I steal music.

[jchadstopherhuez]

Originally Posted by abtech

If you feel entitled to break the law because you can't afford a luxury, then I'm at a loss because that is just wrong no matter how you rationalize it.

THIS is all that really needs to be said. if you don't get it...you never will.

period.

best,

jchristopherhughes

[audiobob]

Originally Posted by MrT

Downloading does not equal stealing in the same way as shoplifting does. Sorry, just plain doesn't.

The only way it's not the same is that when you get busted for shoplifting you get thrown down by mall cop.

But stealing is stealing. Car, sweater, pack of smokes or a file containing data that was purchased by someone else. The essence is you're taking something that does not belong to you and keeping it for your own without approval. That is the same no matter how you look at it.

[MrT]

Originally Posted by thecontinental

But stealing is stealing. Car, sweater, pack of smokes or a file containing data that was purchased by someone else. The essence is you're taking something that does not belong to you and keeping it for your own without approval. That is the same no matter how you look at it.

not really, you aren't causing someone the direct loss of physical product. The only real loss is the fractional potential that you might have purchased it otherwise. It's hypothetical loss.

[Denny McNerney]

Originally Posted by MrT

not really, you aren't causing someone the direct loss of physical product. The only real loss is the fractional potential that you might have purchased it otherwise. It's hypothetical loss.

but whatever...

i love it.

sarcasm again.

[soundrick]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Nearly every piece of great art in the history of man was paid for, so no, I don't think great art will come out of the continuation of piracy.

Have to disagree with this. This statement cannot be an absolute.

A LOT of art might have been paid for, but it wasn't always the artist who received the compensation, or if it was even paid for in the artist's lifetime.

Herman Melville and Van Gough come to mind here.......

True artists do what they do, because it's what they do. Things like passion, dedication and not wavering from their artistic path separates them from the herd.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be compensated, quite the opposite, but the greats do it regardless of compensation.......one way or the other.

[hello people]

I just wanted to say that I steal music, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other music stealers. I mean uh, all our lives we've been laughed at and made to feel inferior. And tonight, those bastards, they trashed our house. Why? Cause we're smart? Cause we look different? Well, we're not. I'm a music stealer, and uh, I'm pretty proud of it.

Hi. I'm a music stealer too. I just found that out tonight. We have news for the beautiful people. There's a lot more of us than there are of you. I know there's alumni here tonight. When you went to Adams you might've been called a spazz, or a dork, or a geek. Any of you that have ever felt stepped on, left out, picked on, put down, whether you think you're a music stealer or not, why don't you just come down here and join us. Okay? Come on.

[IM WHO YOU THINK]

Originally Posted by soundrick

Have to disagree with this. This statement cannot be an absolute.

A LOT of art might have been paid for, but it wasn't always the artist who received the compensation, or if it was even paid for in the artist's lifetime.

Herman Melville and Van Gough come to mind here.......

True artists do what they do, because it's what they do. Things like passion, dedication and not wavering from their artistic path separates them from the herd.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be compensated, quite the opposite, but the greats do it regardless of compensation.......one way or the other.

How can his statement NOT be an absolute? He said "nearly every".

[_rd]

Originally Posted by abtech

To the original poster:

I was a poor college student for several years and could barely afford to purchase a record every couple of months. I was working two jobs to pay for grad school and couldn't think about luxuries like new audio equipment, more records etc.

The music industry didn't give me a pass back then because times were hard, so I listened to the radio. That's right, the radio and even though the fidelity wasn't the greatest and there were tons of commercials, I could still listen to music without having to resort to theft.

If you feel entitled to break the law because you can't afford a luxury, then I'm at a loss because that is just wrong no matter how you rationalize it.

****ing right, damn!

[soundrick]

Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK

How can his statement NOT be an absolute? He said "nearly every".

You're right, I re-read it. I still wouldn't even call it "nearly every" though.

The best art I've seen recently is a lot of low-brow stuff. The best music I've heard recently was at SxSW by a bunch of indie bands.

The point is that great art will exist as long as the people with that type of brain exist, whether they make money or not.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by soundrick

The point is that great art will exist as long as the people with that type of brain exist, whether they make money or not.

It's kind of a moot point though isn't it.
If you enjoy great art (in this case music) why not contribute to the musicians ability to keep creating it?

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by hello people

I just wanted to say that I steal music, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other music stealers. I mean uh, all our lives we've been laughed at and made to feel inferior. ............

Yeah, your intelligence is really on display in this forum.

[Denny McNerney]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Yeah, your intelligence is really on display in this forum.

yeah, chris.

[drundall]

Originally Posted by jihadjoe75

Work is slow right now and I feel like ranting...

I'm a college student who makes $8 an hour for my campuses IT support dept and quite frankly, I cannot afford to pay $10-$20 for a CD.

When I was a kid I made $7/hr moving rocks and used the money to buy records.

Quit trying to rationalize thievery. Don't blame the industry for your actions. Piracy is not going to create great art but will force musicians to think of CD sales and low to zero priority and hammer a lot of people on this forum out of work.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by soundrick

Have to disagree with this. This statement cannot be an absolute.

A LOT of art might have been paid for, but it wasn't always the artist who received the compensation, or if it was even paid for in the artist's lifetime.

Herman Melville and Van Gough come to mind here.......

True artists do what they do, because it's what they do. Things like passion, dedication and not wavering from their artistic path separates them from the herd.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be compensated, quite the opposite, but the greats do it regardless of compensation.......one way or the other.

Well, in the case of Herman Melville, he was actually quite successful in his early professional career. "Moby Dick" wasn't critically acclaimed until after his death, but his first novel was a best-seller, and for the first decade or so of his work, he was quite popular.

However, literature isn't the subject here, music is (though I stand by my statement). So consider all the great masterpieces written by the master composers of the past five hundred years or so. I'd wager that the majority of them were written on commission and performed by musicians who were being adequately compensated for their performances.

True artists may continue to create, however we may never hear those creations if the artist can't afford to record and promote his work. Recording is expensive, touring is expensive (and freakin' grueling!), and promotion is VERY expensive and VERY difficult!!

Those bands you heard at SXSW won't last long if they can't sell any of the records they invested so much time and money into, or if the labels releasing their work can't afford to. Lord knows the SXSW shows aren't paying them enough to keep them afloat...

[SurveillanceP]

/yawn.

More analogies that semi fit peoples point of view but don't really hold up when pushed plx k bai.

when-i-was-lad-we-woke-up-half-an-hour-fore-we-went-to-bed-breakfast-was-lump'o'coal-off-the-road etc etc.

Got your flame suit on OP? Ima don mine right now.

[joelkanning]

Here's a fun little scenario I'd like to offer up to the pro-PirateBay, music-stealing "musicians" who are posting as of late:

Ok. So you steal music and, quite frankly are proud of that fact. I mean come on, who's got money for it, right? And, no one was ever going to make a dime off of you because you were never going to buy it in the first place. So, you work your 40hr/week job (maybe two, if you've got kids, family, pets, etc.) hardly making enough to scrape by (what with the damn rent, car payment, insurance [probably not], cable TV, internet - damn those bills), let alone purchase the gear and software it takes to make your music. But, you also take pride in the fact that all of your software is stolen, but you are entitled to it because it's all just too damn expensive to buy anyhow, right? You'd download all of your hardware, too, if you could. Plus, you don't think your music is really worth a shit - you probably mostly use it as an excuse to pound a few brews with your buds and make some noise, anyhow. Oh, if only all of us could be so lucky...

Well, so one day you write a cool song that totally doesn't suck - at all. Will wonders ever cease? Proudly, you slap it up on your website, Myspace page, Soundclick page, etc... hell, you even create your own torrent to share with all your buds online. Cool!

So one evening you get a sitter for the kids (or maybe just leave the little bastards at home by themselves - at least that's FREE) and take the wife to a movie. She's been a little sore with you lately (ah, who am I kiddin', she's totally pissed with you) because you spent the phone bill money on some silly piece of equipment (you know the one - it's got that yellow triangle logo with the ear inside of it) that you just HAD to have. You suggested maybe staying home and watching one of those great new movies you just downloaded, but after the "anniversary incident" (oh yeah, now you remember: you took her to that nasty hot-dog stand on 47th, bought an 18-pack, got drunk "on accident" and then proceeded to tell her how miserable she's made you all these years... oops - not good) you figured you damn-well better spend some serious cash to rectify your standing.

Half-way through this abomination of a movie (it is, after all, a chick-flick) during some intense scene you realize the kick-ass music your hearing is YOUR TUNE!! Holy mother of Easter eggs!! Those bastards STOLE your song and put it in their crappy movie. Oh, the horror!! I mean, you spent weeks on that tune and it came out so perfect (thank god you got all them Waves plugs - score!!), and they're gonna make a butt-load of cash from this movie and aren't planning on giving you one freakin' penny, dude. Not even a mention in the credits. WTF?!! You totally got screwed just now...

Wanna guess why?

Suddenly the thought of losing out on those licensing fees (which is what you pay for when you "purchase" music or movies) becomes a real concern to you, as it should. But hey, the film producer figured he was entitled to your track 'cause he found it on the P'Bay, and besides it was ONLY a crummy MP3 - that shit is all FREE isn't it? No harm, no foul. No one loses out on anything. Apples to apples. Aw, but cheer up buckaroo - you'll get even one day by downloading that crappy movie, putting it on every P2P site and make sure nobody ever makes another dime off it, just like it should be. Yeah!!! REVOLOOOOOOOOTION Baby!!!!

[SurveillanceP]

dfegad

Originally Posted by joelkanning

Here's a fun little scenario I'd like to offer up to the pro-PirateBay, music-stealing "musicians" who are posting as of late:

Ok. So you steal music and, quite frankly are proud of that fact. I mean come on, who's got money for it, right? And, no one was ever going to make a dime off of you because you were never going to buy it in the first place. So, you work your 40hr/week job (maybe two, if you've got kids, family, pets, etc.) hardly making enough to scrape by (what with the damn rent, car payment, insurance [probably not], cable TV, internet - damn those bills), let alone purchase the gear and software it takes to make your music. But, you also take pride in the fact that all of your software is stolen, but you are entitled to it because it's all just too damn expensive to buy anyhow, right? You'd download all of your hardware, too, if you could. Plus, you don't think your music is really worth a shit - you probably mostly use it as an excuse to pound a few brews with your buds and make some noise, anyhow. Oh, if only all of us could be so lucky...

Well, so one day you write a cool song that totally doesn't suck - at all. Will wonders ever cease? Proudly, you slap it up on your website, Myspace page, Soundclick page, etc... hell, you even create your own torrent to share with all your buds online. Cool!

So one evening you get a sitter for the kids (or maybe just leave the little bastards at home by themselves - at least that's FREE) and take the wife to a movie. She's been a little sore with you lately (ah, who am I kiddin', she's totally pissed with you) because you spent the phone bill money on some silly piece of equipment (you know the one - it's got that yellow triangle logo with the ear inside of it) that you just HAD to have. You suggested maybe staying home and watching one of those great new movies you just downloaded, but after the "anniversary incident" (oh yeah, now you remember: you took her to that nasty hot-dog stand on 47th, bought an 18-pack, got drunk "on accident" and then proceeded to tell her how miserable she's made you all these years... oops - not good) you figured you damn-well better spend some serious cash to rectify your standing.

Half-way through this abomination of a movie (it is, after all, a chick-flick) during some intense scene you realize the kick-ass music your hearing is YOUR TUNE!! Holy mother of Easter eggs!! Those bastards STOLE your song and put it in their crappy movie. Oh, the horror!! I mean, you spent weeks on that tune and it came out so perfect (thank god you got all them Waves plugs - score!!), and they're gonna make a butt-load of cash from this movie and aren't planning on giving you one freakin' penny, dude. Not even a mention in the credits. WTF?!! You totally got screwed just now...

Wanna guess why?

Suddenly the thought of losing out on those licensing fees (which is what you pay for when you "purchase" music or movies) becomes a real concern to you, as it should. But hey, the film producer figured he was entitled to your track 'cause he found it on the P'Bay, and besides it was ONLY a crummy MP3 - that shit is all FREE isn't it? No harm, no foul. No one loses out on anything. Apples to apples. Aw, but cheer up buckaroo - you'll get even one day by downloading that crappy movie, putting it on every P2P site and make sure nobody ever makes another dime off it, just like it should be. Yeah!!! REVOLOOOOOOOOTION Baby!!!!

and where precisely does this cute story intersect with the real world. Oh wait.... I don't care.

[SurveillanceP]

@ joalkanning:

There was no need for me to be rude to you then, your post has merit. Just in a bad mood, sorry .

I'm out.

[chrisso]

Nice apology......

[HobbyCore]

I think you're completely out of touch with people who freely put their music online.

Most folks I know of who do so have been in this scenario and the last thing on their mind is 'OMG, IM MISSING OUT ON MONEY!'. They're usually elated that their music is getting such exposure.

I suggest joining some communities that focus on creative commons, mashups, remixing or similar concepts to learn how the community works. It's nothing like you describe, and far more common than you seem to suspect.

Originally Posted by joelkanning

Here's a fun little scenario I'd like to offer up to the pro-PirateBay, music-stealing "musicians" who are posting as of late:

Ok. So you steal music and, quite frankly are proud of that fact. I mean come on, who's got money for it, right? And, no one was ever going to make a dime off of you because you were never going to buy it in the first place. So, you work your 40hr/week job (maybe two, if you've got kids, family, pets, etc.) hardly making enough to scrape by (what with the damn rent, car payment, insurance [probably not], cable TV, internet - damn those bills), let alone purchase the gear and software it takes to make your music. But, you also take pride in the fact that all of your software is stolen, but you are entitled to it because it's all just too damn expensive to buy anyhow, right? You'd download all of your hardware, too, if you could. Plus, you don't think your music is really worth a shit - you probably mostly use it as an excuse to pound a few brews with your buds and make some noise, anyhow. Oh, if only all of us could be so lucky...

Well, so one day you write a cool song that totally doesn't suck - at all. Will wonders ever cease? Proudly, you slap it up on your website, Myspace page, Soundclick page, etc... hell, you even create your own torrent to share with all your buds online. Cool!

So one evening you get a sitter for the kids (or maybe just leave the little bastards at home by themselves - at least that's FREE) and take the wife to a movie. She's been a little sore with you lately (ah, who am I kiddin', she's totally pissed with you) because you spent the phone bill money on some silly piece of equipment (you know the one - it's got that yellow triangle logo with the ear inside of it) that you just HAD to have. You suggested maybe staying home and watching one of those great new movies you just downloaded, but after the "anniversary incident" (oh yeah, now you remember: you took her to that nasty hot-dog stand on 47th, bought an 18-pack, got drunk "on accident" and then proceeded to tell her how miserable she's made you all these years... oops - not good) you figured you damn-well better spend some serious cash to rectify your standing.

Half-way through this abomination of a movie (it is, after all, a chick-flick) during some intense scene you realize the kick-ass music your hearing is YOUR TUNE!! Holy mother of Easter eggs!! Those bastards STOLE your song and put it in their crappy movie. Oh, the horror!! I mean, you spent weeks on that tune and it came out so perfect (thank god you got all them Waves plugs - score!!), and they're gonna make a butt-load of cash from this movie and aren't planning on giving you one freakin' penny, dude. Not even a mention in the credits. WTF?!! You totally got screwed just now...

Wanna guess why?

Suddenly the thought of losing out on those licensing fees (which is what you pay for when you "purchase" music or movies) becomes a real concern to you, as it should. But hey, the film producer figured he was entitled to your track 'cause he found it on the P'Bay, and besides it was ONLY a crummy MP3 - that shit is all FREE isn't it? No harm, no foul. No one loses out on anything. Apples to apples. Aw, but cheer up buckaroo - you'll get even one day by downloading that crappy movie, putting it on every P2P site and make sure nobody ever makes another dime off it, just like it should be. Yeah!!! REVOLOOOOOOOOTION Baby!!!!

[joelkanning]

Originally Posted by SurveillanceP

dfegad

and where precisely does this cute story intersect with the real world. Oh wait.... I don't care.

The point is, if a person doesn't have any stakes in this industry then pirating music, or software, or whatever seems to be totally acceptable and excusable. But I guarantee if the tables ever turned, and they actually had something to lose, they'd be singing a completely different tune.

[joelkanning]

Originally Posted by HobbyCore

I think you're completely out of touch with people who freely put their music online.

Most folks I know of who do so have been in this scenario and the last thing on their mind is 'OMG, IM MISSING OUT ON MONEY!'. They're usually elated that their music is getting such exposure.

I suggest joining some communities that focus on creative commons, mashups, remixing or similar concepts to learn how the community works. It's nothing like you describe, and far more common than you seem to suspect.

I actually think you missed the point I was trying to make (see my post above).

(I wasn't commenting on people who freely put their music online, to then have it ripped off by film studios, and am quite aware of how the community works. Perhaps I lost you in the heavy bits of sarcasm. My bad...)

[MrT]

Originally Posted by Denny McNerney

i love it.

You know, it really does feel nice to be appreciated. Good luck on your battle against, well, everyone but the established music industry. Hope it works out for you!

[hello people]

Originally Posted by hello people

I just wanted to say that I steal music, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other music stealers. I mean uh, all our lives we've been laughed at and made to feel inferior. And tonight, those bastards, they trashed our house. Why? Cause we're smart? Cause we look different? Well, we're not. I'm a music stealer, and uh, I'm pretty proud of it.

Hi. I'm a music stealer too. I just found that out tonight. We have news for the beautiful people. There's a lot more of us than there are of you. I know there's alumni here tonight. When you went to Adams you might've been called a spazz, or a dork, or a geek. Any of you that have ever felt stepped on, left out, picked on, put down, whether you think you're a music stealer or not, why don't you just come down here and join us. Okay? Come on.

Some of you suits need to read this one again and explore the studio space with it...I mean really explore the space

[NesNeedsGear]

just can't win an argument for free music on a music-related forum.

for most of us, giving our time, experience, knowledge and effort for free is disheartening.

why should the end result be free of purchase?

[joelkanning]

Originally Posted by SurveillanceP

@ joalkanning:

There was no need for me to be rude to you then, your post has merit. Just in a bad mood, sorry .

I'm out.

No worries, mate. In a bit of a bad mood myself. Just blowin' off a bit of steam, and from the smell of it I probably should've showered this morning.

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by jihadjoe75

Work is slow right now and I feel like ranting...

I'm a college student who makes $8 an hour for my campuses IT support dept and quite frankly, I cannot afford to pay $10-$20 for a CD. Yep, I'm a pirate and I have been for a very long time. Although I do buy music on occasion. This last month, I've bought two CD's. One being Frontier Ruckus's new album and Cursive's new album, both absolutely worth my $14.

If music is free and I'm short on cash, I'm absolutely going to download it. Even if all of a sudden the main stream music industry started putting out genuinely quality work, I would still not buy it -nor would 98% of the other people my age. Hell, I can personally say that I do not know a single person my age that does not steal music.

Morally, there is little difference from stealing a CD in a store that stealing it online. It's just that when your sitting in your bedroom clicking through TPB or Demonoid it simply does not feel like stealing, especially since you know that your chances of getting caught are very, very low.

It's been said a million times, but the days are changing and the recording industry is not. It's unfortunate considering the amount of people that feed their families through this industry, but maybe in the end of all this people will start focusing on their art, rather than money. If piracy continues, maybe more really great art could come out of it. Art obviously doesn't necessarily feed a family though, but was it ever supposed to?

Now, dear recording industry, if you can give me an unlimited library with lossless songs... hell, I'd probably pay twenty-sum bucks a month for that. Unfortunately, I'm assuming the other %90 of the population that can't recognize the difference between a lossless file and one of those bullshit 128kbps songs you can pay a dollar for on itunes. So yea, in regards to making money with music, we musicians are mostly just effed. I'd start promoting your concerts more and make a few nice t-shirts, cause that's usually what people my age spend money on when they support a band.

In the mean time, I will personally be giving my music away for free, because it is, quite frankly, not worth $10 for an album. I just like it when people listen and enjoy my songs.

Thanks for listening to my rant. It's been a long day.

With love,
Joe Hertler

How old are you?

[HobbyCore]

Originally Posted by joelkanning

I actually think you missed the point I was trying to make (see my post above).

(I wasn't commenting on people who freely put their music online, to then have it ripped off by film studios, and am quite aware of how the community works. Perhaps I lost you in the heavy bits of sarcasm. My bad...)

Err, yeah... I didnt read any sarcasm in what you wrote. I read it again and I still don't see it. I'm normally pretty good at this online sarcasm thing, since I tend to overuse it myself

I would like to know what you were trying to say.

[MichaelAngelo]

I t

Originally Posted by jihadjoe75

Work is slow right now and I feel like ranting...

I'm a college student who makes $8 an hour for my campuses IT support dept and quite frankly, I cannot afford to pay $10-$20 for a CD. Yep, I'm a pirate and I have been for a very long time. Although I do buy music on occasion. This last month, I've bought two CD's. One being Frontier Ruckus's new album and Cursive's new album, both absolutely worth my $14.

If music is free and I'm short on cash, I'm absolutely going to download it. Even if all of a sudden the main stream music industry started putting out genuinely quality work, I would still not buy it -nor would 98% of the other people my age. Hell, I can personally say that I do not know a single person my age that does not steal music.

Morally, there is little difference from stealing a CD in a store that stealing it online. It's just that when your sitting in your bedroom clicking through TPB or Demonoid it simply does not feel like stealing, especially since you know that your chances of getting caught are very, very low.

It's been said a million times, but the days are changing and the recording industry is not. It's unfortunate considering the amount of people that feed their families through this industry, but maybe in the end of all this people will start focusing on their art, rather than money. If piracy continues, maybe more really great art could come out of it. Art obviously doesn't necessarily feed a family though, but was it ever supposed to?

Now, dear recording industry, if you can give me an unlimited library with lossless songs... hell, I'd probably pay twenty-sum bucks a month for that. Unfortunately, I'm assuming the other %90 of the population that can't recognize the difference between a lossless file and one of those bullshit 128kbps songs you can pay a dollar for on itunes. So yea, in regards to making money with music, we musicians are mostly just effed. I'd start promoting your concerts more and make a few nice t-shirts, cause that's usually what people my age spend money on when they support a band.

In the mean time, I will personally be giving my music away for free, because it is, quite frankly, not worth $10 for an album. I just like it when people listen and enjoy my songs.

Thanks for listening to my rant. It's been a long day.

With love,
Joe Hertler

I totally understand...and agree with you... stealing is the way to do it. As a matter of fact I would love to steal not only your car , but your wallet,. if I get the chance...Why not,.. just as long as my actions will not be caught, the end justifies the means... right...


Karma's real dude....Your manners are VERY WRONG AND WILL HURT YOUR GENERATIONS LIFE...

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by hello people

Some of you suits need to read this one again

Who do you perceive on Gearslutz as 'a suit'?