Getting your tracks heard, How do you do it?!

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by offki

If you're staring at peak meters with a semi glazed look on your face eating pizza/doughnuts whatever, it's probably not. :P

[Id Ridden]

Originally Posted by Middollo

A very basic simple question. What u think is the best way to get ''hits'' on your track? How do you do it? Where do you send it where do you post it?

And yes we all know about soundcloud and youtube.... just to clarify lol

A basic simple question it is not! It is too vague and open and lacks purpose... It also lacks details, important in any plan... basically it's like you have asked someone to tell you your business plan but without providing any idea of the business at all and zero details into anything, essentially impossible...

You need to formulate a plan, some sort of end-goal, and then work backwards the steps needed to achieve that goal or at least get you heading in the general direction... of course the end-goal isn't actually an end, just a portal to another goal etc. but without purpose, you basically will flounder...

So, what is the best way? It all depends on why you want those hits, on what your definition of hits is, on what your music is, who you are, the image you want to project and what your goals and aspirations are, amongst a multitude of other factors... as you can see in the thread, there are a ton of answers all given with the utmost belief they are correct and most of them are in some sense, BUT, it is not specific advice given to your specific situation, circumstances and goals and therefore it's really just a bunch of Internet fodder and to be honest, most of it lacks in creativity and originality, sorry...

at the end of the day, just be phenomenal in every way possible and you'll probably be okay...

carry on

[treewhispers]

I totally agreee with you @Id Ridden...!

the magic formula seems to be to sell thousands of units without a label to get the interests of the labels but...
1. how can you sell your music when your're not already popular and when it's a proven fact...
...that about 75% of the music which people buy at itunes is music from popular artists and that none of the other 25% sells more than 100 units/year?
obviously just a few people are interested in (buying) music from unknown artists...
you can be sure that it will be about the same in any other mp3-store or any other place where you can sell your music online.

2. how can you sell music if even most of the people who like your stuff refuse to spent any money for music but still share it on the iternet for free? many consumers believe they don't harm the artists if they just download 8 songs via rapidshare or hear their ("illegally uploaded"!!! music) on youtube - instead of buying the cd/mp3s...

even people who could easily afford buying a mp3 or a cd for some bucks prefer to hear the music for free...
most consumers are of the opinion music of unknown artists isn't worthy of paying something for, even if it's a top studio-production, just because it's still "unknow" but on the other hand they also refuse to buy the stuff from the popular artists.
the consumers of unknown music seem to see theirselfs as kind of "mentors" who give some feedback if they like a song and that's they way they "pay" for the free "unknown" music. - paying by giving some attention.

as soon as the listener has the feeling that he already knows the best songs of the unknown artist he will leave and probably will just come back if the artists releases something new. this means, if the artists doesn't release really good song regulary the listener won't visit the artist on the internet anymore and other artists will get his or her attention. so it was never so easy to get recognized and forgotten at the same time...
from my experience the listener won't even ask if the band has more good songs in there repertoire, because if they had they would have already uploaded theses songs.


3. how can you sell your stuff if most people wouldn't buy any music they don't know.
because this means you must give them your best song for free so that they can really get to know your chocolate side. - yet this song is probably they only one they had bought if they couldn't get it for free... but still they won't buy it as soon as they can hear the song in full-lenght (or at least the verse and chrous) for free..
(because "you" are an unknown artists and they don't wanna risk to buy some crap. they must connect with this song and therefor they need to hear some really good song in full-lenght to let it grow on them)
.
4. how can you sell your stuff if you have to "promote" it on websites where people go to listen to music for free instead of buying music (like youtube, myspace) and on websites where you can sell your songs but still have to give people full-length streams in your online-music-player?
who will click the "buy" button right next to a full-length song? or let me ask you, would you click the buy-button if you could see the porn-movie already in full-lenght?
a stream is so easy downloadable...I mean one of the most searched terms after myspace is "myspace downloader".
so people aren't attached to your profiles, - they can download your streams
instantly if they really wanna "own" your music.
that's a vicicious circle and the only way out is to switch off the internet or to bann all people who refuse to pay for the music but still wanna hear it.
so we all want the attention of you listeners, we call them even "fans" but as long as they refuse to buy our music though we give them this chance they are more enemies instead of friends and fans.
theses people "disrispect" your work on your art, and therefor this part of your personality and life as musicians, they "disrespect" the worth of creation and creativity and devalue it totally so that even some tap water seems to have more value then a very good and well-produced song which might have needed 10+ years of experience in playing an instrument/singing and an expensive studio (or gear) to get composed, recorded and produced.
so you offer them something that has costs you so much work (and probably much money too) and they "pay" for it just by attention. now you should be glad jsut because they "like" it on facebook? if I like using a pre-amp I have to buy it. If I like playing a guitar regulary I have to pay for.
it would be really funny if the manufactures would be glad, if I would just "like" their product on facebook and would never buy it.

so don't be that stupid it's impossible to sell enough units to gain the interest of a label that really has the budget to give you the chances to earn a living with your own music as long as you can't afford a really good promoter for at least 1000 dollar/month, who makes your music more and more popular until you really have some devoted fans, who lvoe your stuff enough to buy it. - to sell 30.000 units (a number that "might" gain the interest of some labels) you need at least 210.000 fans...so 210.000 people who really wanna at least "own" your music. - it's statistically proven that just 1 of 7 people buy a song and the other 6 people download this song for free. even if theses statistics refer to filesharing-software, you can be shure it's not really different if people use rapidshare-links and youtube to "share" music.

that's why I claim for 30.000 sold units you need to have 210.000 "fans" (not just "listeners"), so your music has to be so good that 210.000 people are really into it! even if you have 800.000 myspace-"friends" you can't be really shure that 210.000 of them are also your "fans"...

though we have so many tools that pretend to mirror us how "popular" we are, like facebook-"likes", number of songplays, comments, "followers" and so on it's not really possible to meassure exactly how many "fans" we really have. a "real" fan is someone who buys your music, shirts or pays for your tickets. someone who really is with the band,
all the other people are just "fans" but they never give you anything than plain attention (and sometimes just because they want your attention in return ;-...think about "groupies", "attention-*****s"...).

getting such high numbers of friends via youtube is really hard. on youtube there are millions of videos and you can just add a very limited number of friends per day and sent just a few messages. you need to chain accounts to be able to sent some more messages without getting banned from youtube...

facebook is good to gain some popularity but let's assume you just have 10 facebook friends and these people each of them just has 10-30 other facebook friends.
then it's really hard to spread your music and facebook doesn't allow you to sent request to other people
if they are not friends of your friends. so as soon as you sent to many request to some strangers on facebook, facebook will kick you in the ass.

soundcloud is a shithole...there you find just other musicians who are there because of their own music and who want attention. be sure they just follow you, because you follow them and they are really the last people on this planet who would buy your stuff.

and for other reasons most other sites like bandcamp, reverbnation are also not good tools to sell stuff. look at bandcamp 17 millions free downloads and just about 1 millions sells... I am sure there are at much more than one million musicians on bandcamp...

all theses platforms are based on the idea of promoting "free" music online and they are not the places where the average listeners go to hear music. most people hear music on youtube, myspace is dead and on the facebook most people also share just youtube-links.

the whole concept of musicians promoting their music online is nonsense.
it's just an illusion and from at least 3.5 million bands in the net just maybe 10 have made it big just via the internet and most of them made it big in the early days of myspace!
the only people who make money from it are the people who make have created all these communities like "soundcloud". they give you premium-memberships and functions that are mostly completly ineffective to create a stable base of paying fans.
because we try to use the right tools at the wrong time... a time where almost no one cares about buying music.

so probably the only and best way to make it big is with the help of a promoter. you need these really big promotion-power so that you get access to the bigger media. ok, now and then some muscians have a youtube-"hit"...but that's by pure chance and often just mainstream-music and usually it's more about the person than just about the music....look at justin bieber or this stupid "friday"-song (which was recently a big youtube-hit) for instance.

the other way to make it big isto have very good music, well-produced so that it just needs a mastering to compete with the production quality of other actual successful music and then don't release this music for free anywhere.
instead offer this (nearly) finished "product" (of course it's still art!) to some labels, because a big label still has some budget and after some days of promo they could easily estimate if they could sell enough of it and then they could continue the promotion. for sure they can't sell it effectively if you have already
spread your music in the internet for years so that thousands of people already share it. in this case everyone can easily find some rapidshare- nnd youtube-links
of your music if they get to know you in the bigger media and then just a few people will buy it.
but if the music is just there as soon as the "big promotion" starts it's easier to delete a lot more of illegal uploaded videos, filesharing-links and so on.
also if you wanna spread your music in the net now without any big promotion be sure to fight against any illegal filesharing of your music.
because labels don't like it if thousands of people already have gotten the music for free. what it's worth if you could sell 100 units while 10.000 people have downloaded your music illegaly? but if you can sell 100 units and can avoid any filesharing than you have better chances to sell the music in the future because maybe 10.000 people would buy it because they can't find it on youtube. so if you give the listeners the chance to hear your music for free don't complain about
earning nothing with music.

furthermore I don't know why labels would really need artists who already sold thousand of untis without their help...? - selling so much without their help could easily take 10 years.
so maybe this is just a rumour from people who try to promote all this sites that give musicians the opportunity to sell their music online without a label. then these people claim: "hey labels just get interested in you if you have already sold a zillion units without them".
I think if labels really think this way, it would be really stupid of them. we shouldn't support their stupid attitude because then just musicians who are in the underground for many years and rich musicians who can let promote theirself professionally get the best chances and this isn't fair towards the highly talented younger musicians who deserve to fill some venues and tour the world "now" - and not just 10 years later. so things need to get supported as soon as the talent and good msuic is there not as soon as the attention and money is there. labels who can just think in bussines terms are no labels anymore and are enemies of music-culture and musicians as just as all the listeners who doesn't want to pay for music anymore.
so as you see as, even if you have to offer really good music you are sourrounded by enemies and still you want to "give" them something for free? still you want to "appeal" to them and await they treat you good?
look at lilly allan and you will see how good your fans and the media will treat yuo if you await to getting paid for your music...
some decades ago there had been real chances to make a living with your own music and to built up a life-long career. today this is nearly impossible
so working as musicians based on your own music can't be seen as realistic goal anymore. it's like the crazy idea to earn a living just by playing online-poker...

if we all would not have this hunger for attention there wouldn't be free music online from unknown artist and therefor at least the unknown music would maintain a certain value because in this case it would be very hard to find music from unknown artist in the internet. today we have shitloads of unknown artist and music in the net and that's big problem that devalues music right from the start.

does it make the world or other peoples life really better or does it make the world or other peoples life worst if they wouldn't know abot our your music?
I mean showing the music to our families and friends or find 10 people in the net who like it, that's is also "attention". that's why playing some regional gigs "could" also be enough
but we all want more and more attention, fans and even money in times where it's becomes really more and more difficult to get this attention or to even earn some money, because there are already too many musicians in the internet. everyone seems to think he "must" have a place in the internet and "must" promote his or her music, for sure I don't want to offend anyone but that's the biggest problem...
we have no quality controls on all this music platforms so that even completly talentless musicians can release their music on the net and the musicians
with real talent get overlooked. we badly need a platforms with a fair and good working quality control.
a label just releases "good" music (at least they don't release everything "everything"...) but the internet platforms
like myspace, bandcamp etc. release everything. they don't tell you: "sorry, your music is not good enough you are not allowed to release anything on our platform" because they simply know that they can make money with all the free music, even if there it contains much bad music.
they are in the position that they don't need good music as long as they can earn something with the moeny of the musicians by offering premium-memberships, online distribution, advertising.
they all tell you with out help you can get fans, make it big someday, earn money with your music bla bla...
if they would be really interested in your success they would establish a strict quality control.
all these people who run these music platforms like soundcloud, last.fm, myspace, youtube, bandcamp, reverbnation have helped to devalue music much more and sadly almost all of us have wasted much time (and money) there.
if you wanna make promotion basically you just need your own website and a community where you are allowed to promote
your music and hint to your website. so even with a non-band myspace-account you could message thousand of users
and give them the link to your own website and "collect" them "there". still we all tried to collect them in a myspace-friendspace that today has no relevance because most people don't use myspace anymore. should we collect them now on facebook or any other network that is said to be "relevant"?
so it's always better to make promotion for the own website and today it's so easy and cheap to make a website and even a simple website looks much better than the new mysace-designs and will have a "guestbook" for comments as well.
after three years of online-promotion I really know what I'm saying and my music has received hundrets of good comments
so it obvioulsy can't be the just plain crap because I know many bands who have received almost no good feedback all these years but still I have no reachable "fans" anymore because the people have forgotten my music together with the dead of myspace and most of them doesn't log-in anymore, I don't have their private mail-adresses, they don't know my website-url because I always just have used myspace as my "homepage". so I would love to be able to reach my hundrets of fans there and they are at least fans because at least they have given me a positive feedback. I'd like to give them a little insight in new songs or to inform them about my activities but they are gone.
and even if I had used twitter...it's a fact that twitter bores the people. knowing everyday something new about celebreties, musicians etc. makes them more and more uninteresting. there must be a certain distance, in some ways you have to be there but still somehow untouchable and unknown, so that fans can project something into you and use their own fantasy, so don't be like someone of their facebook-friends and be always there. that's really important!

very best wishes to all of you!

treewhispers

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by Middollo

A very basic simple question. What u think is the best way to get ''hits'' on your track? How do you do it? Where do you send it where do you post it?

And yes we all know about soundcloud and youtube.... just to clarify lol

The answer is simple, it doesn't take a novel to explain... here it is:

If you want to get 'hits' you need to write a HIT!
period

[offki]

One really good way is to take the president/pm hostage and then when the tv cameras arrive turn on those JBLS, world wide coverage.

[Multiplier]

Some real crappy advice here. Some good advice too, but some seriously ******** comments. I don't like being negative, but it has to be said.

[offki]

Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh

The answer is simple, it doesn't take a novel to explain... here it is:

If you want to get 'hits' you need to write a HIT!
period

Maybe that's how it worked in the 60's bro, but if you think that's how it still works you must be living in a cave.

[3rd Degree]

I only make instrumentals so I can't easily promote my music as it's not a finished work. I met the right people and found myself around some of the best rappers in my area. Some liked my music, some didn't really care but that's where I started getting heard, getting on albums.

On the net, I tend to actually hit up artists I want to work with. I find it very strange that with all these social networking outlets, artists never tend to feel like they can hit up another artist. Business, advice, normal chit chat, I do all of that through all the known sites. More artists are responsive than not.

As for all these music specific sites, none have done much for me. I do think youtube is a great outlet if you are willing to make videos. Some people just post up music with a graphic but videos always seem to do better. I have yet to dabble there, outside of some tutorial videos I have. Even without taking it seriously, I have about 200,000 views so I image I could do better with actual music projects.

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by offki

Maybe that's how it worked in the 60's bro, but if you think that's how it still works you must be living in a cave.

lol, if you say so..
Hits are even MORE important now then ever before. If you want to stand out of the ever increasing crowd of noise out there.. you'd better have something that stands out.
Unless you're content having your family members check out your myspace page... in which case, sure.. you're getting "hits"...

[offki]

Im not going to argue with you as you plainly live in a fantasy world. Say hi to the unicorns.

[ThePremiere]

1. Create a practice/production schedule.
2. Eat right. Excercise.
3. Save $
4. More practice. Gig.
5. Go out into the town with friends, meet new people and brag about what you do. In fact tell everybody about what you do every day. The world is small and you will run into people who know people..
6.... which comes the next step- Start building relationships with:
*radio *publishers *labels *other artists *songwriters etc etc blah
7... find ppl who dig your music and try to create a street team.
8. gig more
9. with all the $ you saved, create a budget for an indie radio/promo campaign
10. drink 3 cups of high quality green tea a day.
11. spend time with family and friends.
12. make love
13. listen to new music, and spread new music that you love to friends and strangers.
14. by this time, you should have a small fan base...

15-20 ... Foster your fanbase, but dont overpromote and be annoying
...come up with cool themes/parties/questions. reach out in unique ways.

START ESTABLISHING A PERSONAL BRAND- instead of a jpeg of a skull with headphones on and your stupid DJ name underneath it.

Do something crazy and fun. Get media coverage. EXCEL SPREADSHEETs- use them!

you need internet on your phone. always have business cards/ mobile internet/ networking tools.

The next cutie you run into may have a cousin who works for Island Def Jam... "ohh i dont have any cards, damn, here lemme write down my email. bullshit. come off like professional with a clever business card and you will be a professional in their eyes.

Always be ready for anything. Control your emotions. Discipline. Focus. Drive. Hunger. Be hungry. Make music that you would buy and ppl will buy it.

Last AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:

Spend 75% of your free time making music, 20% doing fun inspiring things with people you care about things AWAY from the computer, and the 5% on this forum and you will succeed.

P.S. Stop worrying about the state of the business, how to make it, etc. Stop creating these illusions that success is some giant puzzle in your mind, and spend that time making amazing music full of rhythm, emotion, feeling, inspiration and fun. Learn from the masters, but go on your own path and create the future.

-david jackman

jackmanproductions.com

[victoria stiles]

Music publicity has changed drastically in the past few years. Publicity, like building a fanbase, takes time, dedication and effort. But the most effective way to get publicity is to upload your music to social networking sites. It is also a good idea to upload your music to youtube and soundclick. After getting enough popularity, artist can switch to its own website.

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by offki

Im not going to argue with you as you plainly live in a fantasy world. Say hi to the unicorns.

Are you serious? Are you honestly suggesting that you don't need good music?


OP: if you want to get people's attention, it all starts with the music. Make sure you have something on offer that people will want to listen to.
Unless you want to be Rebecca Black, work on musicianship, songwriting, ect.
Only then can you start promotion (when you have something worth promoting*)


*i don't know where you're at in you career or what your music is. For instance, the link in your signature is broken... i'd start there!

[victoria stiles]

Music promotion companies are great for bands who have a little bit of a marketing budget. You can get more fans and more success without having to spend hours and hours every day in front of the computer spamming the social networks and record companies.Making better and better music is like rocket fuel for all your marketing efforts because suddenly people will be falling in love with what you do and the real fans will start rolling in.

[Soundseed]

Originally Posted by victoria stiles

Music promotion companies are great for bands who have a little bit of a marketing budget. You can get more fans and more success without having to spend hours and hours every day in front of the computer spamming the social networks and record companies.Making better and better music is like rocket fuel for all your marketing efforts because suddenly people will be falling in love with what you do and the real fans will start rolling in.

+1

But if you can't afford publicists, you can stilll go DIY...

Radio, press and blogs are always on the look out for new talent: they depend on a constant flow which they can present to their audiences. The trick is to treat approaching them in much the same way as professional publicists and labels do. Put together a decent package - press release, biog, music, and website, and hang it all on a release and ideally tour as well. Make sure they get your stuff well in advance - up to 8 weeks+ for monthly magazines, and gently but persistently follow it up.

Target the recipients carefully - there is almost no point in sending material to radio producers on peak time shows, but there are plenty of evening and late night slots which will offer slots to new unsigned artists - here in the UK we have BBC 6Music and Radio 1 offering "introducing" shows and most independent stations have similar slots. The same applies to music press and blogs - target publications which are sympathetic to your genre, and feature new music.

My experience is that there is a fearsome ratio of hit to miss: for every 15 or 20 targets, you may get only one which follows up. The key is to hit as many potential outlets as possible - if you go for several hundred across press, radio, blogs you may get a decent amount of radio play, reviews and blog mentions, which in turn can generate interest from those who didn't respond first time around. It takes a lot of stamina to maintain a campaign.

Beware though.... you need to plan well ahead and make sure you have plenty of "content" not just for the initial release, but the following months - a single followed by an album, with a launch, followed by a tour, followed by a single, followed by some festival gigs etc... is typically what you need to aim for... it is very easy to build a profile and then lose momentum by running out of steam.

Good luck.
-----------------------------
http://soundcloud.com/piet-haag/sxsw-not

[victoria stiles]

Nice ideas soundseed. even the whole thread is nice, as it contains so much useful information.

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh

Are you serious? Are you honestly suggesting that you don't need good music?


OP: if you want to get people's attention, it all starts with the music. Make sure you have something on offer that people will want to listen to.
Unless you want to be Rebecca Black, work on musicianship, songwriting, ect.
Only then can you start promotion (when you have something worth promoting*)


*i don't know where you're at in you career or what your music is. For instance, the link in your signature is broken... i'd start there!

look at all the crapp out there

its all MARKETING AND PROMOTION
the music has nothing to do with it
spend enough to get the snowball going downhill
and all the sheep will suddenly believe that this crapp
is beautiful music and line up with the other lemmings
to throw their money at these promoters and their "star"

[oldeanalogueguy]

Originally Posted by treewhispers

I totally agreee with you @Id Ridden...!

the magic formula seems to be to sell thousands of units without a label to get the interests of the labels but...
1. how can you sell your music when your're not already popular and when it's a proven fact...
...that about 75% of the music which people buy at itunes is music from popular artists and that none of the other 25% sells more than 100 units/year?
obviously just a few people are interested in (buying) music from unknown artists...
you can be sure that it will be about the same in any other mp3-store or any other place where you can sell your music online.

2. how can you sell music if even most of the people who like your stuff refuse to spent any money for music but still share it on the iternet for free? many consumers believe they don't harm the artists if they just download 8 songs via rapidshare or hear their ("illegally uploaded"!!! music) on youtube - instead of buying the cd/mp3s...

even people who could easily afford buying a mp3 or a cd for some bucks prefer to hear the music for free...
most consumers are of the opinion music of unknown artists isn't worthy of paying something for, even if it's a top studio-production, just because it's still "unknow" but on the other hand they also refuse to buy the stuff from the popular artists.
the consumers of unknown music seem to see theirselfs as kind of "mentors" who give some feedback if they like a song and that's they way they "pay" for the free "unknown" music. - paying by giving some attention.

as soon as the listener has the feeling that he already knows the best songs of the unknown artist he will leave and probably will just come back if the artists releases something new. this means, if the artists doesn't release really good song regulary the listener won't visit the artist on the internet anymore and other artists will get his or her attention. so it was never so easy to get recognized and forgotten at the same time...
from my experience the listener won't even ask if the band has more good songs in there repertoire, because if they had they would have already uploaded theses songs.


3. how can you sell your stuff if most people wouldn't buy any music they don't know.
because this means you must give them your best song for free so that they can really get to know your chocolate side. - yet this song is probably they only one they had bought if they couldn't get it for free... but still they won't buy it as soon as they can hear the song in full-lenght (or at least the verse and chrous) for free..
(because "you" are an unknown artists and they don't wanna risk to buy some crap. they must connect with this song and therefor they need to hear some really good song in full-lenght to let it grow on them)
.
4. how can you sell your stuff if you have to "promote" it on websites where people go to listen to music for free instead of buying music (like youtube, myspace) and on websites where you can sell your songs but still have to give people full-length streams in your online-music-player?
who will click the "buy" button right next to a full-length song? or let me ask you, would you click the buy-button if you could see the porn-movie already in full-lenght?
a stream is so easy downloadable...I mean one of the most searched terms after myspace is "myspace downloader".
so people aren't attached to your profiles, - they can download your streams
instantly if they really wanna "own" your music.
that's a vicicious circle and the only way out is to switch off the internet or to bann all people who refuse to pay for the music but still wanna hear it.
so we all want the attention of you listeners, we call them even "fans" but as long as they refuse to buy our music though we give them this chance they are more enemies instead of friends and fans.
theses people "disrispect" your work on your art, and therefor this part of your personality and life as musicians, they "disrespect" the worth of creation and creativity and devalue it totally so that even some tap water seems to have more value then a very good and well-produced song which might have needed 10+ years of experience in playing an instrument/singing and an expensive studio (or gear) to get composed, recorded and produced.
so you offer them something that has costs you so much work (and probably much money too) and they "pay" for it just by attention. now you should be glad jsut because they "like" it on facebook? if I like using a pre-amp I have to buy it. If I like playing a guitar regulary I have to pay for.
it would be really funny if the manufactures would be glad, if I would just "like" their product on facebook and would never buy it.

so don't be that stupid it's impossible to sell enough units to gain the interest of a label that really has the budget to give you the chances to earn a living with your own music as long as you can't afford a really good promoter for at least 1000 dollar/month, who makes your music more and more popular until you really have some devoted fans, who lvoe your stuff enough to buy it. - to sell 30.000 units (a number that "might" gain the interest of some labels) you need at least 210.000 fans...so 210.000 people who really wanna at least "own" your music. - it's statistically proven that just 1 of 7 people buy a song and the other 6 people download this song for free. even if theses statistics refer to filesharing-software, you can be shure it's not really different if people use rapidshare-links and youtube to "share" music.

that's why I claim for 30.000 sold units you need to have 210.000 "fans" (not just "listeners"), so your music has to be so good that 210.000 people are really into it! even if you have 800.000 myspace-"friends" you can't be really shure that 210.000 of them are also your "fans"...

though we have so many tools that pretend to mirror us how "popular" we are, like facebook-"likes", number of songplays, comments, "followers" and so on it's not really possible to meassure exactly how many "fans" we really have. a "real" fan is someone who buys your music, shirts or pays for your tickets. someone who really is with the band,
all the other people are just "fans" but they never give you anything than plain attention (and sometimes just because they want your attention in return ;-...think about "groupies", "attention-*****s"...).

getting such high numbers of friends via youtube is really hard. on youtube there are millions of videos and you can just add a very limited number of friends per day and sent just a few messages. you need to chain accounts to be able to sent some more messages without getting banned from youtube...

facebook is good to gain some popularity but let's assume you just have 10 facebook friends and these people each of them just has 10-30 other facebook friends.
then it's really hard to spread your music and facebook doesn't allow you to sent request to other people
if they are not friends of your friends. so as soon as you sent to many request to some strangers on facebook, facebook will kick you in the ass.

soundcloud is a shithole...there you find just other musicians who are there because of their own music and who want attention. be sure they just follow you, because you follow them and they are really the last people on this planet who would buy your stuff.

and for other reasons most other sites like bandcamp, reverbnation are also not good tools to sell stuff. look at bandcamp 17 millions free downloads and just about 1 millions sells... I am sure there are at much more than one million musicians on bandcamp...

all theses platforms are based on the idea of promoting "free" music online and they are not the places where the average listeners go to hear music. most people hear music on youtube, myspace is dead and on the facebook most people also share just youtube-links.

the whole concept of musicians promoting their music online is nonsense.
it's just an illusion and from at least 3.5 million bands in the net just maybe 10 have made it big just via the internet and most of them made it big in the early days of myspace!
the only people who make money from it are the people who make have created all these communities like "soundcloud". they give you premium-memberships and functions that are mostly completly ineffective to create a stable base of paying fans.
because we try to use the right tools at the wrong time... a time where almost no one cares about buying music.

so probably the only and best way to make it big is with the help of a promoter. you need these really big promotion-power so that you get access to the bigger media. ok, now and then some muscians have a youtube-"hit"...but that's by pure chance and often just mainstream-music and usually it's more about the person than just about the music....look at justin bieber or this stupid "friday"-song (which was recently a big youtube-hit) for instance.

the other way to make it big isto have very good music, well-produced so that it just needs a mastering to compete with the production quality of other actual successful music and then don't release this music for free anywhere.
instead offer this (nearly) finished "product" (of course it's still art!) to some labels, because a big label still has some budget and after some days of promo they could easily estimate if they could sell enough of it and then they could continue the promotion. for sure they can't sell it effectively if you have already
spread your music in the internet for years so that thousands of people already share it. in this case everyone can easily find some rapidshare- nnd youtube-links
of your music if they get to know you in the bigger media and then just a few people will buy it.
but if the music is just there as soon as the "big promotion" starts it's easier to delete a lot more of illegal uploaded videos, filesharing-links and so on.
also if you wanna spread your music in the net now without any big promotion be sure to fight against any illegal filesharing of your music.
because labels don't like it if thousands of people already have gotten the music for free. what it's worth if you could sell 100 units while 10.000 people have downloaded your music illegaly? but if you can sell 100 units and can avoid any filesharing than you have better chances to sell the music in the future because maybe 10.000 people would buy it because they can't find it on youtube. so if you give the listeners the chance to hear your music for free don't complain about
earning nothing with music.

furthermore I don't know why labels would really need artists who already sold thousand of untis without their help...? - selling so much without their help could easily take 10 years.
so maybe this is just a rumour from people who try to promote all this sites that give musicians the opportunity to sell their music online without a label. then these people claim: "hey labels just get interested in you if you have already sold a zillion units without them".
I think if labels really think this way, it would be really stupid of them. we shouldn't support their stupid attitude because then just musicians who are in the underground for many years and rich musicians who can let promote theirself professionally get the best chances and this isn't fair towards the highly talented younger musicians who deserve to fill some venues and tour the world "now" - and not just 10 years later. so things need to get supported as soon as the talent and good msuic is there not as soon as the attention and money is there. labels who can just think in bussines terms are no labels anymore and are enemies of music-culture and musicians as just as all the listeners who doesn't want to pay for music anymore.
so as you see as, even if you have to offer really good music you are sourrounded by enemies and still you want to "give" them something for free? still you want to "appeal" to them and await they treat you good?
look at lilly allan and you will see how good your fans and the media will treat yuo if you await to getting paid for your music...
some decades ago there had been real chances to make a living with your own music and to built up a life-long career. today this is nearly impossible
so working as musicians based on your own music can't be seen as realistic goal anymore. it's like the crazy idea to earn a living just by playing online-poker...

if we all would not have this hunger for attention there wouldn't be free music online from unknown artist and therefor at least the unknown music would maintain a certain value because in this case it would be very hard to find music from unknown artist in the internet. today we have shitloads of unknown artist and music in the net and that's big problem that devalues music right from the start.

does it make the world or other peoples life really better or does it make the world or other peoples life worst if they wouldn't know abot our your music?
I mean showing the music to our families and friends or find 10 people in the net who like it, that's is also "attention". that's why playing some regional gigs "could" also be enough
but we all want more and more attention, fans and even money in times where it's becomes really more and more difficult to get this attention or to even earn some money, because there are already too many musicians in the internet. everyone seems to think he "must" have a place in the internet and "must" promote his or her music, for sure I don't want to offend anyone but that's the biggest problem...
we have no quality controls on all this music platforms so that even completly talentless musicians can release their music on the net and the musicians
with real talent get overlooked. we badly need a platforms with a fair and good working quality control.
a label just releases "good" music (at least they don't release everything "everything"...) but the internet platforms
like myspace, bandcamp etc. release everything. they don't tell you: "sorry, your music is not good enough you are not allowed to release anything on our platform" because they simply know that they can make money with all the free music, even if there it contains much bad music.
they are in the position that they don't need good music as long as they can earn something with the moeny of the musicians by offering premium-memberships, online distribution, advertising.
they all tell you with out help you can get fans, make it big someday, earn money with your music bla bla...
if they would be really interested in your success they would establish a strict quality control.
all these people who run these music platforms like soundcloud, last.fm, myspace, youtube, bandcamp, reverbnation have helped to devalue music much more and sadly almost all of us have wasted much time (and money) there.
if you wanna make promotion basically you just need your own website and a community where you are allowed to promote
your music and hint to your website. so even with a non-band myspace-account you could message thousand of users
and give them the link to your own website and "collect" them "there". still we all tried to collect them in a myspace-friendspace that today has no relevance because most people don't use myspace anymore. should we collect them now on facebook or any other network that is said to be "relevant"?
so it's always better to make promotion for the own website and today it's so easy and cheap to make a website and even a simple website looks much better than the new mysace-designs and will have a "guestbook" for comments as well.
after three years of online-promotion I really know what I'm saying and my music has received hundrets of good comments
so it obvioulsy can't be the just plain crap because I know many bands who have received almost no good feedback all these years but still I have no reachable "fans" anymore because the people have forgotten my music together with the dead of myspace and most of them doesn't log-in anymore, I don't have their private mail-adresses, they don't know my website-url because I always just have used myspace as my "homepage". so I would love to be able to reach my hundrets of fans there and they are at least fans because at least they have given me a positive feedback. I'd like to give them a little insight in new songs or to inform them about my activities but they are gone.
and even if I had used twitter...it's a fact that twitter bores the people. knowing everyday something new about celebreties, musicians etc. makes them more and more uninteresting. there must be a certain distance, in some ways you have to be there but still somehow untouchable and unknown, so that fans can project something into you and use their own fantasy, so don't be like someone of their facebook-friends and be always there. that's really important!

very best wishes to all of you!

treewhispers

you start small
gig
get some fans
gig more
more fans
sell some merch - cds
gig gig gig
get local press
keep gigging
go local beyond your town
gig and gig
sell merch
go regional
get lots of pr and press
gig gig gig
get LUCKY
get noticed
keep working hard
until you make it BIGG

[victoria stiles]

Nice thread. keep sharing everyone.

[petermichael]

OMG! responses like this assure me i have a solid future in this racket.

the OP wanted to get hits on his track. first - please disregard notions of "avoiding getting your music heard if you want to get on a label", or "making a hit is not important today" or what the hell else. these are misleading / false ideas, that have no sense of the priorities a new artist should be focusing on.

just use facts and some math and you will see that cover / remix is the best way to go to jump start your career.

1. you are currently unknown, and no one will be searching for you, unless you are gigging, (this will add a small handful of people who are searching for you IF they heard you and thought you totally kicked a$s), so yeah, they aren't searching for you, yet.

2. people go online by the millions looking for something they already had in their head. (not for you, the yet unknown artist). this means they are searching for a particular song, and will inevitably be exposed to various "related" songs / videos.

3. quality rises. period. maybe not as much as it should, but it does. be aware of not only your hits, but your feedback. be aware of all the available metrics the site hosting your media provides. on youtube i use the comment to view ratio and i think many overlook it. it's one thing to have 30/1 likes to dislikes or better, that's good and pretty much a starting point, but when you see you're getting a tremendous amount of comments along with it, that suggests people are so moved that they just had to say something about it, that is a bigger deal. those folks will remember, and / or share.

knowing the above, i would suggest you put up 128k or less quality mp3's up on youtube as videos of your best 3 originals. then make a few remixes of hot songs the have JUST been released. this will get you're style some serious plays seemingly overnight, you will get immediate feedback, and the moment someone clicks on your remix, they are now seeing a video / link to some of your original work. sure it's a piggyback, but it's tried and true. the faster the better. youtube / google is primarily still a trend based search result, so if you can put up a remix before anyone else, you will be permanently in the advantage over the rest of the field. and this will take a concentrated effort just to know what's coming, with serious rewards for the first good remix for any top tune released. period. people are looking for it.

have your tunes in their high quality format (covers included) on itunes / amazon (beatport if you have access to a label there) and DON'T HARASS ANYONE about it, but just have the link available to the stores. people aren't buying as much as they should, true, and there are way more tunes for sale than before, true, but music is being sold every minute of every day all over the world, not to mention having music available for sale is a minimum standard if you are trying to present yourself as a success, like having a basic web presence. (not to mention the invaluable learning that comes with the whole process).

(i would advise you to put your covers on a different youtube page than your originals. just keep your name the same on both, and the link will be there, and if some overzealous label shuts off your videos and youtube shuts your page off, you will have no negative record against your original tunes when it comes time to apply for partnership.)

good luck

[Paul Greenway]

Wow a lot of great info in this thread!

[Roisky]

Originally Posted by petermichael

OMG! responses like this assure me i have a solid future in this racket.

the OP wanted to get hits on his track. first - please disregard notions of "avoiding getting your music heard if you want to get on a label", or "making a hit is not important today" or what the hell else. these are misleading / false ideas, that have no sense of the priorities a new artist should be focusing on.

just use facts and some math and you will see that cover / remix is the best way to go to jump start your career.

1. you are currently unknown, and no one will be searching for you, unless you are gigging, (this will add a small handful of people who are searching for you IF they heard you and thought you totally kicked a$s), so yeah, they aren't searching for you, yet.

2. people go online by the millions looking for something they already had in their head. (not for you, the yet unknown artist). this means they are searching for a particular song, and will inevitably be exposed to various "related" songs / videos.

3. quality rises. period. maybe not as much as it should, but it does. be aware of not only your hits, but your feedback. be aware of all the available metrics the site hosting your media provides. on youtube i use the comment to view ratio and i think many overlook it. it's one thing to have 30/1 likes to dislikes or better, that's good and pretty much a starting point, but when you see you're getting a tremendous amount of comments along with it, that suggests people are so moved that they just had to say something about it, that is a bigger deal. those folks will remember, and / or share.

knowing the above, i would suggest you put up 128k or less quality mp3's up on youtube as videos of your best 3 originals. then make a few remixes of hot songs the have JUST been released. this will get you're style some serious plays seemingly overnight, you will get immediate feedback, and the moment someone clicks on your remix, they are now seeing a video / link to some of your original work. sure it's a piggyback, but it's tried and true. the faster the better. youtube / google is primarily still a trend based search result, so if you can put up a remix before anyone else, you will be permanently in the advantage over the rest of the field. and this will take a concentrated effort just to know what's coming, with serious rewards for the first good remix for any top tune released. period. people are looking for it.

have your tunes in their high quality format (covers included) on itunes / amazon (beatport if you have access to a label there) and DON'T HARASS ANYONE about it, but just have the link available to the stores. people aren't buying as much as they should, true, and there are way more tunes for sale than before, true, but music is being sold every minute of every day all over the world, not to mention having music available for sale is a minimum standard if you are trying to present yourself as a success, like having a basic web presence. (not to mention the invaluable learning that comes with the whole process).

(i would advise you to put your covers on a different youtube page than your originals. just keep your name the same on both, and the link will be there, and if some overzealous label shuts off your videos and youtube shuts your page off, you will have no negative record against your original tunes when it comes time to apply for partnership.)

good luck

Great advice! I hadn't even thought about the remix and 'related videos' thing.

[victoria stiles]

Getting your music heard by millions of fans is no longer as difficult as it used to be.

[JoeyXoto]

YouTube doesn't get you hits, it's where people go to give you hits. The hits will come from the marketing and advertising plans you put in place to direct traffic to that YouTube page/website.

Ask yourself, how do you currently promote yourself? Are you on Facebook? Soundcloud? Twitter? Soundclick? Future Producers? Myspace? Other networks...? Do you participate in forums? Do you offer advice to people in forums? Are your links visible? Are you visible?

Everything comes hand in hand.

Visibility + Credibility = Profitability.

Be Visible. Participate in communities, be it in person or over the web. Put your links in places where they matter and make sense. Don't just go spamming for hits. 1000 geniune positive hits on a track are better than 10000 people who you force to hear your track. Don't get caught up in trying to get hits. Instead, be credible for what you do. When people see you, make sure you talk with credibility, and realism. Don't be something you're not. People will buy into geniune personality.
By combining your credibility and effort in the right social sites, communities and sites, people will become interested in what you do. They will want to know more, geniunely. Rather than forcing your name over everyones shit.

Being visible consists of a few things. Use your social media platforms, if you have a personal page on facebook, make it a fan page instead (this is somewhat debatable as you are forcing people to be a fan, but as long as you market sensibly and not too in your face, you should be able to get away with it, some may disagree.) Use twitter to make short interesting comments that intrigue people, rather than "Check out my new beat yo..." - how many other chumps are doing the same thing? What makes you different?
Use Youtube to do something interesting rather than just making videos of you sittng there making beats, or just music videos. Make interesting segments of video, and make it good quality. Make sure everything you put on the web, no matter what it is, is at it's best quality.

These are just overall guidelines and some general advice really.. getting your music heard is a after thought of doing all the other important things correctly. If you have questions just ask.

[MOB]

hey guys check out this track .. !

M.O.B - Forget About The World - YouTube

[JoeyXoto]

Originally Posted by MOB

hey guys check out this track .. !

M.O.B - Forget About The World - YouTube

Lol. I love this site.

[Papanate]

You Make Threats....scary threats...with big hulking guys standing behind you who make odd grunting noises at inappropriate times.

Then you go play every nook and crany between here and BFE - and you talk to everyone on the planet who might remotely promote you - and all the while you give away your first 2 or 3 compilations free....

[Unclenny]

Interesting discussion....just read the whole thread.

I'm an older guy, a songwriter really, who's been tracking original stuff for a very long time......just for fun. For some crazy reason I have recently got it in my head to try to get my songs marketed. Go figure.

Been on Soundclick for years now with lots of that kind of success. I mean what the hell does #1 on SC Rock Unplugged really mean right? I get lots of hits.

Too old to gig but with a massive catalog. I figure I must have one good song in there somewhere.

Recently started pitching in all the usual places.

[petermichael]

could it all just come down to the combination of a musical gift and hard work. i say yes, and it's pretty simple to me.

the best single bit of advice here, contrary to popular belief and comparison to unicorns and fantasy land, is "make a damn hit". no really. i challenge anyone here to put up a hit.

the worst bit of advice, was saying that facebook was not going to be helpful, for the reason that you were limited to your own circle of friends. THE WHOLE POINT IS GETTING OUTSIDE OF THE FRIENDS YOU ALREADY HAVE. THAT IS THE VERY MECHANISM OF FACEBOOK AND THE ORIGINAL QUESTION! with a true hit, a true gem of a picture or video, the share button causes viral reaction daily, if not weekly. it's where the friend shares the video and someone sees it outside of that first circle of friends, and then it gets shared outside of that second circle, etc and you see that it has been shared hundreds or thousands of times. it is absolutely true, and happens regularly, in all circles. comedy, politics, music, etc.

obviously, video plays a part now, perhaps more than it should, but giving into that truth, and producing accordingly, you can indeed ensure the result.

i will summarize, in a simple equation, as i do feel it is really this simple, and getting simpler as society becomes more standardized.

grade any song on its hit rating (1 - 10)
grade the video associated with it on it's engagement rating (1-10)

add together for a "sharability" rating.

at a certain total number and lower, the video will not go out of your circle of friends (REGARDLESS OF HOW NICE PEOPLE ARE COMMENTING ABOUT YOUR AWESOMENESS).

at a certain total number and higher, the video will be shared outside of your circle of friends and will indeed have a "sharability" that will cause it to be shared upon hearing/seeing by a percentage of random strangers.

without debate or doubt, if you truly put together a 20. you will achieve viral awareness of your music. period. it's an open challenge for the naysayers to show me an example where it has not happened.

what you do with the viral attention after you get it is the subject of another thread.