Making Money off Album Sales: Lovett

[travisbrown]

I've always wondered how Lyle Lovett made money off his albums since I figured his roster and production costs must be astronomical.

I saw him the other night here in Vancouver. 22 people on stage (23 when Shawn Colvin came out to do a couple duets). Few really heavy hitters like Russ Kunkel on drums, Viktor Krauss on bass, and Sweet Pea Atkinson/Harry Bowens/Willie Greene Jr. on BGs (oh, and the 8 piece gospel ensemble). The pianist's name slips my mind (not Matt Rolling), but was a world-class player. Makes me wonder how he makes money on tour either. Payroll must be huge.

For all those complaining about not making enough money off album sales:

Lyle Lovett sells millions, earns nothing | Entertainment | Reuters

Lyle Lovett: My Label Must Embrace Technology | Listening Post from Wired.com

But, I'm glad there is someone with talent out there who puts his love for making great music and playing with musicians and friends he obviously admires beyond merely making money. He did infer a couple times during the show that touring is when he gets to reconnect with friends and that he's glad that he's able to do what he loves most. A most humble but exacting artist.

[colinmiller]

Ah yes the old "only those who play live should be able to make a living in music' concept.

[travisbrown]

Well, I'm sure he'd like to make money off units too. Then maybe he could afford to move from a 24 piece band to 28. He was missing his horn section. And Francine Reed.

[danbronson]

Pretty cool. And no doubt what a lot of other artists' deals are like.

Seems to me most bands would do well to simply release their albums independantly of a label and just give them away online (especially since these days many people just download anyway). They wouldn't have major label advertising, and soundscan wouldn't notice, but they may get a lot of music out there that way, and they'd be able to cut a lot of the bullshit too. Then as always, they can make the money from touring as usual.

[travisbrown]

Well, they still need to recoup production costs. If you spend a million making a record (which Lyle's last production could conceivably have easily cost end-to-end) , you would at least want to break even on sales if you want to use albums as a sustainable promotional tool. It would be the difference between a recovery business model and a something like a capitalization project.

Since most albums that size are funded by record company advances, it's a pretty good chance they'll want their money back sometime.

The only people who are proponents of just giving albums away free are usually not the ones paying for it.

[danbronson]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

Well, they still need to recoup production costs. If you spend a million making a record (which Lyle's last production could conceivably have easily cost end-to-end) , you would at least want to break even on sales if you want to use albums as a sustainable promotional tool. It would be the difference between a recovery business model and a something like a capitalization project.

Since most albums that size are funded by record company advances, it's a pretty good chance they'll want their money back sometime.

The only people who are proponents of just giving albums away free are usually not the ones paying for it.

In Lovett's case that makes total sense. I guess I'm speaking more for the three or four piece rock band that records their album for $15,000.

[travisbrown]

Then we get back into the thing about the market being flooded with $15k albums. You have to weed through a lot of crap to find anything good. There are good things and bad things about being able to produce stuff so cheaply.

I can still appreciate the finely crafted large production. Lovett's albums sound like a million bucks (at least 'JJR' and 'Not Big, Large' do). The proliferation of the cheap crap makes it harder to warrant the big productions.

I'm not sure Axl's 'Chinese Democracy' will sound like $13m. And there will likely be democracy in China before it's released.

[danbronson]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

Then we get back into the thing about the market being flooded with $15k albums. You have to weed through a lot of crap to find anything good. There are good things and bad things about being able to produce stuff so cheaply.

I can still appreciate the finely crafted large production. Lovett's albums sound like a million bucks (at least 'JJR' and 'Not Big, Large' do). The proliferation of the cheap crap makes it harder to warrant the big productions.

I'm not sure Axl's 'Chinese Democracy' will sound like $13m. And there will likely be democracy in China before it's released.

Plenty of great albums have been made for $15,000 and plenty of terrible ones for $1,000,000 (and vice versa like you said). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course, so what those albums are specifically depends on the listener.

[goldenlotus]

Originally Posted by travisbrown

Then we get back into the thing about the market being flooded with $15k albums. You have to weed through a lot of crap to find anything good. There are good things and bad things about being able to produce stuff so cheaply.

I can still appreciate the finely crafted large production. Lovett's albums sound like a million bucks (at least 'JJR' and 'Not Big, Large' do). The proliferation of the cheap crap makes it harder to warrant the big productions.

I'm not sure Axl's 'Chinese Democracy' will sound like $13m. And there will likely be democracy in China before it's released.

Man I'd kill to work on a $15k budget. Try doing it for $5k all in!

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by danbronson

Plenty of great albums have been made for $15,000 and plenty of terrible ones for $1,000,000 (and vice versa like you said). Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course, so what those albums are specifically depends on the listener.

Indeed. But what do you mean by great album? The sonics? The songs? The drummer? The groove?

It's terribly difficult to get a $15k album to sound like $1m. Usually the difference is in having cool songs or good feel/sound than an exquisitely crafted recording. That's generally what makes a $15k album great.

I'd hazard a guess the majority of $15k recordings you are talking about are 4 piece bands playing straight ahead A-B-C songs, which are cool, but in a different category from large production recordings.

It goes beyond engineering and gear. Take Amy Grant's Christmas album (which I don't suspect everyone has heard, but everyone should listen to) - one of the reasons it sounds so great aside from the studio, producer/engineer and Amy herself, is the 40 or so top studio musicians in the country performing excellent arrangements on the album. It's a who's who of Nashville first call players.

It's sort of like the Aja of Christmas albums.

Generally $15k albums end up being an, "it's all we've got" project. Nothing wrong with that, but you got to have extraordinary talent or something going for you to stand out from all the other $15k albums. The bigger the budget, the more fully you can realize the project (if you got the talent to back it up). It think it simply a matter of scale.

Every once in a while you get a stellar album on a tiny budget (as you do with movies occasionally), but it's rare and a usually a very different beast than stellar big budget productions.

[ALL*MYTEE]

Why does not making money make him "cool" and "humble"?

I can't think of a better way to sum up the stupidity so rampant in the music industry right now. No wonder the industry is failing.

If you believe in starving for your art then go starve. In fact, if losing money makes you holy (or a better artist), then why not open your studios for free and play other people's songs exclusively? You'd be Jesus himself. Super cool and humble. Hell, live on the streets--you'll be great in no time.

Starve long enough and sooner or later you'll realize that it doesn't make you any better, just hungrier, more despondent and more angry.

It will also show you that insisting on what you're worth doesn't make you a bad person. Or--in industry terminology--arrogant or uncool.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by ALL*MYTEE

Why does not making money make him "cool" and "humble"?

Read the OP again. I never said his coolness or humility was due to his (lack of?) income. Nor do I advocate that position. It's easy to dismiss people who make it more about the money than the music. I also find it equally easy to dismiss people who are proud of thier humility in poverty, like poverty somehow validates their art. That's so last millennium.

I assume he scrapes by just fine. I mean, I don't hear of him working the nightshift at Krispy Kreme or anything and he hangs out with some of the cooler people in entertainment.

He comes off as a humble guy because he continuously indicates how honoured he is to be on stage with his players and friends. I find that honourable in such an accomplished musician. He apparently doesn't make money off units, so he works harder at touring. He admits that he'd like to make a little off unit sales, but that apparently doesn't affect his motive for doing what he does.

He explicitly says that he puts together his Large Band for his summer tours because it's his chance to be with his friends and do what he loves best. That's kind of cool. What a fun gig. That joy comes out in the performance.

Things like saying, "Y'know, I'm so glad that I had parents who worked hard doing the things they had to do so my generation can do the things we want to do". He's demonstrably thankful that he gets to do what he loves, and he does what he loves really, really well.

And here's the thing. I don't believe in starving for my art. I chose not to pursue professional musicianship because I find it easier to make money elsewhere, and that's more useful to me than the gratification I get from pursuing an art. This will likely simply remain a costly hobby for me.

So if you read that I was somehow equating coolness with derision of money, surely it's misread. I think he should make money off sales, he thinks he should make money off sales, you think he should money off sales, but that he isn't doesn't stop him from doing what he does.