Can somebody give me some career advice?

[dullfangs]

i'm 26 years old, multi instrumentalist wannabe-producer and i feel like i have a unique feel for music. i feel like if i dont figure out a way to do something with this i will be kicking myself in the proverbial arse down the road.

i've done the band thing a million times and it hasnt worked out for me. because i write whole songs you see. i cant find talented people willing to play pre-written parts. they all want to contribute their own material or whatever which is usually sub-par or doesn't vibe with my own stuff. i'm not trying to sound egotistical but this is just how crap has played out for me thus far.

i really, really like the idea of doing soundtrack work. i have a deep love for cinema. i really don't know how to break into this though. i've tried posting ads on craigslist and the local classifieds looking for student filmmakers that need music for their films but havent found anybody that has anything close to being ready.

i live in kirkland, washington, right by seattle, a place which is fairly conducive to the arts, i just dont know what to do. i know i need more material first of all. since beefing up my home studio i've made one demo, so you can hear the sort of stylistic qualities i gravitate towards:

Michael Gallardo on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

thats a demo track i did a few months ago. i sort of composed it stream of concious style. i have a bunch of stuff i've written in the mean time. i'm moving to a new place which will be better for recording and plan on hitting it hard then.

i just dont know what to do. i know i need to keep getting way better, cause i'm not very good at actual mixing yet but feel i have a solid ear, and some talent. looking for people with experience that can give me real honest advice. once i get more material should i look into getting a manager of some sort? or trying to maybe sign on as a songwriter/producer for an entertainment company or something? i really have no clue.

[Bobine]

I enjoyed that...cinematic for sure. (I'd be curious to play that over the famous toilet scene in Trainspotting). I'd suggest creating music for other scenes in your imaginary movie. Think about the range of emotions and energy levels that make up a film and invent music that reflects that diversity. Maybe try cutting the pieces together and playing with transistions...scenes rarely last more than a couple of minutes.
Build up a body of interesting music by working on a consistent basis over time. Put it out there and the career will follow.

[redvelvetstudios]

as for your larger questions I have little advice, however for film scoring, read on...

remember - you asked - your path to scoring film is usually some variation of the two following scenarios...

one; move to LA and work under an established composer as an assistant, do a lot of work, including writing scores (which you will not be credited for) until you have enough contacts and balls to convince someone to let you score a feature - which will most likely be some indie film no one will see... maybe... see below...

two; find indie filmmakers, convince them to let you score their film (which they might because you'll be working for free) and hope the film becomes a break out hit at sundance (clint mansell - pi).

if you want to write your own style of film score, you'll need to find indie filmmakers willing to let you do that - even john swihart, who's highly original score to Napoleon Dynamite was largely driven by the creative direction given by the film's director...

so if you get this far, here's what you have to look forward to...

if you think bands are rough wanting to contribute to your creative process just wait till you have to write music based on the (not so clear) notes from a director, film producers and studio execs... probably between 5 and 10 people who each know exactly what you should be doing...

most film composers are re-creating a previous temp score cut by a music editor, that the studio falls in love with... or they are re-creating one of their own scores - which also probably started off as a response to a temp score...

if you think writing in the context of a band with other musicians is challenging, just wait till you're writing for non-musicians who are literally your boss.

none of this addresses the actual mechanical process of writing to picture... which is a skill to be learned in it's own right.

[The Byre]

What you have posted sounds nice, but that is all. If you want to do music for film, you will have to gain a formal knowledge of orchestral music and that means studying music at one of the better colleges.

[dullfangs]

Originally Posted by The Byre

If you want to do music for film, you will have to gain a formal knowledge of orchestral music and that means studying music at one of the better colleges.

I appreciate the kind words, but I'm actually not interested in doing that sort of formal orchestral soundtrack work at all. I'm interested in the more esoteric, experimental type of soundtracks.

[redvelvetstudios]

Originally Posted by The Byre

What you have posted sounds nice, but that is all. If you want to do music for film, you will have to gain a formal knowledge of orchestral music and that means studying music at one of the better colleges.

although certainly true to the larger extent there are notable exceptions - michael brook for one... whose work I love.

Michael Brook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Michael Brook Music | The Official Website of Musician Michael Brook

Film Soundtracks & Scores

• Captive (1986) – co-writer/producer with The Edge.
• Heat (1995)
• Albino Alligator (1997)
• Affliction (1999)
• Mission Impossible 2 (2000)
• Black Hawk Down (2001) - music composed by Hans Zimmer
• charlotte sometimes (2002)
• India: Kingdom of the Tiger (2002)
• An Inconvenient Truth (2006)
• Tre (2007)
• Into the Wild (2007)
• Americanese (2008)

Soundtrack Albums

• Captive (1986 Virgin) – co-writer/producer with The Edge.
• Albino Alligator (1997 4AD) - with guest vocals by Jimmy Webb and Michael Stipe.
• Affliction (1999)
• India: Kingdom of the Tiger (2002)
• An Inconvenient Truth (2006)
• Into the Wild (2007 Lakeshore Records) - currently available only as a download.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by dullfangs

I appreciate the kind words, but I'm actually not interested in doing that sort of formal orchestral soundtrack work at all. I'm interested in the more esoteric, experimental type of soundtracks.

unfortunately even the experimental film composers have a formal background - from Glass to Mothersbaugh. Having said that there are also orchestral composers with very little in the way of training - Elfman being one.

The main issue you will come up against is almost exclusively film composers come from two background:

1. the traditional understudy route - Don Davis studied under Silvestre for example. Invariably these types either have great training themselves or, if their training was more limited, surround themselves with the right orchestrators and conductors to facilitate production. So building a "team" if you like.

2. being well known in another area - Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead is a good example. Or Clint Mansell being in electro rockers Pop Will Eat Itself. Sometimes one can move from TV composition where the emphasis on training seems to have been replaced with owning a decent facility and "knowing the right people"..... My own business partner {and indeed myself} stemmed from this environment. Him from media composition, me from a successful band.

Without either of these two credential makers you're cut off from nearly {but not quite} all of the movie and TV work out there. Being untrained and not able to use an orchestra if necessary cuts you out of a HUGE array of work out there. There are very few and far between experimental soundtracks out there - and those that are in the offing tend to go to experimental ARTISTS rather than experimental composers who'd like to cut teeth in films.

So if I was you I'd be looking to develop myself as an experimental artists and over the next few years trying to make waves that way. You stand very little chance of getting anything other than a student movie otherwise.

So perhaps a regimen of:

a) doing things the hard way. So steering away from things other people can do - Like using VST instruments or common sample packs.
b) build a facility slowly around your unique way of working
c) find a trained musician/conductor to work with. Someone with similar goals. Zimmer, Williams, Davis etc etc all have unseen cohorts who work with them. Same with Glass etc etc...
d) DO the student films - but just be choosey!
e) put out a cool underground 38 minute album on vinyl only. Get it reviewed - become "niche" and quirky.
f) do something that GET's you noticed in the right circles. The Michael Brook example is a good one - inventing the "infinite guitar" gets people talking about ya!!

and

g) you are VERY young. Don't give up if it's really what you want to do. Very very few composers get feature films at your tender age. There are exceptions but even a 35 year old film composer is young!!

Oh and remember to listen to your director carefully - even when working for free. It's THEIR music not yours.

[dullfangs]

That all makes sense. Seems the key here is networking, networking, networking. I've kind of known this, but it's definitely the one area I need the most help. Thinking about taking some classes at an art school to help facilitate this.

I appreciate all the good infos, especially the bit about me still being young lol.... I know it sounds crazy, but this hyperactive american culture i live in can make me feel kind of old even at 26.

[kas_lar]

hey dullfangs - how is it working out for you?
I'm in the same situation - > well not exactly but I find that narcoman's advice is really good.

Did you score any music yet?

[redvelvetstudios]

there's another thread going on over in the Music Computers forum on GS as well - just like this one:

orchestra piece

and here's some books...

Amazon.com: The Reel World: Scoring For Pictures-Updated And Revised Edition (Music Pro Guides) (0884088217372): Jeff Rona: Books

Amazon.com: Complete Guide to Film Scoring (Berklee Guide) (0073999494174): Richard Davis: Books

Amazon.com: American Film Music: Major Composers, Techniques, Trends, 1915-1990 (McFarland Classics) (9780786407538): William Darby, Jack Du Bois: Books

Amazon.com: The Emerging Film Composer: An Introduction to the People, Problems, and Psychology of the Film Music Business (9780615136233): Richard Bellis: Books

Amazon.com: On the Track: A Guide to Contemporary Film Scoring, Second Edition (9780415941365): Fred Karlin: Books

[dullfangs]

Originally Posted by kas_lar

hey dullfangs - how is it working out for you?
I'm in the same situation - > well not exactly but I find that narcoman's advice is really good.

Did you score any music yet?

i've talking with a friend who is a aspiring filmmaker, about directing a scene to put with the music on my myspace. then to market that on youtube and so forth. it is a start, we figure, and something we can do relatively quickly.

[redvelvetstudios]

bump - for those with an interest in film scoring / composing...

[The Byre]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

as for your larger questions I have little advice, however for film scoring, read on...

remember - you asked - your path to scoring film is usually some variation of the two following scenarios...

one; move to LA and work under an established composer as an assistant, do a lot of work, including writing scores (which you will not be credited for) until you have enough contacts and balls to convince someone to let you score a feature - which will most likely be some indie film no one will see... maybe... see below...

two; find indie filmmakers, convince them to let you score their film (which they might because you'll be working for free) and hope the film becomes a break out hit at sundance (clint mansell - pi).

if you want to write your own style of film score, you'll need to find indie filmmakers willing to let you do that - even john swihart, who's highly original score to Napoleon Dynamite was largely driven by the creative direction given by the film's director...

so if you get this far, here's what you have to look forward to...

if you think bands are rough wanting to contribute to your creative process just wait till you have to write music based on the (not so clear) notes from a director, film producers and studio execs... probably between 5 and 10 people who each know exactly what you should be doing...

most film composers are re-creating a previous temp score cut by a music editor, that the studio falls in love with... or they are re-creating one of their own scores - which also probably started off as a response to a temp score...

if you think writing in the context of a band with other musicians is challenging, just wait till you're writing for non-musicians who are literally your boss.

none of this addresses the actual mechanical process of writing to picture... which is a skill to be learned in it's own right.

And whilst we are bumping - that lot bears repeating!

Also, what Narcoman said about composers coming exclusively from two places needs repeating.

The skills involved (I get to see this only as an observer) are very specific and messing up can ruin a film. For that reason and because music forms a tiny, tiny part of the overall budget, typically between 1 and 3%, the work goes almost always to a safe pair of hands.

This need for safety and experience, means that if you were the music editor on a big budget movie, you might get to be the composer on a small budget movie. If you were just the PT opp on a mid or small budget, you might get to be composer on on a micro-budget movie. And so on. Slowly, you get to climb a very crowded ladder!