The days of selling music are over.

[newdigitaluser]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Absolutely right. There was never any such thing as "filler". There was an artist you either liked or you didn't. If you didn't like most tracks on a CD then I'd say you didn't like the artist.... filler my giddy fu.cks...

and 45s never had a B side
they just had two A sides

dont you think the greedy suits would have put out
2x as many 45s if they could only have thought to put one A song on one side and some crap from the slushpile on the other if that were really true that there were no filler songs so they could make 2x as much money.

[newdigitaluser]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

No, that's more tech industry propaganda. The truth is that people refused to cross a mall to save a buck on a CD. If they really wanted it, they bought it. If not, they passed. Nobody in retail discounted CDs very much because they didn't need to. In fact many stores sold budget titles for as much as a dollar above list price.

Beware of "common wisdom" circulated on the internet. A lot of it isn't true and is being circulated by people having an agenda to manipulate public opinion for their personal financial benefit.

i remember buying classical cds for a buck.
sure they are out of copyright but they had to pay the orchestras , manufacture, ship, promote, etc.

most pop rock etc. cds were way overpriced.
most music is still overpriced even as downloads.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by subby33

Yha but . . . I mean it's not like that stuff gets anywhere. It's only on soundcloud and youtube. I dont see the big problem with it. A lot of kids just want to make tunes and share them with friends . . . and plus you gotta start somewhere.

it's all noise and supporting the "me too" generation!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by John Paul

pop records all had filler songs, even the Beatles had filler (great songs though) and the labels would always push the best songs which were most "radio friendly".

Filler is for people who don't like artists. One mans filler is anothers fave song.

[RainbowStorm]

subby33, the old CD and vinyl formats are probably going to slowly disappear over time, we don't really need the expensive overhead that comes with manually distributing and offline storing content. Think of it like this, as overall distribution and storage efficiency increases, so does the overall music income, because more music can be sold to less costs, this means a boost in music industry cash flow.

It's important to see companies like Spotify as manufacturers of "Online Music Players", selling more music players has really never been bad for music, in fact that boosts the whole industry because the overall music experiences are enriched. Key here is the format factor, the online format is a new format category which has never existed before in the history of mankind, this is adding a totally new dimension of value to music, hence it's extremely good to the music industry!

So the music industry has just been re-born and sales wise is currently making new all-time highs. Extremely lucrative!

[faun2500]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Errr....... if you are passionate about creativity, you'll want to earn money to support your creativity so you don't have to be a plumber 12 hours a day, and a musician for the remaining few hours you are awake.
No money coming in, no chance to exploit your talent and creativity in a passionate way.

I disagree.

[faun2500]

Originally Posted by rack gear

pretty much what every hobbyist says who can't make it professionally...

I'm sure not ALL people want to be professional.

[Bullseye]

Something else has already replaced CDs and Vinyl + HOME RECORDING! Sell gear, play music - or something like that.....Teach recording, broadcast live performances from your homes, etc. The options are right in front of your faces but folks are obsessed with "stardom". The truth is almost none of the people here will achieve fame and fortune. That being said, how about music for film, incidental music, sound for various applications, commercials, WEBSITES that aren't from musicians, video games, etc. and so forth. Because unless you can create great songs, all this other stuff is by the way. And since I have seen a million posts about how to compress vocals a not a one about how to create lyrics, I think the problem is not the business. Further proof is the fact that the same claims of a failing or non existent business or disappearing business were being made before some of the posters on this board were born.....

[Bullseye]

Another thought. The demands on musicians arguably have changed and increased. to make the same money which, has less value dollar for dollar (pound for pound, buck for buck [I wrote BUCK..BUCK, got that, not the other word!!!!!!], quid for quid) one has to work harder and do more than ever before. But this is not unique to musicians so......

[Soundseed]

Originally Posted by rack gear

pretty much what every hobbyist says who can't make it professionally...

There are definitely areas of the industry where professionalism is an absolute prerequisite: from session players to studios, like any business, the ability to earn a living depends on being able to deliver the goods. But at its core, the ability to create original, expressive music of some artistic value has nothing to do with anything other than the innate musical talents and skills of the artist/s: and that - not some identikit template for professionalism - is what most musicians strive for first and foremost. Of course few will actually achieve it, because a) genuine talent is a lot rarer than those who profit from selling musical equipment and services would have us believe, and b) where someone has a genuine musical talent, it is more often than not mutually exclusive to the shameless self publicising skills required to exploit their talent for commercial gain.

By way of example, below is a link to the song "Be Gone", title track from my brother's last album release, back in April. He earns almost nil from music and in your terms is a "hobbyist", while in mine (and many others) he is a gifted singer, songwriter and performer. So here's a little challenge for you and indeed the entire "professional" membership of Gearslutz. Strip back to your voice, acoustic guitar (or piano) and see if you can do better. If you can, stick the link up on this thread and give us an objective musical demonstration of what separates the work of "hobbyists" and "professionals". And if you can't, put your money where your mouth is and go buy Robin's album/s so he can be a professional too.

http://soundcloud.com/robin-adams/be-gone

[cdog]

Originally Posted by Michael E

Music industry should offer a reasonably priced streaming service with subscription payment.

$14.99 a month you get any album ever made in full quality lossless format streaming. Also provide storage for up to 200 of your favorite albums and you only have to reauthorize them online once a month. Provide better service and selection than the pirate sites, and you would have tens of millions of subscriptions.

[subby33]

Originally Posted by RainbowStorm

subby33, the old CD and vinyl formats are probably going to slowly disappear over time, we don't really need the expensive overhead that comes with manually distributing and offline storing content. Think of it like this, as overall distribution and storage efficiency increases, so does the overall music income, because more music can be sold to less costs, this means a boost in music industry cash flow.

It's important to see companies like Spotify as manufacturers of "Online Music Players", selling more music players has really never been bad for music, in fact that boosts the whole industry because the overall music experiences are enriched. Key here is the format factor, the online format is a new format category which has never existed before in the history of mankind, this is adding a totally new dimension of value to music, hence it's extremely good to the music industry!

So the music industry has just been re-born and sales wise is currently making new all-time highs. Extremely lucrative!

I've been researching this more, and this is what I've been finding as well. Unfortunately though, for lesser known artists, it doesn't really work out well for them. The industry will have more money again, but the artists are really getting shafted with streaming. Hmmm. I dunno, its all pretty complicated.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by faun2500

I disagree.

It having been my entire life, I beg to differ.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Soundseed

There are definitely areas of the industry where professionalism is an absolute prerequisite: from session players to studios, like any business, the ability to earn a living depends on being able to deliver the goods. But at its core, the ability to create original, expressive music of some artistic value has nothing to do with anything other than the innate musical talents and skills of the artist/s: and that - not some identikit template for professionalism - is what most musicians strive for first and foremost.

Utter nonsense as hundreds of years of history has shown us.
Every significant artist in any discipline (arts, writing, music) has engineered their existence to work fulltime. If working on your art fulltime was not an imperative, why would everyone from Mahler, Miles Davis, Picasso, The Beatles, Hunter S Thompson, Damien Hirst, Philip Glass, Robert De Niro, Cindy Sherman to Martin Scorcese all made their passion their only source of income?

[Lance Lawson]

The solution to piracy is very very simple. Stop making MP3 and or other downloadable forms of recorded music. If the industry would go back to issuing music on formats that can't be reproduced at home (such as vinyl) or made available in cyberspace then the answer is to either stop listening to music or buy the record. I can't think of any kid anywhere that would forgo having a music collection and if said music collection is vinyl/CD based so be it. I don't know where the idea that any piece of music can be found somewhere for free comes from but most of the music I covet is not out there for free.

I'm really sorry if the poor little darlings walking around with iphones and earbuds jammed in their rears should be asked to pay for real music on real formats that sound like real music. The worst thing the record industry ever did was to cease making music on formats that can't be duplicated easily or at home. OTOH vinyl which was the ultimate in non duplication isn't exactly a breathtaking format in terms of overall fedility.

[mikeg09]

I think music will always be able to be sold. Maybe not millions like before but still enough to make an impact. People who buy the music will be the real fans of the artist/band who actually care about the hard work put into making the album they bought.
Either way, if the music industry thinks that "robotic/futuristic" production is going to sell more records I feel really bad for them. It was the organic material that actually was considered "art" which sold the most records. Once record labels realize that, music will sound better and more people will appreciate it.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Lance Lawson

The solution to piracy is very very simple. Stop making MP3 and or other downloadable forms of recorded music. If the industry would go back to issuing music on formats that can't be reproduced at home (such as vinyl) or made available in cyberspace then the answer is to either stop listening to music or buy the record. I can't think of any kid anywhere that would forgo having a music collection and if said music collection is vinyl/CD based so be it.

Totally impractical.
Even 20 years ago you could bulk copy CD's at 20x speed.

Also, there are many honest people using iPads, iPhones and iPods to play their music.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by mikeg09

Either way, if the music industry thinks that "robotic/futuristic" production is going to sell more records I feel really bad for them. It was the organic material that actually was considered "art" which sold the most records. Once record labels realize that, music will sound better and more people will appreciate it.

Errrr, there are a lot of artistic recordings coming out still. It's never been easier to record and distribute your 'organic', non 'robotic' music.
Unfortunately, 'organic' is no barrier to the pirates, and great music is stolen and therefore threatened as much as anything else.

[gizeh12]

The first objective 3d part marketing/sales data of spotify clearly indicate that its impossible, even for album top 50 bands to earn a break even point where at least, production and distribution costs are covered.

The following media are declining:
-CD sales are already declining fast for all sorts of music
-Vinyl is steady only for certain genres, but than still, sales volume is too low to cover costs.
-mp3, piracy is decrimental to sales volume, itunes sale is also NOT profitable.
-streaming: not profitable for the artists, only for the business owners.

Added to this, the cultural cummulation of music, just devaluates new music in general. My 14 year old daughter now has Pink Floyd, Billy Holiday & Lady Gaga on her iphone. 10 years ago, teenagers mostly listened to music of their generation.
The net effect is that there is less time and demand from the public for new music.

So the only modus operandi for music seem to be life gigs, events and movies/games but in this frame, bootstrapping is a problem.
It's depressing, but it's true.
i've seen top producers putting tracks up for free on soundcloud and having a hard time even get people to download it for free.
It's just something we have to learn to live with.

[mikeg09]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Errrr, there are a lot of artistic recordings coming out still. It's never been easier to record and distribute your 'organic', non 'robotic' music.
Unfortunately, 'organic' is no barrier to the pirates, and great music is stolen and therefore threatened as much as anything else.

True, but most robotic music out now isn’t selling as much as the organic material did. Then what makes it worse is that people are so brainwashed into listening to garbage..

It’s like the music industry is screwing themselves over by signing 12 year olds to sell records. What happened to the Elvis Presley’s, the Slim Shadys, the Dr. Dres, the older Def Jam record artists, etc..?

If you think that a song like "Big Sean feat. Nicki Minaj - Ass" is going to make people want to actually go to the store and by something like that, you’re probably brainwashed as well..

Eminem’s-Recovery album was one of those albums that sold the most records of 2011. It was an organic album. But that is only because Eminem made such an impact years ago with organic material which is why so many people respect his craft and his music still today.

Soulja Boy is an example of a non-organic artist who isn’t selling anything.. He was hot at first but robotic production is only hot when it first comes out. He’s not going to be anything great as the years go by.

So when record labels realize this, hopefully more people will buy more albums regardless of the internet providing it for free. Like I said before, more people will appreciate it.

Anyway, I rest my case with facts. I’m going to another thread now.

[gizeh12]

What are you guys meaning exactely by "robotic/futuristic" production?

[mikeg09]

Originally Posted by gizeh12

What are you guys meaning exactely by "robotic/futuristic" production?

Go listen to the radio. The pop stations. The 'hip hop and r&b stations..even though they are not playing any hip hop

[Hoffmanwantsgear]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Utter nonsense as hundreds of years of history has shown us.
Every significant artist in any discipline (arts, writing, music) has engineered their existence to work fulltime. If working on your art fulltime was not an imperative, why would everyone from Mahler, Miles Davis, Picasso, The Beatles, Hunter S Thompson, Damien Hirst, Philip Glass, Robert De Niro, Cindy Sherman to Martin Scorcese all made their passion their only source of income?

I want to agree with your point but Philip Glass drove taxis.....

[gizeh12]

Originally Posted by Hoffmanwantsgear

I want to agree with your point but Philip Glass drove taxis.....

Phillip Glass went in to training under Nadia Boulanger, than geared towards full time composition.

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by Hoffmanwantsgear

I want to agree with your point but Philip Glass drove taxis.....

Why doesn't he still drive taxis if he's making music for the art and passion?

Oh No!? Philip Glass wants to be paid for his work? What a materialistic creep!

[gizeh12]

Originally Posted by mikeg09

Go listen to the radio. The pop stations. The 'hip hop and r&b stations..even though they are not playing any hip hop

i get the robotic part as in "no soul", but i dont understand what's futuristic about it.

[GearOnTheGo]

Originally Posted by mikeg09

True, but most robotic music out now isn’t selling as much as the organic material did. Then what makes it worse is that people are so brainwashed into listening to garbage..

It’s like the music industry is screwing themselves over by signing 12 year olds to sell records. What happened to the Elvis Presley’s, the Slim Shadys, the Dr. Dres, the older Def Jam record artists, etc..?

If you think that a song like "Big Sean feat. Nicki Minaj - Ass" is going to make people want to actually go to the store and by something like that, you’re probably brainwashed as well..

Eminem’s-Recovery album was one of those albums that sold the most records of 2011. It was an organic album. But that is only because Eminem made such an impact years ago with organic material which is why so many people respect his craft and his music still today.

Soulja Boy is an example of a non-organic artist who isn’t selling anything.. He was hot at first but robotic production is only hot when it first comes out. He’s not going to be anything great as the years go by.

So when record labels realize this, hopefully more people will buy more albums regardless of the internet providing it for free. Like I said before, more people will appreciate it.

Anyway, I rest my case with facts. I’m going to another thread now.

What facts?

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by mikeg09

Then what makes it worse is that people are so brainwashed into listening to garbage..

I love it when people think they are the only ones who know good music when they hear it.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by Hoffmanwantsgear

I want to agree with your point but Philip Glass drove taxis.....

A veeeeeeeeery long time ago.
Everyone starts out part time, the point being, they go fulltime to concentrate on their art, they don't stay part time as if it's some route to artistic purity.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I love it when people think they are the only ones who know good music when they hear it.

if they have such great tastes, and good business sense, they should start a label and show the idiots how to do it right... waiting...