The Real Cause Of The Collapse Of The Music Industry

[MikeyMike]

I hear many people talking about how the internet has destroyed music but in actuality, it has helped music. It provides a great way to sell and advertise your product to millions of people all around the world. However, this is what killed the music industry:



Cdr's has allowed people to actually make their own cd using downloaded files stolen/payed for and bought cds. How dumb can the music industry be,lol, to allow these companies to do this to them. While they are going after people who illegally download, they need to be going after these companies. They should make it mandatory that you have a business license for recording in order to purchase cdrs. By the way, downloading a file doesn't hurt the industry, it's the burning of cds that would have initially sold in the store but now can be had for free.

[MSR74]

I would venture a guess to take this a step further and say that the INTERNET is the cause of the demise of the music industry. It is also going be the future of the music industry.

It's just a matter of time my friend....

Mick

[Dean Roddey]

Being able to burn CDs doesn't help if you don't have access to the full catalogue of the world's music to download and burn to that CD. And of course nowadays burned CDs probably are not really all that big a thing, since it probably never gets burned, but just put into iPods or similar devices.

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by MSR74

I would venture a guess to take this a step further and say that the INTERNET is the cause of the demise of the music industry. It is also going be the future of the music industry.

It's just a matter of time my friend....

Mick

The internet is not the cause. Look how much money the internet generates for businesses by connecting people in ways never before seen. Remember, the internet has existed for a long time. Only when cdrs became cheap and ready, the music industry went downhill.

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

Being able to burn CDs doesn't help if you don't have access to the full catalogue of the world's music to download and burn to that CD. And of course nowadays burned CDs probably are not really all that big a thing, since it probably never gets burned, but just put into iPods or similar devices.

Exactly my point.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

The internet is not the cause. Look how much money the internet generates for businesses by connecting people in ways never before seen. Remember, the internet has existed for a long time. Only when cdrs became cheap and ready, the music industry went downhill.

Look how much money death and sickeness generates for businesses all over the world. That doesn't mean it's a good thing necessarily. The internet helps some people, but it's been horrible for music and movies.

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

Exactly my point.

Actually, it wasn't your point, unless I'm not understanding your point.

[Scrybe]

The internet has existed for a long time, but it only really became a home-entertainment product in the average person's home around the same time that cdr's became cheaply and easily available.

The logic of your argument suggests a necessary entailment between cdr's becoming available and the music industry collapsing, but it ignores other factors (such as the popularity of and availability of access to the internet) which seem more plausible causal factors for the industry's "collapse".

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by Scrybe

The internet has existed for a long time, but it only really became a home-entertainment product in the average person's home around the same time that cdr's became cheaply and easily available.

The logic of your argument suggests a necessary entailment between cdr's becoming available and the music industry collapsing, but it ignores other factors (such as the popularity of and availability of access to the internet) which seem more plausible causal factors for the industry's "collapse".

Not hardly. Think about this. I can buy a 100 pack of cdrs for roughly $20 dollards. Download an entire album or discography for free. Make a hundred copies of those albums and sell each copy at $5 dollars a piece. WTF? Get my drift......

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by Scrybe

The internet has existed for a long time, but it only really became a home-entertainment product in the average person's home around the same time that cdr's became cheaply and easily available.

By the way, you know you are actually contradicting yourself don't you with the above statement. Funny how cdr's and internet popularity grew at the same time.

[la grange]

listeners and normalizing the copying has been responsible for the collapse.
We used to have K7 and we copied every now and then but mainly to listen to your records in your car.
There was a sens of pride to own a LP and read the cover, watch the pictures etc...
Now no ones care about it. It is all free download and I know for a fact that some people have downloaded music and still haven't listen to it a month later.
The attitude of the mass has killed the record industry as we know it, not the blank CD or the internet.

Oli

[JohnBobAudio]

i dont burn cds ever.

i just listen to them all day on my computer, or transfer them to an ipod-like-device.

so, really, CDrs and Ipods and people who just listen to music on the computer all day- ruined it?

[Dean Roddey]

Originally Posted by JohnBobAudio

i dont burn cds ever.

i just listen to them all day on my computer, or transfer them to an ipod-like-device.

so, really, CDrs and Ipods and people who just listen to music on the computer all day- ruined it?

If you are listening to illegally downloaded music, then yes, you are part of the problem and you are stealing. You can listen from a legal streaming source, which has to pay royatlies for what it streams, and that's perfectly fine.

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by JohnBobAudio

i dont burn cds ever.

i just listen to them all day on my computer, or transfer them to an ipod-like-device.

so, really, CDrs and Ipods and people who just listen to music on the computer all day- ruined it?

C'mon now. Most people who buy cd's buy them to listen in their car and to have the absolute best sound quality. There is nothing like the sound of an original cd compared to a mp3 file that have been converted by gosh knows what.

[Scrybe]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

Not hardly. Think about this. I can buy a 100 pack of cdrs for roughly $20 dollards. Download an entire album or discography for free. Make a hundred copies of those albums and sell each copy at $5 dollars a piece. WTF? Get my drift......

Yeah, I'm thinking about it. It still doesn't provide necessary entailment though. And that is what your argument would require for it to have any force. Get my drift....

[BobSchwenkler]

I'd like to suggest that what's happened to the industry might not be so much a collapse as a redistribution.

Depends on where you're looking at it from, for sure, but there are definitely people profiting off of the same technologies/trends that are perhaps causing others to sink.

[Scrybe]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

By the way, you know you are actually contradicting yourself don't you with the above statement. Funny how cdr's and internet popularity grew at the same time.

Uh, my post didn't have a contradiction in it. I said there were other factors you hadn't considered, the growth of the internet being one of them. That's entirely consistent with refuting your conclusion that cdr's killed the music industry.

And it might be funny how cdr's and internet popularity grew at the same time, but funny doesn't prove a causal relationship.

You'll have to work much harder than this if you want to convince me that cdr's and cdr's alone killed the music industry. Your current argument is just weak as hell, sorry.

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by Scrybe

Yeah, I'm thinking about it. It still doesn't provide necessary entailment though. And that is what your argument would require for it to have any force. Get my drift....

The cdr and/or dvdr companies are practically begging people to make artificial replicas of supposedly store bought cds. Hell, even Sony, I know, crazy ain't it, is selling cdrs

[chrisrnps]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

Cdr's has allowed people to actually make their own cd using downloaded files stolen/payed for and bought cds. How dumb can the music industry be,lol, to allow these companies to do this to them. While they are going after people who illegally download, they need to be going after these companies. They should make it mandatory that you have a business license for recording in order to purchase cdrs.

CD-R "Orange Book" specification published by Sony / Phillips: 1988

CD-R drives and discs become affordable to mass-market, non-professional end users: mid-1990s

Commercially-released compact disc sales peak at an adjusted $16.4 billion per annum, according to the RIAA: 1999

How could we have been so blind when it was all right there in front of us? It was those damn kids with their new-fangled Cee Dee Arr "burners" all along! Dag-nabit!

Thank God you came along and finally figured it all out! Now that's usin' yer thinkin' cap, there!

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

Not hardly. Think about this. I can buy a 100 pack of cdrs for roughly $20 dollards. Download an entire album or discography for free. Make a hundred copies of those albums and sell each copy at $5 dollars a piece. WTF? Get my drift......

Man, you are a veritable fount of well-researched information and style-guide inspiration! Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to consult with my accountant about converting all business transactions to Dollards. This truly is a new digital age in a land of opportunities. You just need to know where listen to hear it knocking!

[AudioWonderland]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

I hear many people talking about how the internet has destroyed music but in actuality, it has helped music. It provides a great way to sell and advertise your product to millions of people all around the world. However, this is what killed the music industry:



Cdr's has allowed people to actually make their own cd using downloaded files stolen/payed for and bought cds. How dumb can the music industry be,lol, to allow these companies to do this to them. While they are going after people who illegally download, they need to be going after these companies. They should make it mandatory that you have a business license for recording in order to purchase cdrs. By the way, downloading a file doesn't hurt the industry, it's the burning of cds that would have initially sold in the store but now can be had for free.

Yes, I'm sure the computer and software industries would stand by and let that happen. Its not like they are crucial to their business or anything..

tutt

The music industry does not exist in a vacuum.

[Jay-]

The industry is out of touch,
The reason its dead...

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by Scrybe

Uh, my post didn't have a contradiction in it. I said there were other factors you hadn't considered, the growth of the internet being one of them. That's entirely consistent with refuting your conclusion that cdr's killed the music industry.

And it might be funny how cdr's and internet popularity grew at the same time, but funny doesn't prove a causal relationship.

You'll have to work much harder than this if you want to convince me that cdr's and cdr's alone killed the music industry. Your current argument is just weak as hell, sorry.

Most automobile have cd players. That a fact. Very few people use ipods in their cars compared to cds to enjoy music. I never said that cdr's are the only cause but it still has the biggest effect when it comes down to actually cd sale figures.

[Scrybe]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

The cdr and/or dvdr companies are practically begging people to make artificial replicas of supposedly store bought cds. Hell, even Sony, I know, crazy ain't it, is selling cdrs

So...the existence of the cdr medium, as opposed to say individual and/or corporate behaviour is to blame for piracy? Just the cdr? Not the popularity of the internet? Or the increased bandwidth? Or any other factor? Damn, them cdr's must be like voodoo or something.


No, this argument still isn't cutting it. C'mon mate, try again, and this time try to structure your "cdrs murdered music" argument in a way that excludes other explanations. Until you do that, I'm not buying.

[donsimpson]

Long before CDRs, there were cassettes, and the music business went to great lengths to describe how they would kill the industry. I think there's still a five cent fee that goes to the RIAA for every blank cassette sold.

[juanpz]

I think that you guys/girls are getting stuck in a rut.
What do you have against the CDR?

Illegal copies of music have been made for nearly 30 years before the cd hit the market. It's called the tape, and even that didn't kill the music industry; it only fueled it.

Being able to sell media on a whole new medium presents oppurtunities that never existed. ex.) The internet, CDbaby, portable jumpdrives, DVD

Artists whine about how their record sales are down and need a easy scapegoat. Lets blame people who "pirate" music.

Archive.org is an amazing gateway for all of you (if not already known)
Here "tapers" are allowed to upload live music of BIG TIME artists, Ex.) Jack Johnson, 311, YMSB, Slightly Stoopid, SCI, Umphrey's Mcgee, Grateful Dead, Ect.. These artists, and many more, allow their music to be "traded" For FREE !!!

And you guessed it, all of these artists are very well known and sell many studio albums. These Free shows only fuel the band following and plays some reverse psychology on consumers who feel that they are obligated to support the band in buying their latest studio release since they have been treated to all these free shows.

Just another chapter in Music Business Evolution..

[Id Ridden]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

I hear many people talking about how the internet has destroyed music but in actuality, it has helped music. It provides a great way to sell and advertise your product to millions of people all around the world. However, this is what killed the music industry:



Cdr's has allowed people to actually make their own cd using downloaded files stolen/payed for and bought cds. How dumb can the music industry be,lol, to allow these companies to do this to them. While they are going after people who illegally download, they need to be going after these companies. They should make it mandatory that you have a business license for recording in order to purchase cdrs. By the way, downloading a file doesn't hurt the industry, it's the burning of cds that would have initially sold in the store but now can be had for free.

Can't say I agree with this or even understand the rest of your posts.

The internet is precisely the problem. It has caused saturation and the explosion of SO many sites of various degrees which just cause further saturation. Artists can now give away there music for free worldwide. Illegal downloading has skyrocketed. Prices have continually deteriorated for anything sell able. It has gotten to the point that there is so much music available, almost too much, that consumers should have a better choice, yet don't know where to start. It has gotten to the point that music almost seems like spam!!!

You have a million sites you are supposed to run if you are with the age, that seems to do nothing but contribute to the ever increasing bit of in your face marketing and advertising. Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, these don't seem to really help get you fans, only feed into the hype for these companies to continue making money while the artist doesn't.

Free online streaming sites pay royalties, but how much and to who...not a lot that is for sure.

It seems that simply the World is a problem and music has become nothing more then a commodity that no one really cares about, and definitely no one cares about spending much money on. People are spending $4 for some crappy phone app yet won't spend $.99 on a song.

Music is a problem. It is over saturated with crap, piled onto crap, with more crap being piled onto it. Free is out there, can't compete with free. Everything seems to be working towards a "The artist pays" model. Want a gig, just pay $10 to submit for your chance. Want a record exec to hear your music, JUST PAY!

The question is what is the industry really and where is it headed??

Is the music industry headed towards the only artists making money are the Major Label artists, because they will have control of the market and the connections and pockets to be able to actually get their artists heard and marketed widespread enough to actually dupe dummies into spending money on them. Then the other market is the industry charging independent artists or anyone with a dream to make money in music because they will try anything. I mean if all these home based make millions infomercials still get people to part with their money for hope then surely independent artists with a dream of fame and riches will surely keep coughing up money for their supposed "break".

CDR's the problem?? Please. The problems are vast and not going away anytime soon. The internet has not done anything but water down and over saturate something to the point where you have to give it away just so someone can take a piss out of your music.

[glissando]

Originally Posted by MikeyMike

I hear many people talking about how the internet has destroyed music but in actuality, it has helped music. It provides a great way to sell and advertise your product to millions of.......

balh blah blah blah...it provides a place for crappy music to get distributed and great music to get downloaded for free and destroy an industry in the process. If you work in this business, you have no respect for yourself.

[doug hazelrigg]

Originally Posted by donsimpson

Long before CDRs, there were cassettes, and the music business went to great lengths to describe how they would kill the industry. I think there's still a five cent fee that goes to the RIAA for every blank cassette sold.

Exactly correct. And you haven't seen a similar effort by the RIAA to assess a fee to every blank CDR.

It's pretty clear, free access to music has killed the industry, not any particular medium for recording it

[MikeyMike]

Originally Posted by doug hazelrigg

Exactly correct. And you haven't seen a similar effort by the RIAA to assess a fee to every blank CDR.

It's pretty clear, free access to music has killed the industry, not any particular medium for recording it

True indeed cassettes were available before cdrs but they were way more expensive and nobody was bootlegging cassetts that much as it took forever to copy.

[tsvisser]

Sony Elcaset killed the music industry, or at least its failure in catching on. If we just could have gotten to the point where Elcaset was mainstream, then we would have been able to truly have 1/4" master tape quality home recordings. CD wouldn't have been needed because it would not have provided any fidelity advances above Elcaset. With analog, comes the inherent copy protection, generational loss... You could freely swap dub tapes with your friends, and maybe even those friends to their friends, but at some point, quality will degrade, it physically takes time to copy tapes, the medium is relatively expensive... With digital, its cheap, infinitely duplicatable, nearly free storage comparatively, and only takes a few seconds to copy a song... pandoras box just sat there waiting to be opened and once it is, there is no going back. Music no longer has any commercial value, as a raw commodity. Of course new economics arise around this legacy product, such as marketing power and bundling it in new ways, but the physical disc itself... worth less than even a blank CD, at least with a blank, you can store some photos or something.

Its really simple, ban digital media and bring back Elcaset, where we might as well burn all non-authorized books and kill everyone wearing glasses or better yet, make it illegal for hard drives to spin faster than 33 1/3 rpm... that will bring the pace of piracy back down to manageable levels.