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| | #1 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,798
| ASCAP vs iPhone Interesting little article... also read the comments from the poeple When your phone rings, the copyright police may come calling | Entertainment & HDTV | iPhone Central | Macworld excerpt: 'A digital rights group is contesting a U.S. music industry association's assertion that royalties are due each time a mobile phone ringtone is played in public. The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP) filed suit against AT&T asserting that ringtones qualify as a public performance under the Copyright Act. ASCAP, which has 350,000 members, collects royalties and licenses public performances of works under copyright...." |
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| | #2 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Scotland
Posts: 682
| Quote:
Reminds me of a case in the UK a couple years ago where PRS tried to sue Arnold Clark (a chain of mechanics) for having the radio on so loud in the workshops that they could be heard in public. Therefore constituting a public performance of the music. Cant see it getting anywhere however. I think this further illustrates that Legal doesnt always mean Right and Illegal doesnt always mean Wrong.
__________________ "i hate it when people quote themselves..." Craig McConnell circa 2008 | |
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| | #3 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,662
| Eh, I'm not buying it. I have a hard time accepting that someone's cell phone going off is a public performance any more than the din coming out of their earpiece. Where is ASCAP going with this next? Are they going to go after teenagers driving around with the top down and the stereo up?
__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47 - with leather. You'll love it ... Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny. |
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| | #4 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 660
| Although it's a fascinating concept legally, it's really no different then radio. Ringtones are a tool used by artists and labels to help promote their artists, the point is for it to be heard by other people. The same goes for radio, artists send their stuff to radio stations to be played over the air. The majority of people who walk down the streets with earphones on listening to music play it so loud that I can hear it, does that constitute a public performance? I think it's going to boil down to better defining what a public performance is, and more then likely the artist will have to be physically present and performing in order for it to constitute as one... |
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| | #5 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,662
| Oh, well, that has never been necessary before. Every bar has an ASCAP and BMI license so they can play recorded music. The same is true with every jukebox (not that there are any left). The point will be who the intended audience is.
__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47 - with leather. You'll love it ... Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny. |
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| | #6 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central PA
Posts: 345
| Wow... that's all I have to say. So will you have a button on your phone that you can press when you are in public or by yourself? I'm guessing they'll just assume you're in public .Too bad they can't figure out how to make an honest buck... not that they ever could.
__________________ When your horse dies, get off it... |
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| | #7 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,480
| Quote:
Though I do agree with you, songwriters do get paid for the teenager blasting their stereo from the car wether it's from CD sales or performance royalties on radio. And since we get paid from ringtones already I'm guessing it will be covered under fair use. I'd rather see ASCAP go after ISP's so we can all get paid from illegal downloads. | |
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| | #8 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: silver lake, ca
Posts: 2,927
| this is disappointing. rigntones are paid for by the user, including the publishing mechanical at a fixed stat rate. this is a reach under the best case scenario. not that I think the RIAA's moves have been particularly genius - but would it be asking to much for ASCAP/BMI and the RIAA to all have a unified policy for digital copyright issues? the ironic thing about the whole PB thing, is that not only were the labels loosing money from each illegal download, so were the publishers. I haven't looked to see if ASCAP was on the RIAA bandwagon with the labels, but you would have thought for sure Harry Fox would have gotten into the act on behalf of their clients. Try weasling out of publishing roylaties owed to Harry Fox, good luck with that.
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| | #9 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Carolina Guy
Posts: 644
| Go ASCAP!!!! I hope they collect $.001 everytime a phone rings. Nah... that wouldn't work. How about an additional dollar for every ringtone sold. Put that in a pot and pass it out. What would that be $1 billion extra dollars a year? Just think about how many musicians that would feed.
__________________ Joe Miller - A noivce by choice... Composer/Guitarist/GearSlut "Wear the white belt... carry an empty cup.. Open your mind to learning as though for the first time." Zen Guitar pg. 26 - in honor of Philip Sudo, author and Sensei |
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| | #10 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Carolina Guy
Posts: 644
| Quote:
Why not?
__________________ Joe Miller - A noivce by choice... Composer/Guitarist/GearSlut "Wear the white belt... carry an empty cup.. Open your mind to learning as though for the first time." Zen Guitar pg. 26 - in honor of Philip Sudo, author and Sensei | |
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| | #11 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: silver lake, ca
Posts: 2,927
| because every time its played on tv there's advertising (or licensing/subscription) revenue being created for the performance. with the ringtone, the revenue trail ends with the end user who paid for it. I understand and support people getting compensated every time there is new revenue or money changing hands - this is why artists get paid publishing from radio airplay. the labels supply the master for free, but the writers need to be compensated as well.
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| | #12 |
| Gear addict Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 430
| I never understood why when a doctor (or other business) hangs a print of a copyrighted painting in his office he doesn't have to pay royalties to some artist's organization because the painting is publicly exhibited. Are visual artists somehow entitled to less compensation than audio artists? Of course I know the practical answer, but it's still an interesting comparison. Regards, John |
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| | #13 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,798
| Quote:
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| | #14 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,662
| Quote:
As far as the ISPs goes, I agree more and more as time goes on. Illegal downloads are a big part of any ISP's product. ISPs profit by turning a blind eye. Unfortunately, they're also protected under the DMCA.
__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47 - with leather. You'll love it ... Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny. | |
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| | #15 |
| Gear Head Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 69
| Most ringtones are more expensive that the full mp3 @ iTunes. If I buy a ringtone, why the hell should I pay everytime someone calls me? And some people in this board get upset when I call the industry greedy. |
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| | #16 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Carolina Guy
Posts: 644
| Quote:
People always act like PROs would start sending them a bill. Geez... Don't you understand that ALL (or 99%) of the money you "pay" for that ringtone stays in the pockets of corporations like Verizon. Why are you attempting to starve the creator of the music and protect the gross profits of the distribution channel?
__________________ Joe Miller - A noivce by choice... Composer/Guitarist/GearSlut "Wear the white belt... carry an empty cup.. Open your mind to learning as though for the first time." Zen Guitar pg. 26 - in honor of Philip Sudo, author and Sensei | |
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| | #17 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: silver lake, ca
Posts: 2,927
| that's right - the labels surrender royalties on the master in exchange for promotion, but the writers get paid - if the writer is also the artist, then the artist would be getting paid as well.
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| | #18 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: silver lake, ca
Posts: 2,927
| Quote:
The licensor agrees to pay the full stat mechanical (the writers/publishers) out of their 50% and the carrier pays for all delivery, hosting and billing costs from their 50%. These deals are closer to record sales than PR licenses.
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| | #19 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,807
| What's interesting is not how that battle will end -- we know that -- but that it is there. It reflects that all aspects of music distribution are investigated right now. Every player rethinks his role and strategy. Because there's a growing awareness that music suddenly may become very valuable again. |
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| | #20 |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Scotland
Posts: 682
| We dont know that, I could make strong cases for both sides of the arguement.
__________________ "i hate it when people quote themselves..." Craig McConnell circa 2008 |
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| | #21 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,807
| Quote:
Bet you also could make a 'strong case' that I should pay Yoko Ono and/or the ghost of Michael Jackson's $1 if I whistle Yesterday on the street. | |
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| | #22 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Scotland
Posts: 682
| Quote:
I'm not disagreeing that the outcome is likey to be in favour of those who make ringtones/ distribute them etc. I am arguing that we dont know that for sure however. There's a trend here of teenagers and kids playing their MP3 ringtones full blast on public transport for the whole bus/train to hear. If the bus was playing a radio station rather than it being a kids phone I would expect the artist who's track is being played on the radio to be paid. Surely with your "the decade of piracy is over..." point of view where all artists are getting paid, you would agree with this?
__________________ "i hate it when people quote themselves..." Craig McConnell circa 2008 | |
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| | #23 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,807
| Quote:
'IF the bus was...' Well, it isn't. The (ab)use you describe is unplanned and highly unintentional -- at least to the listeners. In fact, it would be just as (un)reasonable if the artist should pay damages to the victims. But though this use isn't 'fair' in the normal sense of the word, I would definitely call it Fair in the legal sense. No need to be anal. Nobody should be payed twice. Not even authors. :) | |
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| | #24 | |
| Lives for gear Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,807
| Quote:
However, going after ISP's IS the right way. They make 30-50% of their income from selling access to stolen property and must be stopped. Let us not talk 'freedom' and 'privacy' here... We all agree that they should block child pornography to protect our children. In the same way, we have to make them block pirates to protect our culture. | |
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