I steal music.

[banevt]

I'm so tired of this topic on this site. People just arguing about who's right and who's entitled to what. On one side you have someone who thinks they are entitled to free music and on the other side you have someone who thinks they are entitled to large sums of money for their music or from charging others to make their music. You won't stop people from stealing anything. People steal anything and everything from each other. People have been stealing land, food, money or whatever is considered valuable since the dawn of time. Basically anything and everything they can from each other. Sometimes they even make it accepted, like stealing a whole continent from a native people who didn't understand how a person could "own" land. The climate is changing. I've been working in the music industry and actually consider myself lucky for having been able to do so but mostly for the experiences I've been able to gain. I've barely made enough to support myself from it but I consider myself lucky and that is really all I ask. Even though some of the music I've worked on has made millions for other people. The funny thing is what it takes to support oneself is very relative. I guess some people consider things necessary that are luxury to others. I really think the climate is changing, and as always things are balancing out. Hot air rises, cool water sinks, mountains crumble and land collides to make new mountains. This usually involves a lot of destruction but there is a constant balancing act nature performs. It's all a constant struggle for equilibrium. We are probably in for a period of time when the value of music is in a decline and that puts all the services to create it at a decline as well. As far as the value of music is concerned we really have no one to blame but ourselves because it's the people making music who decide that a song that sounds more like another song that's a hit is a better way to make money, or that editing it to cookie cutter perfection is the way to go, or even selling it to all or any commercial on tv or radio is the way to go. I think there was a time when a band would never consider selling their music to commercials or a film that didn't meet their artistic values. Eh, I should just stop now. I don't have anything new to offer except I'm tired of seeing people fight over it like animals and degrade each other instead of trying to work together to find a better way for all of us to come to a better compromise.

PS
I think its interesting that in an earlier post someone said they felt that whether or not someone got a book from a torrent or a library the world was probalby better off that this person read the book. I don't know why that is any different for music on either side of this argument.

[triez]

Originally Posted by banevt

On one side you have someone who thinks they are entitled to free music and on the other side you have someone who thinks they are entitled to large sums of money for their music or from charging others to make their music.

I haven't seen a single post in any of these threads where anyone has said that they feel that they are entitled make "large sums of money" for their music. I have seen a lot of people saying that they want to make a fair living from their work.

[banevt]

right. no one said "large sums of money" my bad.

[Denny McNerney]

Originally Posted by jihadjoe75

Work is slow right now and I feel like ranting...

I'm a college student who makes $8 an hour for my campuses IT support dept and quite frankly, I cannot afford to pay $10-$20 for a CD.

when i hear reasoning like that, i usually ask..."and how much did you spend at starbucks today?"

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by Denny McNerney

when i hear reasoning like that, i usually ask..."and how much did you spend at starbucks today?"

I do too... the response is usually "Starbucks? I can't even afford my rent!"

[dominic hoenig]

ive been a student for the past 2 years in response to the first post.

as im a practicing musician, i manage to do this.

i pay £500 a month in rent, around £180 a month bills. and then around £30 a week for travel and usually £50 a week on food.

i work for 35 hours a week for american express (admittedly for a nice amount of £££)

i then also intern at a studio for 25 hours a week, doing all the faff the big guy doesn't want to do. go team !

i also attend my degree course for 16 hours a week.

and i still buy ALL my music. i refuse to download illegally. all of my software on my mac is 100% legit as well.

and no! i wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, it's all hard earned and i run a tight budget to able to do what i want to do !

it's my passion and i show it respect. i believe in karma with these things.

[bleepbleep]

hey Dominic,

good on you, sounds like you got what it takes to succeed, good luck mate

[dominic hoenig]

Originally Posted by bleepbleep

hey Dominic,

good on you, sounds like you got what it takes to succeed, good luck mate

thankyou! i really do believe in you you get what you give, it's been true for me so far !


if i can't afford to buy a cd i just listen to whatevers available by the artist via purevolume myspace - you name it! - rather than downloading it without any intention of buying it.

plus i am a junkie for owning things as well.

[old_skul]

[old]Why, in my day, we had to shoplift our music![/old]

[lakeshorephatty]

This subject will never be agreed upon by people because we are all so different.

1. Our take on what makes "art" or "good music" will likely differ greatly from person to person. For me personally more great art has been created by an artist that gets to live comfortably than not, but this opinion will differ.

2. People's opinion on the value of recorded music will differ.

3. People's age/perspective/vested interest/background will cause large differences in opinion.

On these subjects I tend to always be leaning on the side of those who look at the stealing as morally wrong, and robbing great potential from music. But i will not use the word "industry" because most of what i associate with that word is the anthesis of what drives compelling music. There is a large industry surrounding todays best artists but all i will agree on is that the industry aspect allows a greater number of these artists to flourish, not that they would not exist at all without the surrounding industry.

I think 15% of the music i hear really moves me, but thats 15% of a large pool thanks to the music industry. So thank you for that! I am grateful for it.

Now the confessionary portion. I personally have purchased thousands upon thousands of cd's, and at least 50 albums online as i've started to be comfortable with the quality of some of them, but in my collection of music I am sure there are dozen's of albums that were not legally purchased. Its wrong and I admit it. I continue to purchase a couple of albums every month as i always have, but the nature of even my generation (I'm 28) is such that I have some of the music that floats around out there. Some of it I even love dearly and have not purchased.

I do purchase more music and have purchased more than any typical consumer, probably 100x more, so although I feel slightly guilty I also feel pulled along with the heard, and i feel like i have given back fairly to recorded music, which I love dearly.

I don't feel any better now, just wanted to share that while we're on topic : )

[colinmiller]

Originally Posted by BrianT

And therein lies the whole secret to the OP's rationalization of stealing. Since he is magnanimous enough to give away his music (which is BTW not very good in his own estimation), he can feel better about taking music from other people. The fact that those other people do not wish to give their music away is thereby rendered irrelevant.

Since he gives his bad music away for free, they should give him their good music for free as well.

Humans are clever creatures. They can make sense out of the most senseless of their own actions.

Exactly.

Except you forgot to mention the OPs other justification. Which is that because he has not worked a whole career to develop a craft and have to support a family, because he works a unskilled job at $8 hour, it's OK to steal from others who work harder than he does. And after all, according to him art was not meant to be anything more than a hobby. So maybe we can all work at fast food restraunts for $8hr and steal music. Oops, there wouldn't be any to steal then would there?

When I was in college I think I made something like $5/hour for an unskilled job. And CDs were the same price then as they are now despite people making more income. We didn't steal and then try to justify it as not having the money. We saved up and learened to value things instead of just feeling like we have entitlement to it. I want a Farrari but I can't afford one because they charge too much money. Maybe I should go steal one. I' be more than happy to attempt to build cars and give them away for free afterall....

[Croaker]

Originally Posted by jihadjoe75

[B]

I'm a college student who makes $8 an hour for my campuses IT support dept and quite frankly, I cannot afford to pay $10-$20 for a CD. Yep, I'm a pirate and I have been for a very long time. Although I do buy music on occasion. This last month, I've bought two CD's. One being Frontier Ruckus's new album and Cursive's new album, both absolutely worth my $14.
If you cant afford something save up till you can

If music is free and I'm short on cash, I'm absolutely going to download it. Even if all of a sudden the main stream music industry started putting out genuinely quality work, I would still not buy it -nor would 98% of the other people my age. Hell, I can personally say that I do not know a single person my age that does not steal music. but its not free, you are equating free with the fact that you can steal it and it doesnt cost you anything

Morally, there is little difference from stealing a CD in a store that stealing it online. It's just that when your sitting in your bedroom clicking through TPB or Demonoid it simply does not feel like stealing, especially since you know that your chances of getting caught are very, very low.
Its called integrity, you know its wrong. Doing the right thing when the wrong thing is so easy

It's unfortunate considering the amount of people that feed their families through this industry, but maybe in the end of all this people will start focusing on their art, rather than money

No its unfortunate becasue you participate in it and make matter worse for those people

If piracy continues, maybe more really great art could come out of it. Art obviously doesn't necessarily feed a family though, but was it ever supposed to?

So now you are justifying your stealing by putting the fault on artists for trying to feed their families and themselves through art. Dont they have a choice what they want to do for a living?

Joe Hertler

Is this what you are going to teach your 2nd grade students Joe?

[nickynicknick]

I can't ****ing believe this idiocy...you are a stupid **** who doesn't deserve a better response than this....why are we giving these assholes a place to spew their garbage? it's like 100 pages now...how do you argue a point with a nimrod who's telling us we should all work for free so he can enjoy himself at school...the same guy that assumes there will be a high paying job waiting for him when he gets out of daycare....err university...there is no making sense to these people...I sure he'll grow up, but that doesn't help in the present...WTF already...shut this shit down please.

Nick

[soundrick]

Originally Posted by Croaker

we have all heard this before..."I dont download music", I just get it from a friend who does..blah blah blah..I wouldn't buy it anyway, so they arent losing anything.

and the best line..If I like it enough I end up buying...or the next record at least LMAO

why dont you guys just get some balls and say I take music for free instead giving all the lame reasons..You cant even do it yourself, you have to get it from somebody else so you can declare in front of everyone.."I dont download music". Why you do it is hardly relevant.

Have you ever borrowed an album from someone to listen to? Well, then I guess you're stealing music then, because you listened to it without paying.

If some dude gives me something, and I listen to it once, hate it and delete it, what's the fvcking difference?

Wow, you're so cool and above it. I wish I was you........

[soundrick]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Please, please don't keep repeating the same line about touring bands.
Downloading effects more people than young bands who want to tour constantly.
This has come up in nearly all the threads, and more people than me have pointed out the inaccuracy of claims that bands make more money on t-shirts, record companies routinely rip them off, and downloading only hurts major label bands who can tour whenever they want. etc, etc....
I mean why should Brian Eno suddenly put together a band, print some t-shirts and head out on the road for a year?
Aren't we always saying the older bands are rock dinosaurs and shouldn't be doing the Enormo-domes anymore?
You can't force anyone who's ever had a one hit wonder or put out an album to tour just to keep the wolf from the door.
There simply is much more to the music industry than bands playing live.

Well, first of all, I'm not "repeating" anything, because I haven't read every post in every thread.

But, I'm out of here anyway. This thread isn't about pragmatism or how the music industry can survive this transition, it's a bunch of soapboxing.
Big name acts aren't going to suffer as much as the little, unknown guys, that's kind of what I was addressing.

Good luck trying to stop people from downloading music for free. The only thing I can suggest to all these bands who are gonna lose millions is save some of your cash, don't spend it all on Ferraris and blow.

[Croaker]

Originally Posted by soundrick

Have you ever borrowed an album from someone to listen to? Well, then I guess you're stealing music then, because you listened to it without paying.

If some dude gives me something, and I listen to it once, hate it and delete it, what's the fvcking difference?

Wow, you're so cool and above it. I wish I was you........

You mean borrow an album from a friend who bought it?
well if you just said " I was checking out some of my friends music to see if I like it"...

but you started off by saying "I personally don't download music. I have a friend who gives me stuff that I wouldn't ordinarily buy just to check out."

then make your of excuses after that, on a thread where we are talking about stealing /illegally downloading music.

Let me ask you this...if "some dude" gave you something and you liked it would you just keep it or delete it and go buy it? Give us an honest answer. have you ever kept it without paying for it?

I don't think Im cool and above it...I just dont steal.

[Croaker]

Originally Posted by soundrick

Good luck trying to stop people from downloading music for free. The only thing I can suggest to all these bands who are gonna lose millions is save some of your cash, don't spend it all on Ferraris and blow.

Now there's a really deep thought out statement. generalizing a bit there maybe? All artists are drug addicts that drive expensive cars. They deserve what they get..that about right?

nice job

[Backhousepro]

Originally Posted by jihadjoe75

Work is slow right now and I feel like ranting...

I'm a college student who makes $8 an hour for my campuses IT support dept and quite frankly, I cannot afford to pay $10-$20 for a CD. Yep, I'm a pirate and I have been for a very long time. Although I do buy music on occasion. This last month, I've bought two CD's. One being Frontier Ruckus's new album and Cursive's new album, both absolutely worth my $14.

If music is free and I'm short on cash, I'm absolutely going to download it. Even if all of a sudden the main stream music industry started putting out genuinely quality work, I would still not buy it -nor would 98% of the other people my age. Hell, I can personally say that I do not know a single person my age that does not steal music.

Morally, there is little difference from stealing a CD in a store that stealing it online. It's just that when your sitting in your bedroom clicking through TPB or Demonoid it simply does not feel like stealing, especially since you know that your chances of getting caught are very, very low.

It's been said a million times, but the days are changing and the recording industry is not. It's unfortunate considering the amount of people that feed their families through this industry, but maybe in the end of all this people will start focusing on their art, rather than money. If piracy continues, maybe more really great art could come out of it. Art obviously doesn't necessarily feed a family though, but was it ever supposed to?

Now, dear recording industry, if you can give me an unlimited library with lossless songs... hell, I'd probably pay twenty-sum bucks a month for that. Unfortunately, I'm assuming the other %90 of the population that can't recognize the difference between a lossless file and one of those bullshit 128kbps songs you can pay a dollar for on itunes. So yea, in regards to making money with music, we musicians are mostly just effed. I'd start promoting your concerts more and make a few nice t-shirts, cause that's usually what people my age spend money on when they support a band.

In the mean time, I will personally be giving my music away for free, because it is, quite frankly, not worth $10 for an album. I just like it when people listen and enjoy my songs.

Thanks for listening to my rant. It's been a long day.

With love,
Joe Hertler

Nothing personal Joe, but I'm so sick of this after-the-fact rationale (see bolded text). There is a truth in there but an essential component is missing: Sponsorship. That's why we had great art in the classical and romantic periods - sponsorship. The rich and royalty (robber barons) felt it was their responsibility to raise the level of society by sponsoring the arts and therefore searched for genius to sponsor (That's taking care of life's expenses, leaving them free to create without financial worry). If Beethoven had to work at Ye Olde Luthier Centre for minimum wage, I doubt there'd be a 1st symphony, let alone a 5th. In the 20th century, people had to be their own sponsors — somehow juggling making a living with making music. Charles Ives started an insurance company so that he could make enough money to compose. And when Reagan dismantled funding for the arts, the grants that enabled established and student composers to go to the McDowell community and create, went away. And so did the music. In popular music, if you didn't have a producer who believed in your talent absorbing recording expenses, or a record label development deal (the modern equivalent of sponsorship), you had to be your own sponsor and come up with the money to make demos, which gave way to buying home recording equipment — a trend started by Tom Scholz, who, as an MIT grad and a well-paid mechanical engineer at Polaroid, was able to buy and modify equipment that most others couldn't touch (Scully 12-track/Dan Flickinger console). Also, notice that it took him three years to record his demos. Nor, was he a very prolific composer.

The simple truth is, you can't sing unless the stomach is full. Juilliard understands this, which is why all students there, regardless of how rich the family they come from, are entitled to financial aid. If you have to worry about paying the rent, feeding yourself, a family and etc, you'll have precious little time or energy left over at the end of a day to focus on your art.

Also, as a musician, I have to pay for lessons, buy instruments, synthesizers, amplifiers, PA systems, recording equipment including computers, software, etc, etc (which isn't cheap); pay to learn how to use the recording equipment at schools or workshops (easily drop a few thousand there); buy educational books and industry magazines (find time to read them, not to mention 500-page instruction manuals); pay people to promote my music if I find the time to make any; pay for my internet provider and spend countless hours marketing myself (assuming I know how, and without spamming people); and then there's my most valuable commodity that I have to donate for free - my time, which is irreplaceable. And, I have to do all this before the industry says I'm too old and don't have a salable image (Let's not even talk about those costs). Now, do you really expect me to do all this and come up with great art just for your enjoyment - available for free — by someone who is using my productivity to make a fortune selling advertising — putting me and my kind out of work so he can have nice things? Sorry. I'm not a charitable organization. I want to eat and drive a nice car too. And certainly, I'm not donating my life to the "Help Gottfrid Svartholm, Fredrik Neij, And Peter Sunde Buy A Maserati Fund."

More than that, it's quite difficult to devote all of your free time gambling your youth and earning power on a pursuit that is equivalent to trying to win the lottery. Now, take the possibility of making money out of that equation, and what do you get? The answer is not great art. As long as making music is a commercial endeavor, then return on investment will be a primary focus. And with music being devalued in the marketplace as it has been, it doesn't make sense for those wanting a career that will sustain them to make sacrifices for something that is being given away for free.

One side rant. How are new artists going to emerge when already embedded artists like Radiohead are offering free downloads with payment optional? It's like saying to all hopeful artists: "Screw you, we've got ours." After all, what unknown can compete with an artist that was established by the big music distribution machine, who now wants to sell internet advertising with music as a free enticement. I guess the universe does love irony.

You want great art? Bring back sponsorship. You want music for free - well, you get what you pay for.

That's my rant and I'm sticking to it.

-B-

[soundrick]

Originally Posted by Croaker

Give us an honest answer.

LOL

In this witchhunt? Sure. You don't want honesty, you want to be "right", so no matter what I say, I'm inevitably at the wrong end of your moral compass as either a thief or a liar.

You keep fighting the good fight, I think I'll go whack off and continue living my life.......

[soundrick]

Originally Posted by Croaker

Now there's a really deep thought out statement. generalizing a bit there maybe? All artists are drug addicts that drive expensive cars. They deserve what they get..that about right?

nice job

Well, that went so far over your head, it's kind of funny.

His comment implied that already successful bands are going to suffer. By that implication it means that they are losing relatively more than lesser known acts who should be touring anyway.

The original concept for my statement was that grotto mentioned in the old days, musicians were compensated for their performance, I can't see why that shouldn't be the standard today.
If these "old rock dinosaurs" didn't save any of that hard earned cash for a rainy day, they better be ready to hump it again out on the road with the new industry model......

Either way, I think lesser known bands could suffer more on the label side of things, but they'll still be able to make money touring and via iTunes, etc..., which they should be doing anyway.

"all artists are drug addicts and drive expensive cars" LMAO
Hooray for the internets!! The golden land where sarcasm isn't lost on anyone!!

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by soundrick

I'm inevitably at the wrong end of your moral compass as either a thief or a liar.
.

No, you just can't stand it that a lot of people disagree with you and don't think you're cool and cutting edge.
So you have a temper tantrum, write a lot of *X!**X! and spew out the old musicians are driving Ferrari's and sticking blow up their noses line.
That line alone shows you have a huge amount to learn about the business you think you understand.

[musicmann]

It WAS supposed to feed the family, if that was your trade.. Come on.. Theft when it's easy is still theft. I certainly do not hold the answer, but theft is not it. Everyone has had shitty jobs, so screw that excuse buddy. Somehow we all managed to get music before we could easily steal it. Because its there, does NOT entitle to you to pirated music. Absolutely not. Just because the world has changed doesn't mean that the change is for the better. Computers and the internet are the best AND worst thing that has happened to the music business. And yeah, OF COURSE its a business.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by soundrick

Have you ever borrowed an album from someone to listen to? Well, then I guess you're stealing music then, because you listened to it without paying.

If some dude gives me something, and I listen to it once, hate it and delete it, what's the fvcking difference?

Wow, you're so cool and above it. I wish I was you........

That isn't the way copyright law works. If you borrow your friends album, then your buddy can't listen to it at the same time, thus it is within the legal framework of the copyright. If he makes you a copy and you both now have the album, you have violated the copyright and broken the law.

[SANDS]

I think it's great. I'm not paying for a crappy album, unfortunately in the old days did many times.

I download it, if I like it and listen to it I end up buying it. If I listen to it a few times and don't like it I delete it. In the days of CD's I could sell them to Now Hear This or Vintage Vinyl. In the days of cassette's I made a copy of a friends or borrowed it, if I liked it I ended up buying it. Now I don't have that choice, so I download it for free and try it out.

so who do I sell my crappy 128 itunes mp3 folder to if I hate it? No one.

Same with software, if I like it and use it a lot I buy it. Some companies are starting to make the demo's full featured which is nice, so in that case I'm fine with that.


Many of the people that steal music wouldn't have bought it anyway. I know a guy that downloads music all the time and I don't even think he knows half the stuff he has, he never listens to it. i think it had become more of an obsession than anything else.

Many of the people stealing music are stealing bad music too so who cares, not me. Staind, Spears, Nickelback etc...horrible writing bad on the ears, lyrics do nothing for anyone, music that has no thought put into it other than making money, a product, that is not art, that is a product like anything else.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by SANDS

Many of the people that steal music wouldn't have bought it anyway.

Why do they need it then?
It's kind if a non argument.
I'm honestly happy that a number of people will not buy my music, I'm less happy when they decide to take it free.

[soundrick]

Originally Posted by chrisso

No, you just can't stand it that a lot of people disagree with you and don't think you're cool and cutting edge.
So you have a temper tantrum, write a lot of *X!**X! and spew out the old musicians are driving Ferrari's and sticking blow up their noses line.
That line alone shows you have a huge amount to learn about the business you think you understand.

come on man.

I'm not the bad guy here. Where is the practicality in this discussion?
Far from a temper tantrum, the ferrari line was just being a little snarky.

BTW, I never said I was cool or had some great understanding of the music business, those are your words. All I said was with all your idealism and high moral conduct, you're not going to stop people from stealing music online.

I agree with you most of the time, I'm just trying to be practical here, that's the way things really get done. There is a common ground.
You're acting a bit like those fundamentalist tossers in the political forum right now. "It's our way or the highway, if you don't agree, you're wrong and immoral"tutt

SWEET!! My 1000 post!!
I'd like to thank............ummmm........everyone except Jesus.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by soundrick

You're acting a bit like those fundamentalist tossers in the political forum right now. "It's our way or the highway, if you don't agree, you're wrong and immoral"tutt

Actually that's the honest impression I get from the pro piracy lobby.
It's the new reality, get real or get lost.
If you don't agree with file sharing you're living in the past, or worse...greedy.
Not much negotiation there.

[jihadjoe75]

There are so many things I'd like to make comments about and I appreciate all of the responses you guys have given me. This forum is filled with many people who have made a honest living out of music. You are the people who have taken the dive into professional art and I respect that very, very much.

I suppose I'm just trying to represent my generation, because in my generation stealing music is acceptable. It's incredibly easy to do, for even the most technologically illiterate person can download a song. Second of all, you have a very, very low chance of ever getting caught. To us, it feels like it may as well be a one in a million chance. Might I also add that everyone does it -and I mean everyone. Stealing music is socially acceptable, even to the extent where people brag about it openly. I can honestly say right now that I do not know a single person my age that does not have a substantial amount of stolen music on their computer.

It seems that a lot of people here are comparing my generation to yours. I've even heard a few people say that possibly my generation may be lacking morals. This may be true, but what did your parents think of your generation. Hell, in a little over five or so years I'll be at the point where I may be considering having a child of my own and I'm pretty dang sure that I'll be questioning the morals of his generation at some point or another. The culture of my youth is very, very different from yours. I have trouble understanding the culture of your generation, just as you have trouble understanding mine.

Now, lets just say your fifteen again and we'll say it's... say 1975. One day, a new technology comes out that gives you a way to get any music you'd ever want for free. It ends up being illegal, but absolutely everyone around you is doing it and you know you wont get caught. I even remember the first time I stole music. I was in sixth grade and cd burners were the hottest new piece of tech equipment available. Kids used to charge other people to burn CD's for them. For $5, some kid burnt me Quadrophenia, Dark Side of the Moon, and a Dave Mathews band live album. Everyone was buying cd's off these kids, that is, until burners became more and more commonplace. Now, If you guys can honestly say that as a teenager you would not take advantage of a situation like that, well... I have a great amount of respect for you. Unfortunately, I guess 98% of the 75 million teenagers that inhabit the United States right now do not share the same moral standards.

The music industry will not die. There will always be musicians looking to be recorded, maybe even more than ever. From the artists, to the music, to the labels and everything else in between, things are thinning out and will continue to do so. When I look at the artists that surround me here in the Michigan folk scene, it never seems like anyone is ever focused on making money, which is probably due to the fact that it is very difficult now to make any profit at all. I'm getting the opportunity to make a run in a small midwest tour this year with an unbelievably talented and passionate group of songwriters. All of us are just as pasionate about our art as anyone else on this forum, yet we all have substantial amounts of pirated music. Also, while we've been booking shows over the last few weeks, not a single artist has come up to me and asked if they will get paid for this. In fact, most of us will lose money on this tour. It doesn't matter though, because we just want to play. I guess the satisfaction of knowing, say... two hundred people downloaded one of your songs and are listening to it overrides the fact that most of us young musicians will see very little cash for our efforts. Maybe one day, granted I'm blessed enough to see an opportunity to pursue my art professionally, I'll appreciate the money that I could possibly make.

I think a lot about how I steal music and I certainly don't like it. Listening to the insight you guys have expressed here has made me question it even more. There are many genuinely intelligent people on this forum and like I said before, many of you have taken the dive and succeeded. I cannot tell you how much I admire that. I've been buying cd's here and there over the last few months simply because it makes me feel good. I want this art to thrive and flourish and to do so in a professional standpoint, it obviously needs to see revenue. I feel like I've learned a lot from your responses, but in all honesty I'm going to keep occasionally downloading music until it's not the worth the risk, or maybe when I'm a bit more grown up. Although, I do plan on buying a record player here pretty soon. Simply nothing beats vinyl and I'm seeing more and more of them pop up in my friend's homes lately. You can certainly count on me spending money on good records.

I'm tired of writing now, so take care and keep making art.

Love, Joe. stike

[chrisso]

The thing is though.... kids grow up and realise the foolish things they've done, and the mistakes they've made.
That's what maturing is all about.

[jihadjoe75]

Originally Posted by chrisso

The thing is though.... kids grow up and realise the foolish things they've done, and the mistakes they've made.
That's what maturing is all about.

I think I feel it more and more everyday, especially after reading many of the responses here.