Jack White-Downloading had Cheapened Music
#1051
1st April 2012
Old 1st April 2012
  #1051
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I did clean out all the shampoos/conditioners from the shower... I mean... I paid for them... didn't I?
#1052
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
You still didn't answer the question.
Why is a question about a never going to happen hypothetical so important to you?
Probably because when you argue about real events your message fails.
#1053
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Why is a question about a never going to happen hypothetical so important to you?
Probably because when you argue about real events your message fails.
Your answering the question is not important. Forget it. What is my message, some sort of straw man that you make up? So far everything you have said fails. The only thing that doesn't is the only thing you should bother to say which I stated above. Everything else fails.
#1054
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1054
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Give it up Mark.
#1055
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
Yeah, but I bet you could watch television while you pretended to walk on those 2 thousand dollar machines, whereas if you took a walk outside you'd have to look at the world.
Are you kidding? Nobody looks at the world anymore!
Even people standing in a group don't even look at eachother... they're too busy fingering their phone device..
#1056
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
Are you kidding? Nobody looks at the world anymore!
Even people standing in a group don't even look at eachother... they're too busy fingering their phone device..
No kidding. Kids eat dinner in front of their computers, not at the dinner table anymore.
#1057
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Give it up Mark.
#1058
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1058
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
Are you kidding? Nobody looks at the world anymore!
Even people standing in a group don't even look at eachother... they're too busy fingering their phone device..
And nobody has a real conversation anymore with any sort of nuance. They post on forums all day where the forum owner collects ad revenue and sales reps market and sell products.
#1059
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
For example, the poster (UBK) who seemed to think paying for goods and services was an unnatural state of affairs that could be under threat, also doesn't offer any free products with no strings attached.

Not yet; meanwhile many of my competitors do, and to very good effect.

Note also that your example of Logic used to come in a big box, cost $1000 for one license, and if you wanted instruments you had to pay for each of them. Now it costs $199 for as many computers as your iTunes account links to and comes with every instrument and plugin under the sun. That's not because of Moore's law, that's because of the Reapers and Audacities of the world nipping at its ass. Meanwhile the free and cheap stuff keeps getting better, which is why most stuff on youtube was done on iMovie and its ilk rather than the likes of Final Cut.

My last thought in this discussion is to consider who we're talking about. People my age? No problem, we're conditioned to think a certain way. 12 year olds? Show me one who's ever paid for music or software of any type, it's alien to them. As soon as this becomes possible for anything else, they won't hesitate.

I'm in no way saying that paying is going away and being replaced by free. What I am saying is that, increasingly, free is a larger and more critical part of the conversation around goods and services.


Gregory Scott - ubk
#1060
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1060
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#1061
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1061
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
yeah... chezballs didn't work out so well either... tick, tick, tick...
#1062
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1062
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
no strawman, just facts. sorry.
#1063
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
yeah... chezballs didn't work out so well either... tick, tick, tick...
I have no idea what you're talking about.
#1064
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1064
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
no strawman, just facts. sorry.
Facts? You make less sense than "chrisoo".
#1065
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1065
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k View Post

I'm in no way saying that paying is going away and being replaced by free. What I am saying is that, increasingly, free is a larger and more critical part of the conversation around goods and services.
You would think musicians of all people could relate.

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/sloan-sch...akhaniwolf.pdf
#1066
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about.
of course not...
#1067
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1067
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#1068
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1068
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
of course not...
#1069
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post
Your posts continue to make zero sense. Did you even read that paper?

Quote:
tell me again exactly how musicians are empowered by having their stolen by greedy hypocritical tech corporations who profit from that theft?
Tell you again? That's twice you've done that straw man move.
#1070
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1070
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 
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Posts: 176

What? A musician complaining about the internet? This is news to me.
#1071
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1071
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
Your posts continue to make zero sense. Did you even read that paper?
It's Called "Why Hackers Do What They Do: Understanding Motivation and Effort in Free/Open Source Software Projects"

people VOLUNTEER to do all kinds of things that they feel are worthwhile, there are tons of non-profit groups, Open Source is another manifestation of that Human Desire to contribute, but it does not in any way replace for profit businesses nor should it. So, so what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
Tell you again? That's twice you've done that straw man move.
and twice you've refused to answer a direct question.

so yes, explain to me again exactly how musicians are empowered by having their work stolen by greedy hypocritical tech corporations who profit from that theft? go ahead. it shouldn't be that hard if you have an answer.

artists rights is what the conversation is about, so that artists rights are protected and they are compensated for their labor. I'm not sure what other point you are trying to make, but this is a conversation about artists rights for the protection of their work.

why would you not be in favor of protecting artists rights?
#1072
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1072
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
#1073
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1073
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack gear View Post

artists rights is what the conversation is about
No it isn't.
#1074
2nd April 2012
Old 2nd April 2012
  #1074
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
No it isn't.
it sure is, as per the OP nothing has cheapened music more than tech companies stealing artists work without consent or compensation and giving it away for free, and/or profiting from it via advertising revenue using the music as a loss leader.

I don't know why you would support tech companies and pirates ripping off artists and profiting from artists work illegally over supporting artists rights. could you explain that please?
#1075
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #1075
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#1076
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #1076
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Parts two and three are up, supposed to follow on by link.
#1077
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #1077
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Location: Wellington NZ
Posts: 1,375

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Parts two and three are up, supposed to follow on by link.
All 3 links at the bottom of the article are 404 (page not found).
#1078
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #1078
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I'm now guessing they might have only wanted to publish part one today. Second two parts to follow later.
I'm not sure.
#1079
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #1079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frednurk View Post
That's not what Slash is saying. And millions pay for it everyday, so therefore music must still be magical. The idea, though, that music needs money or liner notes or an album cover to be magical is ridiculous.
magical or not (which is subjective), music should be paid for when consumed and artists rights should be valued instead of allowing tech companies to profit by ripping off artists without consent or compensation.

it's just really that simple. if we don't want music cheapened, don't allow artists labor to be cheapened...
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