I steal music.

[Jam]

To try a add something positive to the discussion, I downloaded Spotify yesterday after seeing it mentioned in one these threads.

It seems to fulfil a lot of the pro pirates criteria's.

I made a playlist of a bunch of music I wanted to hear. I can play it as many times as a like, with the pay back being I had to sit through an advert.

I can then right click on a track and download an mp3 for £.079. Or pop up the shop and buy a CD at my convenience.

Would this being rolled out globally satisfy at least some of those who are pro illegal P2P ?

James

[memphisindie]

Surely you jest, real pirates don't give a darn. could all these people with posts below 200 actually be paid by Spotify to bring up their subscription numbers in a dramatic way and convince GSers to convert t the "new model". They conspicuously never say "Spotify" themselves, they just seem to allude to it, but, there are about 20 of them and hey are relentless if not completely underhanded, melodramatic, and disingenuous.
They could have just put up a post that said "goo look at Spotify and see if this could be the next big thing for consumers and would you pro's back it.
Honest question gets an honest answer and everyone knows where they actually stand.
Unless they aren't interested in that and only want converts.
Ah, who knows?

[soulata]

Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78

Usually as with all things initial cost and asking price when something just hits the market is high, eventually it ends up in the bargain bin at 5 bucks.

and yes if there were no downloads at all, and music would be bought only.
some could and would lower the price of their CD's and LP's.
but again you would not want cd's and lp's for free? do you? :p

I disagree (politely).

Shops don't lower the prices if they sell at those they have and especially if there's nothing that'd push them into doing it, as downloads do right now. Our shops have almost never lowered their prices and they don't do it now, they just close the CD part when it's not viable anymore.

I don't want records to cost next to nothing but can't make myself pay 16 eur for one cd (ok, I do, but rarely, Nikka Costa was the last album I bought at full price).

I remember buying LPs when I was younger (like, 23 years ago), they were actually cheaper ... (and more expensive to make).

I sell my band's CDs for 10 eur, which is a lot, if there's entrance fee we sell them for even less than that for those who bought the ticket. 10 eur is max, but keep in mind this is a small(ish) run of CDs, meaning more expensive per CD.

k

[Batchainpuller78]

Originally Posted by soulata

I disagree (politely).

Shops don't lower the prices if they sell at those they have and especially if there's nothing that'd push them into doing it, as downloads do right now. Our shops have almost never lowered their prices and they don't do it now, they just close the CD part when it's not viable anymore.

I don't want records to cost next to nothing but can't make myself pay 16 eur for one cd (ok, I do, but rarely, Nikka Costa was the last album I bought at full price).

I remember buying LPs when I was younger (like, 23 years ago), they were actually cheaper ... (and more expensive to make).

I sell my band's CDs for 10 eur, which is a lot, if there's entrance fee we sell them for even less than that for those who bought the ticket. 10 eur is max, but keep in mind this is a small(ish) run of CDs, meaning more expensive per CD.

k

ah but if it would be viable they could play with the price.
Why cd costs in this shop so much and in another shop a bit more or less?
I usually see cd's going from 16-18 euro's to 10-12-ish after a year.
also one release is more expensive than another..... so it's not all on the same price range...

[asylumdigital]

Ok, seriously... The gates are open. I don't believe that it can be stopped. We cannot stop p2p at this point. But, I think subscription is the way of the future - Rhapsody, Napster, iTunes (IS coming), Spotify (everywhere but the US), etc... Companies needed to get out in front of this & make it completely silly to search for torrents. Maybe work out a subscription rate for your favorite torent engine - btjunkie, mininova, etc... Pay like $25 a month or something like that. Hell, just figure out something instead of fighting the tech for 11 years - you can't win there - it's already DONE.

[asylumdigital]

OH, btw - I purchase a ton of physical music. Recently, I have been really enjoying my vinyl collection. In fact, I have purchased more music in the past 6 months than I had purchased in years.
I have been turned on to many, MANY great bands by someone sharing a hard drive with me or emailing me a link. The problem is not solely piracy. There is a complete lack of filter in place to disseminate the good from bad & it is very "noisy" out there (if that makes sense...). Right now, we need our peers to share w/ us to be able to discover anything. Seriously.

[shadewind]

Originally Posted by Jam

To try a add something positive to the discussion, I downloaded Spotify yesterday after seeing it mentioned in one these threads.

It seems to fulfil a lot of the pro pirates criteria's.

I made a playlist of a bunch of music I wanted to hear. I can play it as many times as a like, with the pay back being I had to sit through an advert.

I can then right click on a track and download an mp3 for £.079. Or pop up the shop and buy a CD at my convenience.

Would this being rolled out globally satisfy at least some of those who are pro illegal P2P ?

James

It totally does it for me. Just get rid of the regional restrictions (regional restrictions is an incredibly stupid concept which eliminates the whole advantage of the internet) and I'm perfectly satisfied.

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

Again, what do you do for a living?

i actually own a really nice studio in ambridge pa, with a studer 24 track tape deck, neve front end, and countless priceless gear, 1176's la2a's etc, full pro tools as well...

thats my 2nd job- or my write off job.


my day job is a FOH tech for a sound company here locally in pittsburgh.

i also flip apartments for people, i walk in to shitty ass buildings and redo them into nice apartments.

i work 7 days a week, to pay off 82k in college debt.

this is what i do for a living- does this meet your standards of a thief?


and if you want to know how i got my start in either business its by doing stuff for free for people.

i have friends (older) than are landlords, that had minor leaks and such, instead of them hiring a plumber who would charge them 100 dollars just to show up, i'd have them take me out for dinner to solder some copper pipes. i can do flooring, drywall, framing, roofing, plumbing, and electrical.

the studio and the gear i got, was because i would go out of my way as a FOH engineer when i worked in a casino to make people comfortable on stage. plus i give alot of studio time away to the artists that lend the gear to the studio, we do pod casts, tv shows, and record full length albums in the studio, some engineers do lessons there, as well.

and the FOH tech job, i got from word of mouth as being a hard working kid who is good at what i do. i work for the biggest sound company in western pa, and we have one of the largest systems around here-

i work hard everyday, all day.


what do you do for a living?


so again- does this fit your standards as a theif?

to everyone else i'll respond to your quotes hopefully tomorrow, i'm enjoying a beer right now after a long weekend out of town.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

i actually own a really nice studio in ambridge pa, with a studer 24 track tape deck, neve front end, and countless priceless gear, 1176's la2a's etc, full pro tools as well... thats my 2nd job
my day job is a FOH tech for a sound company here locally in pittsburgh.
i walk in to shitty ass buildings and redo them into nice apartments.
i work 7 days a week, to pay off 82k in college debt.
this is what i do for a living- does this meet your standards of a thief?
i got my start in either business its by doing stuff for free for people.

instead of them hiring a plumber i'd have them take me out for dinner
i would go out of my way as a FOH engineer when i worked in a casino to make people comfortable on stage.
i give alot of studio time away
and the FOH tech job, i got from word of mouth as being a hard working kid who is good at what i do.
i work hard everyday, all day.
so again- does this fit your standards as a theif?
to everyone else i'll respond to your quotes hopefully tomorrow, i'm enjoying a beer right now after a long weekend out of town.

I do the same thing you do. Except for stealing music.

Do you steal music on bit torrent sites? If so, then on top of all that standup behavior, you are a thief. A hard-working thief, but, a thief nevertheless.

I'm a doctor for an American university hospital down south. I don't get enough, but, I work for charity and go across borders to save the little children in foreign lands. When I get back to America I feel lik i'm entitled to some perks, so, I steal organs from powerless poor American kids who are my patients.
Does that make me a thief?

Now as preposterous as that scenario sounds, when it happens to your child, that doctor is most assuredly "a thief" no matter how nice he was to all the "worthy people".
Get it.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by Batchainpuller78

ah but if it would be viable they could play with the price.
Why cd costs in this shop so much and in another shop a bit more or less?
I usually see cd's going from 16-18 euro's to 10-12-ish after a year.
also one release is more expensive than another..... so it's not all on the same price range...

Good Lord, don't you know someone who owns a shop who can tell you that? That's just in store tactics.
Welcome to the plight of the American consumer, you've got friends in low places!

[Batchainpuller78]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

Good Lord, don't you know someone who owns a shop who can tell you that? That's just in store tactics.
Welcome to the plight of the American consumer, you've got friends in low places!

Everybody's got a bit of marge on their price, so I'm just responding to people that complain about pricey cd's, I see them at all prices and in a viable shop prices are usually okay except for the latest Hit records from some majors.
and in a good store were the owner or the people working CARE about the music instead of just being a salesmen they also have or had (as those places are becoming rare) a broad selection in taste & genres going from the majors to independent releases.
If they don't have the cd they can order it.
So in downloading and this digital distribution at the moment not only musicians and record companies get hurt, but also distributers and music shops.
But CD's are past, and nobody apparently wants to take time to actually go to a shop and browse around through physical items containing music & video to purchase. sad.

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by memphisindie

I do the same thing you do. Except for stealing music.

Do you steal music on bit torrent sites? If so, then on top of all that standup behavior, you are a thief. A hard-working thief, but, a thief nevertheless.

i don't believe so- i purchase alot of music monthly. and if it wasn't for downloading poor quality mp3's i would be subjected to listening to music someone else picks out for me. (clear channel, myspace top picks, etc etc.)

I'm a doctor for an American university hospital down south. I don't get enough, but, I work for charity and go across borders to save the little children in foreign lands. When I get back to America I feel lik i'm entitled to some perks, so, I steal organs from powerless poor American kids who are my patients.
Does that make me a thief?

Now as preposterous as that scenario sounds, when it happens to your child, that doctor is most assuredly "a thief" no matter how nice he was to all the "worthy people".
Get it.

yes your example cannot be compared to me because an mp3 is nothing like a childs organ. and you tried to make it worse by 'powerless poor american kids'

by you existing and spending money, you make people poor.

understand the system we live in before you try and push me down as a theif.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

i purchase alot of music monthly. and if it wasn't for downloading poor quality mp3's i would be subjected to listening to music someone else picks out for me.

Why don't you listen to the vast amount of music you purchase monthly, instead of music someone else picks out for you?

I dunno, it's just worked for years, before bit torrent.
People discovered new music, bought CD's and albums etc......

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by Jam

Thanks for that, I think I have a better understanding of where you're coming from.

What I'm still not getting either from your post or the linked videos is, what new system or systems you are proposing ?

James

i really think its time to get rid of the FED once and for all-

PEOPLE need to make the choices, not bankers, this has been a struggle for hundreds of years, and its a battle most of use are totally sleeping on.

many people think 'this is the only way'
or 'its just the way'

when in fact, its not the way, and its slavery.

its absolutely slavery, we are nothing but cheap labor-

life is NOT about working- its about LIVING.

thats the system i propose- our system can survive through this, it has before and it will again- i'm not going to try and say i know everything about the financial systems, because i don't know that much, i just know ours right now, is wrong, its anti- american and its killing our country, and enslaving our people.

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by chrisso

Why don't you listen to the vast amount of music you purchase monthly, instead of music someone else picks out for you?

I dunno, it's just worked for years, before bit torrent.
People discovered new music, bought CD's and albums etc......

yea you found new music by hanging out at your buddies and listening to his records.

[Jam]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

i really think its time to get rid of the FED once and for all-

PEOPLE need to make the choices, not bankers, this has been a struggle for hundreds of years, and its a battle most of use are totally sleeping on.

many people think 'this is the only way'
or 'its just the way'

when in fact, its not the way, and its slavery.

its absolutely slavery, we are nothing but cheap labor-

life is NOT about working- its about LIVING.

thats the system i propose- our system can survive through this, it has before and it will again- i'm not going to try and say i know everything about the financial systems, because i don't know that much, i just know ours right now, is wrong, its anti- american and its killing our country, and enslaving our people.

Thanks again.

You have my promise it's something I'll give more thought to.

James

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by Jam

Thanks again.

You have my promise it's something I'll give more thought to.

James

thanks james, most people look at me like this


listen to this guy, i just purchased his cd. CHICAGO RED on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

[chrisso]

Bit of everything.....
Stuff on tv (there's actually quite a lot of music on tv here).
Talking to people.
Reading magazines.
Listening to the radio.
Not one thing does it all IMO.

I actually used to buy a lot of things unheard.
I used detective work.
Like if a favourite artist mentioned music he liked in an interview.
Or if I saw a favourite drummer was playing on an album I'd never heard before, or a producer I admired had a new album out he worked on.
Yeah, you might say it was unsmart consuming, as i bought a few duds.
But I saw it as educating my palette.
Like say food.
You try Chinese for the first time (probably a take away or in a restaurant). You might decide, no that's not for me I wont go there again.
I wouldn't say that was dumb consuming.
Your mileage might vary I guess.

[Jam]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

thanks james, most people look at me like this

I can't promise I won't as well once I've had time to do the required reading.

Originally Posted by xmostynx

listen to this guy, i just purchased his cd. CHICAGO RED on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

Again, thanks, I'll check it out.

James

[xmostynx]

all i'm saying is torrents are not the worst thing in the world.

the worst thing in the world is how we behave as humans. we still have to improve on that.


but to flat out call someone who downloads torrents a theif, is just as dumb as letting a pr campaign that promotes new artists for x records tell you whats a good record, and then expecting the records to be GOOD records.


i don't let anyone make choices for me- i spend all day thinking about what choices i should make. thats being human to me. maybe i'm wrong- who knows

like you said YMMVthumbsup

[spaceman]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

all i'm saying is torrents are not the worst thing in the world.

the worst thing in the world is how we behave as humans. ...

Good human behavior includes respecting other people's work. In this case, respecting the artist's choice not to have his work pirated, and used without the compensation he's asking for.

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

i don't believe so- i purchase alot of music monthly. and if it wasn't for downloading poor quality mp3's i would be subjected to listening to music someone else picks out for me. (clear channel, myspace top picks, etc etc.)

Clear channel and myspace aren't my source and never have been. You are suggesting people are powerless to hear new music unless the pirate. Bullcrap, people have choices and are not powerless.

yes your example cannot be compared to me because an mp3 is nothing like a childs organ. and you tried to make it worse by 'powerless poor american kids'
by you existing and spending money, you make people poor.
understand the system we live in before you try and push me down as a theif.

Really? Prove that with a flow chart , please.

Originally Posted by xmostynx

i really think its time to get rid of the FED once and for all-
PEOPLE need to make the choices, not bankers, this has been a struggle for hundreds of years, and its a battle most of use are totally sleeping on.
many people think 'this is the only way'
or 'its just the way'
when in fact, its not the way, and its slavery.
its absolutely slavery, we are nothing but cheap labor-
life is NOT about working- its about LIVING.
thats the system i propose- our system can survive through this, it has before and it will again- i'm not going to try and say i know everything about the financial systems, because i don't know that much, i just know ours right now, is wrong, its anti- american and its killing our country, and enslaving our people.

Though I may agree in principle with some of this, it won't save us.

Originally Posted by xmostynx

yea you found new music by hanging out at your buddies and listening to his records.

Well, are you a "remote viewer" who can translocate to se how other people do things from the comfort of their armchair?

Originally Posted by xmostynx

all i'm saying is torrents are not the worst thing in the world.
the worst thing in the world is how we behave as humans. we still have to improve on that.
but to flat out call someone who downloads torrents a theif, is just as dumb as letting a pr campaign that promotes new artists for x records tell you whats a good record, and then expecting the records to be GOOD records.
i don't let anyone make choices for me- i spend all day thinking about what choices i should make. thats being human to me. maybe i'm wrong- who knows
like you said YMMVthumbsup

I'm not calling everyone who downloads a thief, just those who download an don't buy but keep and use the download and those who facilitate that practice and abet it boldly.
Well, looks like you're on the same page as everyone else, more friends in low places.

[drBill]

Here's a thought. Free downloads for everyone that will not play after 7 days unless you buy the product. Problem solved for all those who just "sample" music to see if they like it. If the product is not deleted off the HD after 1 month, the nefarious deconstruction of the HD will begin ala memphi's idea. Perfect.

OK. Shall we solve world peace or hunger next???

[memphisindie]

Originally Posted by drBill

Here's a thought. Free downloads for everyone that will not play after 7 days unless you buy the product. Problem solved for all those who just "sample" music to see if they like it. If the product is not deleted off the HD after 1 month, the nefarious deconstruction of the HD will begin ala memphi's idea. Perfect.

OK. Shall we solve world peace or hunger next???

Yeah, that's the ticket!

[Crandak]

Originally Posted by triez

I have had a good life working in the music industry. You never will, and all because of people just like you. Not a put-down, just an observation.

How true. There are so many ways this generation is screwing itself because it's lost it's moral compass. We are already starting to see the effects in what these young thieves have brought to the world in what they've done on wall street, and it's only going to get worse. They may think there are no consequences to stealing a digital file, but the cumulative effect of everyone of these entitled turds is severely damaging the ability of those in the movie, tv, music, software, and publishing industry from making a living. Why should they care that they are taking food from the table of those they steal from, it doesn't effect them. It's that attitude that will start carrying over into all aspects of life and create an awful world to live in. They will richly deserve what they are sowing now.

[memphisindie]

They think if they remove everyone in positions in those industries, they will have room to be a rising star, and that's a pretty lame scenario not based on talent but, there's that theme again, non-merited self promotion.
People can rise to great feats of humanity over and in many generations, they can descend to the level an behavior of beasts in less than one minute.

If we do nothing about it, we are as guilty as the perpetrators.
What are we to do if all the parents on earth have abandoned their responsibility to teach their children right behavior over time? Just let it slide?

That won't pan out in short order.
Need proof, hang around anywhere on earth for the next six months.

[Chrislpp]

Say this whole piracy issue is resolved in some miracle and we're all happy again.

How are the labels going to justify spending thousands on shit acts and still selling nothing?

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by jihadjoe75

Work is slow right now and I feel like ranting...

I'm a college student who makes $8 an hour for my campuses IT support dept and quite frankly, I cannot afford to pay $10-$20 for a CD. Yep, I'm a pirate and I have been for a very long time. Although I do buy music on occasion. [...]

Joe

I'm sympathetic on some levels... I think most music is priced too high considering the cost of production and distribution. (Marketing costs, of course, often drive superstar pricing up. But, you know, if it takes all that marketing to get folks to buy the music, I kind of would feel like a sucker even bothering, you know? )

But...

I'm also on an extremely tight budget -- I don't go out for entertainment, I don't eat out, not even fast food (exception is the occasional $1 Wendys burger when I'm out in the world), and I almost never buy CDs.

But I get access to an ENORMOUS range of music every month through a Rhapsody subscription for less than the price of one CD. I can hear almost anything I want to hear. (And the few holdouts tend to be dinosaurs I was sick of decades ago.)


But let me pull an old guy and tell you about how I built my LP collection when I was little kid:

Though I lived in a comfortable above-middle class neighborhood, I mowed lawns and sold cleaning products and greeting cards door to door to support my hi fi gear and vinyl habit.

The average record in those days cost $4 or $5 [this was the era before chain record discount stores, which temporarily dropped the average price down to about $3 -- until the little indie stores were driven out of business and then they started ratcheting prices up higher than ever]... but some of my favorites cost a full $5.99...

Doesn't sound like much? Well that was 1964. Adjust $5.99 for inflation and you have $41.20. For 10 or 12 songs.


And it was uphill both ways to school. In the snow...

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by Chrislpp

Say this whole piracy issue is resolved in some miracle and we're all happy again.

How are the labels going to justify spending thousands on shit acts and still selling nothing?

Marketing costs.

[hurd300403]

don't care what the argument is. anyone working in the music industry that doesn't realize the mind set of the younger generation these days is going to have a real hard time surviving. we can talk back and forth on the issues all day long in forums, but kids these days (even bands that pay to have stuff recorded) don't expect to pay for music. period.