The days of selling music are over.

[subby33]

I know this probably isn't news to anybody . . . but I've just been pondering things lately, and noticing a lot of things. And I've concluded . . . that in the future there will hardly be any music sales anymore. I dont think they will disappear completely, but I think they are very nearly dead for the most part.

The first issue is obviously the ability to steal music easily. Anybody can go online and find a song for free. The only real deterrent to this for people is #1 morals, and #2 people like me who prefer slightly better quality and consistency between tracks. I dont need super high quality, but I like a good product. But personally I think most people lack the morals to buy music that they want, and sound quality is a huge non issue for most people. I dont have real statistics but . . . I mean most people dont even care if a file is in 240p on youtube.

The i saw the second problem being sites like Pandora where you can basically select what song or artist you like, and listen to music for free. The drawback of course is you cant make your own playlists and have to deal with commercials. Of course, artists do get money from these streams, but as far as I read its to the tune of 0.0022 dollars per play ::rolls eyes::.

Well now . . . I think its just gotten worse. My friend introduced me to Spotify which I thought was pretty cool, but then someone else showed me Rdio which you can get on your iPhone and your iPad for only 5 dollars a month (that is total chump change). On these applications you can steam any album, any song you want at any time. And its very good quality for streaming. In fact, I'm happy to listen to the streaming quality on these applications as they sound just as good as an MP3 to my ears. The artists get very minimal money from this as well.

So . . . with all these options together . . . (sheesh I also forgot youtube and vevo which are huge for music) . . . is there any reason to buy anything? There really isn't. Artists and Labels really cant sustain whats going on from the way I see it. I mean . . . 5 dollars a month for instant streaming of practically any song on earth, and then you can steal it if you want a hardcopy for when you dont have an internet connection.

The future of music whether people like it or not seems to be "Practically Free".

Now, I see in the piracy forum and this forum a lot of people cringing and whining (justifiably) over lack of CD sales and music sales in general. How the music business is really in a bad state, and how there's a huge problem in sustaining what we already have. Music studios are shutting down and qualified engineers and producers are not in high demand like they used to be. Electronic artists these days pretty much make music on their home computer. Everythings getting cheaper and cheaper. I'm not saying studios will all die out, but they seem more niche than ever before.

So all this said.

People are fighting the piracy war . . . it really doesn't even seem worth it. Even if you do make laws and completely eliminated piracy . . . who cares anymore? You can stream anything you want in high quality for 5-10 dollars a month. And I see this trend as only getting more popular and more accessible.

So, my question is. Dont you think its about time to give up? I think the music business is clinging onto things that dont work anymore. And I know this will upset a lot of people on this board. There's a lot of talented qualified people here. But what I'm saying is . . . I think the battle is already lost . . . and it may be time to move on. I mean . . . I just dont see anyway to get back what the Vinyl and CD era gave.

Just thinking outloud.

[chrisso]

You're seeing it from a big city US perspective only.
Spotify isn't available in large parts of the world. Pandora is US only.
Internet speeds in large parts of even the developed world are too slow and erratic to offer perfect streaming 100% of the time.
If I want to hear my music whenever AND wherever I want I have to a) download it illegally, or b) own it legally.
As I'm a professional musician, I always download my music legally.

[Thefife]

We aren't quite there yet, but you are right. Recorded music will be free. Artists are so desperate for exposure that they are basically giving it away which allows the consumer to think music should be free. By the time all of the musicians have figured out that exposure is meaningless if it doesn't produce sales, it will be too late. Consumers won't be willing to pay for something they expect to be free.

I don't know what that will mean for music in the long run. It's easy to say that people will always create music because they love it. However, despite the fact that today I create music strictly for the love of it, I can't say that I would ever have gotten to where I am today if I had never dreamed of making it big.

[Quint]

Originally Posted by chrisso

You're seeing it from a big city US perspective only.
Spotify isn't available in large parts of the world. Pandora is US only.
Internet speeds in large parts of even the developed world are too slow and erratic to offer perfect streaming 100% of the time.
If I want to hear my music whenever AND wherever I want I have to a) download it illegally, or b) own it legally.
As I'm a professional musician, I always download my music legally.

I wouldn't disagree with your comments about varying relative internet speeds around the planet. However, the vast majority of people with the kind of disposable income necessary to pay for what music is actually worth also happen to live in those very countries where internet speed and streaming/piracy options make it so they don't have to pay what music is actually worth.

I've been a musician all of my life and I don't see a light at the end of the tunnel if you hope to ever make any kind of decent money off of record sales.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by Thefife

We aren't quite there yet, but you are right. Recorded music will be free. Artists are so desperate for exposure that they are basically giving it away which allows the consumer to think music should be free. By the time all of the musicians have figured out that exposure is meaningless if it doesn't produce sales, it will be too late. Consumers won't be willing to pay for something they expect to be free.

I don't know what that will mean for music in the long run.

it means you'll get this:
SoundClick - Free MP3 music download and much, much more.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Quint

I wouldn't disagree with your comments about varying relative internet speeds around the planet. However, the vast majority of people with the kind of disposable income necessary to pay for what music is actually worth also happen to live in those very countries where internet speed and streaming/piracy options make it so they don't have to pay what music is actually worth.

Piracy yes, streaming no.
Even a very affluent, small country like the UK has plenty of wi-fi black spots.
Pandora isn't available in the UK, and Spotify has only recently become available in the USA.
I think there is a long way to go before people stop 'owning' their music and just stream everything.

[Quint]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Piracy yes, streaming no.
Even a very affluent, small country like the UK has plenty of wi-fi black spots.
Pandora isn't available in the UK, and Spotify has only recently become available in the USA.
I think there is a long way to go before people stop 'owning' their music and just stream everything.

What I intended to add to my previous comment, and forgot, was that, at the current speed of internet proliferation, those "black spots" you mentioned are fast coming to a close. I don't think it's very far off at all. The internet speed necessary to stream everything, at least in any developed country, will, in my opinion, happen in the next decade. Maybe even in the next five years.

And again, the argument was earlier made about how the discussion was "city centric". That's also where the vast majority of people happen to live and where all of the cultural shifts take place first. So, even if "everybody" doesn't have that access, enough people will so as to make that point moot.

Saying that it hasn't happened yet doesn't change the fact that it will. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it. But it is what it is.

[subby33]

I'm don't think the music entertainment industry will be over. But music sales I think are going to be passé pretty soonish. Something else will have to sustain the industry. Not CDs or mp3 sales.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Quint

The internet speed necessary to stream everything, at least in any developed country, will, in my opinion, happen in the next decade. Maybe even in the next five years.

Well yes, five to ten years sounds possible, but then all that time more and more people are buying more and more wi-fi devices putting strain on the system. Internet infrastructure is actually a huge issue with governments like the US and UK ones.

And again, the argument was earlier made about how the discussion was "city centric". That's also where the vast majority of people happen to live and where all of the cultural shifts take place first.

So no one travels, and no one wants to listen to their music while they are traveling?

[Bob Olhsson]

I don't think it's nearly as bleak as the tech industry would have us believe as they try to get everybody to sign their life away for a pittance.

MP3s replace singles but not albums. I think the album of the future will look like today's $50-$100 box set and sell for just as much. Optical media clearly is going away soon but there's no reason a 12x12 album-book couldn't have a USB jack on it. The $15 CD album is the worst of both worlds and IMHO the biggest blunder the recording industry has ever made.

[subby33]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I don't think it's nearly as bleak as the tech industry would have us believe as they try to get everybody to sign their life away for a pittance.

MP3s replace singles but not albums. I think the album of the future will look like today's $50-$100 box set and sell for just as much. Optical media clearly is going away soon but there's no reason a 12x12 album-book couldn't have a USB jack on it. The $15 CD album is the worst of both worlds and IMHO the biggest blunder the recording industry has ever made.

I personally dont think people want to buy an album-book with a usb jack. That's marketing towards hardcore fans. I think streaming is where its going. Remember, you CAN download these songs to your mobile phone , iphone, ipad and listen to these songs offline. It's kind of a no brainer.

Mog is 320kps MP3 which is just fine for most people.
Rdio sound quality is crap but good interface.
Spotify overall just sucks to me, period.

[newdigitaluser]

gaga and bieber plus some others
may disagree

if you are good enough
in the area that people care about hearing
and market it well
then there are big bux

its more than music now
its tours, merch, albums, dls, cds, books, .....

[Soundseed]

Originally Posted by rack gear

it means you'll get this:
SoundClick - Free MP3 music download and much, much more.

And this:

sun behind the storm by robin adams on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Of course, without label marketing / promotion investment you don't have a cats chance in hell of finding any of his 3 albums, or ever see him gig in a venue near you. I'm sure there are plenty of other genuinely musically talented artists out there who could sell plenty of music in a normally functioning marketplace, but those days are gone. At least its there for those dedicated enough to search for, or stumble across these rare diamonds in the rough.

(Vested interest: he's my bro, and I produce)

-----------------------
Robin Adams on Bandcamp

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by subby33

...That's marketing towards hardcore fans...

Marketing to hardcore fans is what it has always been about!

Anybody who thinks they can sell an album to non-fans is having delusions of grandeur. Of course most tech executives have precisely that failing and endlessly project their own greed and appetite for hype onto the music industry.

[Michael E]

Music industry should offer a reasonably priced streaming service with subscription payment.
Available to the whole world, not only to the well developed countries.

Prices should be based on the average salary in each country.

[subby33]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Marketing to hardcore fans is what it has always been about!

Anybody who thinks they can sell an album to non-fans is having delusions of grandeur. Of course most tech executives have precisely that failing and endlessly project their own greed and appetite for hype onto the music industry.

Hmm. Interesting thought. Still not sure I 100% agree, but it is true that the idea of selling albums to non fans will no longer work. The CD era was basically built around forcing people to buy full albums for just a couple of songs they like. Is that what you're describing?

[narcoman]

MOR pop music sales are nearly over (not quite yet - 4 or 5 more years ).

Niche sales are UP big time. I run a jazz label as a sideline - we've had a tenfold increase in the last 5 years..... Pick you niches!! We market to over 30 year olds. Who wants MOR anyway? It's bollocks.... that was NEVER about music. MUSIC sales are as strong as ever. Pathetic half wit pap sales are down and good riddance to them. Now if we can just get rid of the 99% crap the home users are putting out......

[faun2500]

Originally Posted by subby33

Dont you think its about time to give up?

I just dont see anyway to get back what the Vinyl and CD era gave.

FU*king hell! Music isn't about money! It's a passion...

If I wanted money I would of been a plumber!

I received Broken Bells Vinyl through the post today, paid £10 for it and waited nearly a week. I was excited, when I got it I recorded it to wav straight away and compared it to the MP3 version (that I also have) and the vinyl IS better, although the mp3 is very well mastered too (dynamics)!!!

I spent about 5 hours listening and recording that vinyl today, while my children were begging me to play with them, THIS is what music is about.

Not Sales, not Status, not MONEY. It's a passion you cant get a way from...

But I do agree with pretty much everything you said - Music sales are dead!

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by faun2500

FU*king hell! Music isn't about money! It's a passion...

Errr....... if you are passionate about creativity, you'll want to earn money to support your creativity so you don't have to be a plumber 12 hours a day, and a musician for the remaining few hours you are awake.
No money coming in, no chance to exploit your talent and creativity in a passionate way.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by faun2500

FU*king hell! Music isn't about money! It's a passion...

If I wanted money I would of been a plumber!

pretty much what every hobbyist says who can't make it professionally...

[Dean Roddey]

I working at this fry station because I'm too passionate about music to make money from it.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by subby33

...The CD era was basically built around forcing people to buy full albums for just a couple of songs they like. Is that what you're describing?

No, that's more tech industry propaganda. The truth is that people refused to cross a mall to save a buck on a CD. If they really wanted it, they bought it. If not, they passed. Nobody in retail discounted CDs very much because they didn't need to. In fact many stores sold budget titles for as much as a dollar above list price.

Beware of "common wisdom" circulated on the internet. A lot of it isn't true and is being circulated by people having an agenda to manipulate public opinion for their personal financial benefit.

[erikdrink]

In a year I spend thousands of $ on vinyls and I'm proud of it

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

No, that's more tech industry propaganda. The truth is that people refused to cross a mall to save a buck on a CD. If they really wanted it, they bought it. If not, they passed. Nobody in retail discounted CDs very much because they didn't need to. In fact many stores sold budget titles for as much as a dollar above list price.

Beware of "common wisdom" circulated on the internet. A lot of it isn't true and is being circulated by people having an agenda to manipulate public opinion for their personal financial benefit.

Absolutely right. There was never any such thing as "filler". There was an artist you either liked or you didn't. If you didn't like most tracks on a CD then I'd say you didn't like the artist.... filler my giddy fu.cks...

[subby33]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Now if we can just get rid of the 99% crap the home users are putting out......

Yha but . . . I mean it's not like that stuff gets anywhere. It's only on soundcloud and youtube. I dont see the big problem with it. A lot of kids just want to make tunes and share them with friends . . . and plus you gotta start somewhere.

[erikdrink]

Originally Posted by subby33

Yha but . . . I mean it's not like that stuff gets anywhere. It's only on soundcloud and youtube. I dont see the big problem with it. A lot of kids just want to make tunes and share them with friends . . . and plus you gotta start somewhere.

True man!

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

No, that's more tech industry propaganda. The truth is that people refused to cross a mall to save a buck on a CD. If they really wanted it, they bought it. If not, they passed. Nobody in retail discounted CDs very much because they didn't need to. In fact many stores sold budget titles for as much as a dollar above list price.

Beware of "common wisdom" circulated on the internet. A lot of it isn't true and is being circulated by people having an agenda to manipulate public opinion for their personal financial benefit.

Very true.

[projektk]

Music is art and art is priceless, and will never be free. The flaw in saying people are done buying music is untrue because even a pirate will pay for the music they'd like to see survive.

The only way to support you theory is if you fully follow of your own explained flaws in the business world. Do you depend on streaming services and piracy? I sure don't.

For example I downloaded ICP's Bang Pow Boom and then bought it on release day. Did I download it to try before buy? Nope, The Calm by ICP sucked ass but I bought it because I like the group, I simply download the music I buy to have it 3 days or more early. Its wrong, but not as wrong as not paying for their hard work. Seriously the clowns spend rediculous amounts of money on faygo and stage gear for shows, I will pay them even for crap because I want those awesome stage sets and shows they put on so I support them.

Music lives, paying for it will never die only the crappy music will be the victim to piracy and streaming media. Also everytime you listen to a track on streaming they get a cent for ad revenue so the main artists still make a pretty penny on ads, I make maybe $3 a month but that's 300 half or more song streams without advertising my music.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz.com

[John Paul]

pop records all had filler songs, even the Beatles had filler (great songs though) and the labels would always push the best songs which were most "radio friendly".

[newdigitaluser]

Originally Posted by John Paul

pop records all had filler songs, even the Beatles had filler (great songs though) and the labels would always push the best songs which were most "radio friendly".

very true

and if they had any other good songs
they kept them for the next album

one great song
2-3 good ones
6-8 crappy ones

get paid for ten songs on an album
when they would sell 2-3 max if they were onesies