The Pirate FAQ

[author]

Here's all you need to know about dfegad pirates, piracy supporters, and their pathetic excuses:

Following a recent earthquake in Italy, 56 Italian musicians recorded a charity single to help raise relief funds. The resulting "Domani 21/4/09" was distributed online for roughly $2.70, but over two million copies have been illegally downloaded since its release. "This time, (the pirates) aren't going against the interests of the hated music majors," says the song's dismayed producer, Caterina Caselli, "but against tens of thousands of citizens who have to start from scratch after having lost everything." [Variety.com, originally posted by adpz]

Today, I answered a piracy supporter here on GS. I won't do that anymore. Just like I don't communicate with murderers, pedophiles and heroin dealers.

Maybe you should use the quote above next time a piracy supporter wants to justify his crimes?

Just a suggestion...

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by author

"This time, (the pirates) aren't going against the interests of the hated music majors,"

I think this is a broad and generally untrue statement. People aren't downloading tunes for free because they hate the majors, they're doing it because they can get what they want for free. Simple as that. The internet is kinda like a 365 day per year 24/7 riot going on where a whole bunch of people are looting. There are always the good the bad and the ignorant.

Originally Posted by author

Today, I answered a piracy supporter here on GS. I won't do that anymore. Just like I don't communicate with murderers, pedophiles and heroin dealers.

Again a very broad statement, how do you know you don't communicate with the likes of murderers etc. Do you know the exact background of everyone you deal with? I certainly don't!!

Don't get me wrong, I do not support piracy in any form, it's just I don't support broad sweeping generalisations either.

[author]

Originally Posted by jaykay

I think this is a broad and generally untrue statement. People aren't downloading tunes for free because they hate the majors, they're doing it because they can get what they want for free.

That statement [This time, (the pirates) aren't going against the interests of the hated music majors] isn't mine, and I completely agree with you. Pirates are thieves, and that's that. If they could steal your car without consequences, we know they would.

Originally Posted by jaykay

Again a very broad statement, how do you know you don't communicate with the likes of murderers etc.

Oh, please... Do you want me to clutter that sentence by adding stuff like: 'willingly', 'knowingly'?

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by author

That statement [This time, (the pirates) aren't going against the interests of the hated music majors] isn't mine, and I completely agree with you. Pirates are thieves, and that's that. If they could steal your car without consequences, we know they would.

What a load of bullshit.

A large majority of my friends are music pirates, and they KNOW I don't lock the doors on my car AND that I would just laugh it off if they took my car for a few days. (I almost never drive, no inconvenience to me). I leave my house doors open/unlocked when I'm at home, and most of them know where I keep a key outside as well.

None of them have done it. Odd. None of them have stolen my belongings or killed any pets, or sullied my laundry etc...


The difference is that they know if they TAKE something from me or DESTROY something of mine, I no longer have it. If they pirate music, MORE PEOPLE HAVE THE MUSIC. Taking my car defers possession, piracy increases possession. These are very different concepts that most people recognize without realizing it.

Piracy harms people because it increases the availability of a product which should be exclusive to the purchasers. Theft harms people because it deprives the purchasers of the item. They are wrong for different reasons.


Your statement is like saying "Anyone who gets a speeding ticket will rape your children if you let them babysit". All people don't break laws because they're sociopaths, they generally break laws due to ignorance.

[kafka]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

The difference is that they know if they TAKE something from me or DESTROY something of mine, I no longer have it. If they pirate music, MORE PEOPLE HAVE THE MUSIC. Taking my car defers possession, piracy increases possession. These are very different concepts that most people recognize without realizing it.

Piracy harms people because it increases the availability of a product which should be exclusive to the purchasers. Theft harms people because it deprives the purchasers of the item. They are wrong for different reasons.

Umm, umm, this is a very good point.

[spaceman]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

What a load of bullshit.


The difference is that they know if they TAKE something from me or DESTROY something of mine, I no longer have it. If they pirate music, MORE PEOPLE HAVE THE MUSIC. Taking my car defers possession, piracy increases possession. These are very different concepts that most people recognize without realizing it.

Piracy harms people because it increases the availability of a product which should be exclusive to the purchasers. Theft harms people because it deprives the purchasers of the item. They are wrong for different reasons.

No, i don't agree. People that wouldn't steal a car do pirate, because... it doesn't feel wrong. FEEL is the magic word. When you steal a physical object, you're in general more psychologicaly conscious about your act.. You see yourself doing the act, you feel it physically, you see the object you're stealing being physically changed from its initial status. It feels real.

On the internet, you don't really see your actions, you do'nt really see the consequence of your actions, it's all abstract. Just clicking with a mouse on a screen to get that piece of music or software doesn't feel wrong. Therefore it's much easier to rationalize your action with all sorts of arguments... It's much harder to rationalize when your actions are physically bigger.

This guy explains it really well : Dan Ariely on our buggy moral code | Video on TED.com

[author]

Originally Posted by spaceman

People that wouldn't steal a car do pirate, because... it doesn't feel wrong.

Neither does stealing cars if you can do it in a socially accepted way, without any fear for consequences -- AND if you have learned to justify your crime.

Cars want to be free, you know.

[Majestikc]

This is SUCH a "grey" topic there's almost no point in arguing about it.
It's like debating whether a man who steals a loaf of bread to feed his hungry children is a thief and a criminal and should have his hands cut off etc, just because he "STOLE" and "stealing is stealing".


And the point above about the fact that more people have access to sounds and software that otherwise would only be available to the privileged rich few is very important, now more people who are financially screwed over can obtain the same software and start making decent music.....ironically there decent music will no doubt get pirated.But there you go, use pirate software to have your good music pirated, it shouldn't be about the money anyway.

If we could adopt a more open source approach to music software and start getting some really good software out there that isn't financially motivated, the entire music world would most likely be better off for it.
Not to mention the entire world in general.

[tamasdragon]

But what you say is a dream. Do you really think that it should be free? And what about the guy/guys who make that software? Now what about his/hers living? Do they get food for free? No.
There is always some money involved at a level. This free everything is non-existent. It cannot be done, unless of course you agree with that your work should be free too.
I'm not argue with that the current business model is wrong, but come on, "should be free" is completely wrong too.
TD

[chrisso]

Oh man this debate is getting so skewed.
When my work is pirated it does badly effect me as much as someone 'borrowing' my car for several days without me giving my permission.
Also, I'm 50 years old, I've been into music since I was a school kid, and earned peanuts for the first few years i was a professional musician.
Please don't tell me buying music (on CD or iTune) is for the rich or privileged only.
This is utter bolony.
Music lovers and music makers have done what they've needed to do for many years to buy and use music products legally.
I'm sorry I just don't buy the concept that suddenly music is available to people who couldn't afford it before.
In fact, they are using the money they should have spent on buying their music legitimately for other means, like purchasing good quality computers and internet equipment.
Which actually puts a lie to the notion that 'financially screwed over' people are suddenly enjoying music they couldn't afford before, because they now need fancy computers and a fast ISP to download it illegally.
Sorry.... it's BS. tutt

[Volodia]

Originally Posted by Majestikc

And the point above about the fact that more people have access to sounds and software that otherwise would only be available to the privileged rich few is very important, now more people who are financially screwed over can obtain the same software and start making decent music.....ironically there decent music will no doubt get pirated.But there you go, use pirate software to have your good music pirated, it shouldn't be about the money anyway.

If we could adopt a more open source approach to music software and start getting some really good software out there that isn't financially motivated, the entire music world would most likely be better off for it.
Not to mention the entire world in general.

Good music isn't about software . There are lots of free options if you want to . The fact it's software make people forget that there are other people making it and trying to make a living with it . There's no free lunch . you're hurting someone whatever you think of it .
And the "privileged" you talk about worked to be able to afford their software . I worked all summer in a factory to afford my first bass and amp and didn't complain about it .
IF you really want to make music ,you find ways ,there's no excuse

[Majestikc]

What I meant is that some people are in situations and certain countries (we don't all live in the almighty u.s.a) where the opportunities are far and few between as it is, and the software is VERY expensive.
So maybe a guy pirates a daw and some plugins and because of that actually ends up making some money where he can now go out and buy the legal copies of what he used to make money in the first place.That way every one wins.
Whereas if there were no such thing as piracy,both that guy AND the software company would be loosing out, no one would be bennefitting from anything.
In south africa the Rand to the Dollar is 10 to 1.
So for a $500 plugin that's R5000.The avareage south african working a modest job is LUCKY to make half that a month.
SO for Sonar 8 and 1 decent plugin your looking at over R10 000.
Not too mention how badly we get raped with the actuall hardware you might need (not too mention how bad our internet and the price for it is here, or the price of pc's and internet gear in general etc.).
So to set up a little budget home studio for purely personal use you're looking at at least R50 000 just to mess around with your own demo's.
If you want to really get serious and do a proper studio where you can record bands and make a living off it.............I hope your surname is Rockeffeller.And good luck finding the bands to actually come record and pay you antyhing.

So in a country like this, actually buying software is almost stupid, where the price of food and petrol is so high.Yet we still do as, much as we can afford to.

Everything is debatable from YOUR point of view.

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Oh man this debate is getting so skewed.
When my work is pirated it does badly effect me as much as someone 'borrowing' my car for several days without me giving my permission.
Also, I'm 50 years old, I've been into music since I was a school kid, and earned peanuts for the first few years i was a professional musician.
Please don't tell me buying music (on CD or iTune) is for the rich or privileged only.
This is utter bolony.
Music lovers and music makers have done what they've needed to do for many years to buy and use music products legally.
I'm sorry I just don't buy the concept that suddenly music is available to people who couldn't afford it before.
In fact, they are using the money they should have spent on buying their music legitimately for other means, like purchasing good quality computers and internet equipment.
Which actually puts a lie to the notion that 'financially screwed over' people are suddenly enjoying music they couldn't afford before, because they now need fancy computers and a fast ISP to download it illegally.
Sorry.... it's BS. tutt

Most major metropolitan areas are teeming with free, fast wifi, and you can get a laptop on craigslist for <$100. Hell, I've got FREE laptops on freecycle for family members (who are still using them!).

Where I sit this very moment, in a relatively quiet suburb, there are 4 open wifi networks >7mb and 3 of them are intentionally public. It's that way in nearly every major city I've visited (>25 since december due to my job)

Computers are cheap, and internet is easy to find free (legally), assuming it's not included for free in your dorm!

---

Edit -

Music IS for the rich only in many countries. Not everyone lives in the first world and can afford the luxuries that we take for granted.

Those 'peanuts' you mention having earned your first years as a musician IS being rich in many countries. Hell, if i could keep making what I make regardless of where I lived... I'd move overseas in a heartbeat. Low-middle class in american, but I'd be insanely rich over in southeast asia or africa... I've been to both and felt like donald trump only holding enough money to buy me a concert ticket back in america!

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by author

Neither does stealing cars if you can do it in a socially accepted way, without any fear for consequences -- AND if you have learned to justify your crime.

Cars want to be free, you know.

I'd hate to live in your world, where everyone is intrinsically evil and would commit every and any crime if they were given the chance. The fact that you think this is true means that you feel the same way about yourself.

Not everyone is a sociopath... in fact, very few people are.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

What a load of bullshit.

A large majority of my friends are music pirates, and they KNOW I don't lock the doors on my car AND that I would just laugh it off if they took my car for a few days. (I almost never drive, no inconvenience to me). I leave my house doors open/unlocked when I'm at home, and most of them know where I keep a key outside as well.

None of them have done it. Odd. None of them have stolen my belongings or killed any pets, or sullied my laundry etc... laws because they're sociopaths, they generally break laws due to ignorance.

that's because your friends have no idea of the damage they are doing. Your friends are the very twats who've helped to unravel this industry at one level - to be sure piracy isn't the only issue we face.

Music piracy - It is stealing - i grow very tired of pointing out that in law theft is NOT described as "depriving someone of goods" - it's stated very clearly in many texts as removing someones property, intellectual or otherwise, without specific permission or compensation.

Like ripping of science, or inventions or stealing a copy of a movie script.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

Not everyone is a sociopath... in fact, very few people are.

when it comes to illegal downloading of music, movies and software they are. My father does it all the time and he thinks it's funny that i get angry at him. Such is your attitude towards this oft yanked story..... Sorry man - YOURS is the attitude that isn't terrible - especially to someone who pays employees wages out of what he earns from music..... My product, my right to protection.... yet you friends don't give a **** about my rights and you/they have NO respect for intellectual property. You'd have prior published Shannon without doing the work if you could have gotten away with it......

Stealing music? Same as cheating in exams - you don't deserve it.

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Music piracy - It is stealing - i grow very tired of pointing out that in law theft is NOT described as "depriving someone of goods" - it's stated very clearly in many texts as removing someones property, intellectual or otherwise, without specific permission or compensation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowling...d_States_(1985

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by narcoman

when it comes to illegal downloading of music, movies and software they are. My father does it all the time and he thinks it's funny that i get angry at him. Such is your attitude towards this oft yanked story..... Sorry man - YOURS is the attitude that isn't terrible - especially to someone who pays employees wages out of what he earns from music..... My product, my right to protection.... yet you friends don't give a **** about my rights and you/they have NO respect for intellectual property. You'd have prior published Shannon without doing the work if you could have gotten away with it......

Stealing music? Same as cheating in exams - you don't deserve it.

What's with insinuating that I pirate anything?

You need to go back and read more clearly, as is obviously the case by the rest of your reply as well.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

What's with insinuating that I pirate anything?

You need to go back and read more clearly, as is obviously the case by the rest of your reply as well.

very lame ..... very lame indeed.

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by narcoman

very lame ..... very lame indeed.

Yeah, I agree. Replying to someone's post to knock down a strawman, then insinuate that the poster is a pirate.

Excellent trolling tactics.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowling...d_States_(1985

not a precedent so caries no weight.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

Yeah, I agree. Replying to someone's post to knock down a strawman, then insinuate that the poster is a pirate.

Excellent trolling tactics.

You defended piracy - your mates more specifically. Your posts are lame and easily ridiculed...sorry bro'

you lose......

and if you're too stupid to substitute "your friends" for anything pointed at YOU when all and sundry can see AND read between the lines then more fool you.

As for trolling? Piracy has made an impact in to my business..... it's been responsible for halving my turnover. .... my clients budgets are slashed - why? They tell me it's because they fear the impact of piracy..... I work in media outsourcing - i own one of the biggest media outsource companies in the UK ents industry. I've had to let people go - people who have families and kids.... people who I paid very well indeed who now don't have a job. Why? Because the effects of piracy have DIRECTLY affected what i can and cannot do.

So don't fekkin come in here shouting out "troll" with your laymans perception of the industry.

[soulsenseii]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Oh man this debate is getting so skewed.
When my work is pirated it does badly effect me as much as someone 'borrowing' my car for several days without me giving my permission.
Also, I'm 50 years old, I've been into music since I was a school kid, and earned peanuts for the first few years i was a professional musician.
Please don't tell me buying music (on CD or iTune) is for the rich or privileged only.
This is utter bolony.
Music lovers and music makers have done what they've needed to do for many years to buy and use music products legally.
I'm sorry I just don't buy the concept that suddenly music is available to people who couldn't afford it before.
In fact, they are using the money they should have spent on buying their music legitimately for other means, like purchasing good quality computers and internet equipment.
Which actually puts a lie to the notion that 'financially screwed over' people are suddenly enjoying music they couldn't afford before, because they now need fancy computers and a fast ISP to download it illegally.
Sorry.... it's BS. tutt

Well, want to talk about cars? Have you ever bought one without even looking at it or driving it a couple of miles?
Music sharing has been the best thing to happen for me. Now I can "see the car", and "drive it" before I buy it, because I live in a small town without a record store. And if your music is good, you can bet that I will travel a great distance just to watch you play live, and i'll buy your t-shirt. And I'll buy your record. OVER THE INTERNET.

Also, the internet has exposed millions of artists and bands that otherwise would be totally unknown, or only known in their town. So, in a way, the internet is pushing the industry forward, not killing it. The big problem here are the greedy musicians, like yourself, that talk about money instead of talking about what matters - the music! OIr did you get into this business to make alot of money?

If your're good at what you do, you will be recognised and will earn good money, don't worry.

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by narcoman

You defended piracy - your mates more specifically. Your posts are lame and easily ridiculed...sorry bro'

you lose......

and if you're too stupid to substitute "your friends" for anything pointed at YOU when all and sundry can see AND read between the lines then more fool you.

Defend piracy!?

As I said, you need to go back and read my post... I'll make it more easy for you in fact, since this seems to be difficult for you.

edit: Keep in mind I added nothing to this post below in context, as it was quoted by spaceman. I find it funny that your quote, however, managed to cut off the part you obviously have missed or ignored.

What a load of bullshit.

A large majority of my friends are music pirates, and they KNOW I don't lock the doors on my car AND that I would just laugh it off if they took my car for a few days. (I almost never drive, no inconvenience to me). I leave my house doors open/unlocked when I'm at home, and most of them know where I keep a key outside as well.

None of them have done it. Odd. None of them have stolen my belongings or killed any pets, or sullied my laundry etc...


The difference is that they know if they TAKE something from me or DESTROY something of mine, I no longer have it. If they pirate music, MORE PEOPLE HAVE THE MUSIC. Taking my car defers possession, piracy increases possession. These are very different concepts that most people recognize without realizing it.

Piracy harms people because it increases the availability of a product which should be exclusive to the purchasers. Theft harms people because it deprives the purchasers of the item. They are wrong for different reasons.


Your statement is like saying "Anyone who gets a speeding ticket will rape your children if you let them babysit". All people don't break laws because they're sociopaths, they generally break laws due to ignorance.

Does that make my stance more clear for you?

Piracy is wrong, clearly... but the supposition that all pirates are sociopaths, and that downloading a song and stealing a car are the same thing are both completely and utter nonsense.

-- Also note that I didn't "defend" anyone. I offered anecdotal evidence that not all music pirates are sociopaths. Hardly a defense as I admit their guilt as a premise! --

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

Does that make my stance more clear for you?

Piracy is wrong, clearly... but the supposition that all pirates are sociopaths, and that downloading a song and stealing a car are the same thing are both completely and utter nonsense.

okay - then WE agree but your saying your mates aren't sociopaths?

They just don't KNOW they are - they think that what they're doing is acceptable behavior. It isn't. Intellectual sociopaths .... - cuz it's certainly antisocial tendencies against those of us whos sole income is from pirate-able goods. They're stopping us earning a living.....

Sorry for going off at you ..... it's the idea of offering any moral protection to piracy that i object to.

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by narcoman

okay - then WE agree but your saying your mates aren't sociopaths?

They just don't KNOW they are - they think that what they're doing is acceptable behavior. It isn't.

Sorry for going off at you ..... it's the idea of offering any moral protection to piracy that i object to.

I don't think you understand what a sociopath is, and the reach of what 'author' was implying earlier in this thread. Someone who does _something_ despite knowing it's wrong is not a sociopath. Someone who does _everything_ with no clear moral objections is more likely to be classified a sociopath (and still not necessarily so!).

FWIW, I've had long discussion with some of my friends about piracy, and I honestly don't think any of them believe it's wrong. I find that very sad, but I suspect that the weak ethical base they rely upon is common in american society.

But, weak ethics do not a sociopath make.

[kafka]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

Piracy is wrong, clearly... but the supposition that all pirates are sociopaths, and that downloading a song and stealing a car are the same thing are both completely and utter nonsense.

-- Also note that I didn't "defend" anyone. I offered anecdotal evidence that not all music pirates are sociopaths. Hardly a defense as I admit their guilt as a premise! --

Honestly, my reading of HobbyCore's post was pretty much what he says here. He's offering a perspective on the psychology of downloading - and not a defense of it. Understanding why people commit a crime is key to preventing it.

[author]

Originally Posted by kafka

Understanding why people commit a crime is key to preventing it.

I sympathize with this view. But unfortunately, there' only one effective key to prevent crime:

Fear of punishment.

Every government in the world have realized that a long time ago.

Internet traffic in Sweden went down 30% after the new Swedish Anti Pirate law. For one reason only: Fear of punishment.

I really, really wish it wasn't like that.

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by author

Here's all you need to know about dfegad pirates, piracy supporters, and their pathetic excuses:

Following a recent earthquake in Italy, 56 Italian musicians recorded a charity single to help raise relief funds. The resulting "Domani 21/4/09" was distributed online for roughly $2.70, but over two million copies have been illegally downloaded since its release. "This time, (the pirates) aren't going against the interests of the hated music majors," says the song's dismayed producer, Caterina Caselli, "but against tens of thousands of citizens who have to start from scratch after having lost everything." [Variety.com, originally posted by adpz]

Today, I answered a piracy supporter here on GS. I won't do that anymore. Just like I don't communicate with murderers, pedophiles and heroin dealers.

Maybe you should use the quote above next time a piracy supporter wants to justify his crimes?

Just a suggestion...

You don´t talk to murderers? What if your tax money funds wars? What does that make you?

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by author

I sympathize with this view. But unfortunately, there' only one effective key to prevent crime:

Fear of punishment.

Every government in the world have realized that a long time ago.

Internet traffic in Sweden went down 30% after the new Swedish Anti Pirate law. For one reason only: Fear of punishment.

I really, really wish it wasn't like that.

You are a really scary person