was before. Its about finding an appropriate means of distribution. The thing is no one is going to discover this method of distribution, when the alternative to others is free (thievery). This method would happen naturally in a normal economic sense. The last thing I would want is the government setting payout amounts.

How it works is, if streaming was the answer, copyright owners would pull content from spotify, which has already happened, if they feel they are not getting their fair pay. Then a new service would pop up and offer copyright owners more, hence gaining more content and more users. You know economics 101.

Problem is, how things are now, this process will never take the natural route, because the content is unnaturally free (stolen).
#68
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
The problem is you can not compete with free or thievery.
OOps. Game over. We should all just pack it in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
No one is wanting to go back to selling cds, how it was before.
Totally agreed, no way to go back anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
Problem is, how things are now, this process will never take the natural route, because the content is unnaturally free (stolen).
Actually, free is easy to compete with. You differentiate your product from the free version (eg. better quality, no fakes, no virus or malware). Ease of use is one key. Another is to make it personal again. Trade on the twitter effect: followers tend to feel a personal connection. Most people do not shoplift, especially not from smaller stores where they know you.

Make paying easier than stealing. It could be a royalty thing based on the club model via subscription, pay when you download, or one of any number of models. As long as it's fair to writers & performers everybody wins.
#69
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yosefTux View Post
OOps. Game over. We should all just pack it in.



Totally agreed, no way to go back anyway.



Actually, free is easy to compete with. You differentiate your product from the free version (eg. better quality, no fakes, no virus or malware). Ease of use is one key. Another is to make it personal again. Trade on the twitter effect: followers tend to feel a personal connection. Most people do not shoplift, especially not from smaller stores where they know you.

Make paying easier than stealing. It could be a royalty thing based on the club model via subscription, pay when you download, or one of any number of models. As long as it's fair to writers & performers everybody wins.
All of the above has been beaten and tried million times over. Should the owners not have a say how they would like to deliver and present their "product." With piracy (thievery) this is not an option.
#70
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #70
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This is the way i see it,

megaupload is a way for people to share data over the internet. They remove any copyrighted content that is reported, just like youtube and portray themself as a legal site, unlike the piratebay. When i was at college a few years back i used it (as well as other students) to upload their own music or project song files (reason, cubase ect) so the tutors could assess thier work, you couldnt email a song because of the size of the data. If i want to collaborate with my mate who lives in england (am in scotland) we use these sites to send files back and forth. People do use it for legitimate reasons.

so...what makes megaupload any different from other sites like youtube? same problem exists there, people upload illegal copyrighted content, yet people do use it legitimatly. The right thing to do is arrest the people who put the content up there, not the people who own the websites. This is just wrong, If they do the same thing to all these sites, people who want to get thier content (that they own the rights to) on to the internet, be it music or whatever - wont be able to, unless they start there own sites, hosting thier own music, this cost money to do. People will have less of a choice of music to legally listen to for free and people will have a harder time to promote thier music without spending money.

I think piracy is wrong but this is worse. The big record labels/film companys (and i think its safe to say that its them thats put pressure on the authoritys to take down megaupload) have lost all my sympathy. I hope they crash and burn now.

You dont arrest the landlord of the tennant that is dealing drugs without his knowlege.
#71
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morne View Post
so...what makes megaupload any different from other sites like youtube? .
when close to 90% of your content is made of copyrighted files AND you're charging for access AND your internal mail proves that you're doing it on purpose AND you're making a fortune out of this , then chances are extremely high that this not just an accident.
#72
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yosefTux View Post
Actually, free is easy to compete with. You differentiate your product from the free version (eg. better quality, no fakes, no virus or malware).
Which then just gets posted. You cannot differentiate your product from free when any version of your product you create becomes free. That's pretty basic logic.
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#73
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morne View Post
This is the way i see it,

megaupload is a way for people to share data over the internet. They remove any copyrighted content that is reported, just like youtube and portray themself as a legal site
Big problem is I don't think they did.

Quote:
The right thing to do is arrest the people who put the content up there, not the people who own the websites.
When we did that, the culprits were found guilty and fined thousands of dollars, the industry was slammed for criminalising single mothers and teenagers.
This is the problem. Turkey's don't vote for Christmas, and music consumers obviously wont vote to pay for music again .
No matter what you do as a music industry you are told you are doing the wrong thing.
Taking down the piracy warlords (Kim Dotcom) = wrong.
Taking down the actual people who fileshare = wrong.
Legislating in US law = wrong.
And for many -
Charging a fee for recorded music = wrong.
Copyright = wrong.

I mean ya gotts to throw us a bone here!

Quote:
The big record labels/film companys (and i think its safe to say that its them thats put pressure on the authoritys to take down megaupload) have lost all my sympathy. I hope they crash and burn now.
Consistently and conveniently people use the buzz words 'big record labels'.
But independent labels and independent musicians are full square against music pirates and sites like Megaupload and Pirate Bay.
So instead of losing your sympathy, what do you suggest ordinary musicians and labels do???
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#74
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Consistently and conveniently people use the buzz words 'big record labels'.
But independent labels and independent musicians are full square against music pirates and sites like Megaupload and Pirate Bay.
So instead of losing your sympathy, what do you suggest ordinary musicians and labels do???

+1

Also generally the smaller guys were the most hurt and now close to extinct due to piracy. I love music and this is why it's such an important subject and why I support anti piracy legislation.
#75
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Jin View Post
Who do you think are the people out there downloading music? It's the same people that buy music and also the same people that you're marketing to. Demonizing the target audience that you depend on by calling them a bunch of thieves generally doesn't get you very far nor does it encourage them to support you.

That much just seems like common sense to me...
The idea that the thieves are buying lots of music after they test-drive it is a pretext, as are all excuses for ripping off music. People do it because they are fundamentally cheap and dishonest.

At least bank-robbers don't eat up bandwidth trying to justify their gig.
#76
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorboy View Post
The idea that the thieves are buying lots of music after they test-drive it is a pretext, as are all excuses for ripping off music. People do it because they are fundamentally cheap and dishonest.

At least bank-robbers don't eat up bandwidth trying to justify their gig.
+1

About time we start calling a thief a thief!!
#77
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorboy View Post
The idea that the thieves are buying lots of music after they test-drive it is a pretext, as are all excuses for ripping off music.
Indeed , with piracy being so widespread and the norm now, if this theory was true , sales should be shooting thru the roof. Record companies would be running everywhere and screaming "Please people, do pirate more, MORE !"
#78
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphster View Post
Like it or not, illegal downloaders of music are this industries biggest consumers. They are consumers, they are customers and whether they pay for it or not is utterly irrelevant.

YouTube is a business where it's entire customer base don't pay a penny for its product.
You have been fooled. Youtube is a business that sells an audience to advertisers. Here's a life lesson for 'ya: If you're not paying for the service, you are the product being sold.

You are not Youtube's customer. You are not Google's customer. You are the product Google sells to other people to make it's money.
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#79
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman View Post
lol: Downfall: Photos Of MegaUpload Founder’s Valuable Cars Getting Seized | TechCrunch

Now that i've seen the austerity and the extreme poverty of MegaUpload's boss lifestyle, and his dedication to freedom and justice, i feel very happy that my work contributed to his wellness. I shall produce more music and work harder to serve him.
He definitely deserve that Maserati.
Artists only deserve to work as slaves for Mr Kim Schmitz.
Anonymous are great great intellectual minds.

I'm out of here.
Great point.

These guys are living higher than record company executives.

Shouldn't we now start stealing from them?

Shouldn't we get a Maserati?
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#80
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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Again, you all just don't get it do you? The Government are the criminals! THEY have been caught bringing in the drugs, they are running guns (fast and Furious) They are fighting illegal wars, they are anti-liberty...They have absolutely ZERO Credibility to pass judgement on anyone.
#81
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheebs Goat View Post

If you're not paying for the service, you are the product being sold.
Awesome!!!!!
#82
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demor View Post
Sure, in that case the "officials" just have to track them down aswell and make them close up shop..... Rince and repeat untill it is just to much trouble for the offenders to bother.

The argument : "They will just go elsewhere" as a defence for these type of people irritates the h€#&! out of me.
Except it's true...

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorboy View Post
The idea that the thieves are buying lots of music after they test-drive it is a pretext, as are all excuses for ripping off music. People do it because they are fundamentally cheap and dishonest.

At least bank-robbers don't eat up bandwidth trying to justify their gig.
The Swiss government recently did some studies finding that piracy doesn't affect how much one budgets for entertainment and in a lot of cases leads to more sales.

In other words, what everyone already knew.

My only issue with all this crap is why no one ever prosecutes google. It's a much better tool to find pirated stuff than any other website.
#83
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodnb View Post

The Swiss government recently did some studies finding that piracy doesn't affect how much one budgets for entertainment and in a lot of cases leads to more sales.
And as a consequence , sales were up ?
#84
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #84
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I distrust my government (American) as much as the next person. Shoot besides piracy, the other issue that bothers me the most is our 2 party system. I have NEVER voted democrat or republican (multiple decades of voting this way), yet am an avid voter. But that is besides the point.

Comparing this to the Patriot Act (absolutely garbage legislation), is silly and spreading fear mongering to me.

I have to trust the government (police officers) to prosecute anyone that breaks into my home and steals from me. I would like them to do the same for all my property. If you feel the punishment is too extreme, then please quote/link the part of the bill you are referring to, because to me it seems fair.

I feel people are being bamboozled by google and other tech companies. Granted the government is the first to do this, which made it easy for Google to pull off the same.
#85
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodnb View Post
The Swiss government recently did some studies finding that piracy doesn't affect how much one budgets for entertainment and in a lot of cases leads to more sales.
Uhhh... That's hardly the point. It doesn't help you, as the person who's stuff was stolen, if the person who stole it turned around and used it to buy something from one else (entertainment oriented.) It just means that those folks with unstealable products benefit from those who have stealable products, because those stealable products no longer count against the available budget.

Hence, as others as pointed out, that's why sales from the folks with the most stealable (and desirable) products are way down, not way up.
#86
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claend View Post
But oh really, why on earth FBI arrests people in New Zealand and other countries??...
I'm pretty disgusted with my country today. Apparently we're just America's bitch.
#87
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Big problem is I don't think they did.
just reading an artical about them removing the urls but keeping the content plus the internal mail they found, fair enough if they are accually participating in it directly then they deserve what they get

Just as long as its done purely on that basis, that they are actively involved in distrubuting pirated content - not on the basis that its someone else who put it up there without there knowlege (like what happens on youtube) because that means they could close down any sites that allows the public to upload content. Its not just pirates that sail those sea's lol. i dont know what the solution would be but I would hate to see people having no way of putting the music they create out there for free if they want to.
#88
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
... When we did that, the culprits were found guilty and fined thousands of dollars, the industry was slammed for criminalising single mothers and teenagers. ...
Someone not fully understanding the way their p2p client works is in a different class to someone deliberately uploading infringing content. In other words, Jammy Thomas would have received much less sympathy if she'd deliberately uploaded the tracks to Megaupload and posted the URLs on her blog or Myspace page, saying "here they are, come and get them".
#89
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick_Money View Post
... About time we start calling a thief a thief!!
... Since you're so keen on accurate labelling, it's also about time we start calling piracy copyright infringement.
#90
20th January 2012
Old 20th January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Hills View Post
... Since you're so keen on accurate labelling, it's also about time we start calling piracy copyright infringement.
or Theft!
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