How we are going to save the music industry

[mbradzick]

Hi all,

I wanted to start a thread dedicated to discussing solutions to what seems to be, by many people's standards, a crisis in the music industry. Record labels dissolve or get swallowed by corporations, and music, while may have the same strength of writers of the past, are sounding worse than ever. Please don't flame me for the exceptions to this rule like Coldplay and Radiohead. I'm talking about the majority of the stuff that gets released, especially the artists that are below the mainstream radar.

While listening to one of my favorite bands, Type O Negative, I was comparing the sound of their previous works on Roadrunner to their latest on SPV. There's no doubt the sound of the record from SPV is way underpar to their previous works. Whether this is the case or not, it hit me that while artists hardly ever made a dime from record sales, hot record sales is a snowball effect of positive influence. First of all, in my opinion there are fewer and fewer good-sounding records out there. A good and original-sounding record will boost tour sales and TOUR SUPPORT from the label. This benefits both the artist AND label. Second, hot record sales boost mechanical royalties and demand from companies to use a song in multimedia, thus boosting publishing royalties. This then effects publishing companies positively. And last but not least, the budget from labels, enabled by record sales, trickles down to the engineers, producers, mixers and writers that inhabit this forum.

I've been studying this changing musical landscape for some time now, waiting on the sidelines to see where exactly I can fit in and actually make a living at it. I'd like us all to put our heads together and come up with a solution to turn this thing around, and allow artists to make GOOD SOUNDING RECORDS AGAIN. At least let's give it a shot.

[ecsound]

by stopping celemony before they make some sort of "mixodyne" plugin that automatically takes a stereo track, divides it into each instrument, quantizes, replaces, eq's and comps it ---- all for $299

music technology is going to eventually bump back into itself when plugins produce the same perfect result as midi/reason. hold on to your analog gear- it'll be a bumpy ride, but it's heavy enough not to fall off.

[rack gear]

Originally Posted by Mitch97

Hi all,
A good and original-sounding record will boost tour sales and TOUR SUPPORT from the label.

don't we all wish this was the case... soon there won't be any labels to kick around anymore.

google will buy warner, microsoft will by sony/bmg, apple will buy emi (the only way to get those damn beatles masters once and for all!) and universal will merge with myspace as part of the Fox/Universal Hulu pact...

it's funny that when the business was the most corrupt, bands and labels made the most money (kiss, van halen, etc, etc). gazilions of dollars in payola, misspent adventures and corporate greed (not to mention million dollar recording budgets, hookers and free flowing coke) and every one still walked away with way more then anyone could ever hope to see today...

[glowworm]

i think it will eventually die and the only thing left will be independent labels for small nitch audiences. there is just no way to stop them from destroying themselves at this point.

[Kadden Heart]

it's a scary subject for me.
i'm 21 years old, just starting to get projects, mixing, tracking, etc...

nobdoy has the budget anymore, these little bands wanna give me $300 for 8 songs in two days ya know,...
even the big bands that dont have a big label,..it's not the same as it used to be.

there's no way to fix this,..
better music won't help, becuase "msic lovers" still will downlaod records, or burn them from a friend,.. tours are under-supported and kids don't go out to them.furthermore,..music is SO INFLUXED with bands nowadays that i can go see a show, with 6 bands, and leave going "man that was awesome"
but does anyone remember the days of seieng bands and being,,,,"touched" amazed, inspired?
not like that anymore.

the only thing we can hope for is people to start buying records again, i honestly believe that if we can crack down on ilegal downloads, and start using digital rights management (whether ethical or not) it will force people ot buy records,.. and on top of that,..here's my radical idea,.. stop playing music everywhere,...make mtv and fuse play music nonstop, only music,.. but no more phone music, jsut cut back on where we hear music,..this means radio also, they need ot stop playing hip-hop singles, and start playing a wide variety of music...

people will get in touch with the music agian,...they will love it, and will be forced ot buy the record, obviously giving more money to labels, more money to studios, and allowing the behemoth rooms to re-emerge.
,......home recoing scares me also, the all-american rejects first record was done striaght pro tools, in a little barn, and sold tons of copies, there's engineers poping up everywhere,..i mean look,..we have our own freaking forum now,..

only radical changes will bring us back to the good ole' days of music
and i for one,..am not willing to adapt and embrace the new ways, i want CD's to sell agian, i want money form labels, i want the music industry to be,.."big" again.

but there's really no way we an foresee right now,..

that's my rant,..i'm sorry if i seem out of touch, but this all just scares me.

[Kadden Heart]

and if you want proof,..
scour this site for a while and see all the questions "what should i get next ot help me proces my vocals, guitars, drums, and bass, my setup right now is an sm57, a fireface, and i'm running a cracked version of cubase"

"how do i mix vocals? should i use reverb more often than not?"

great....now people won't even google search the simplest things, and THESE are the guys that are giving us stuff like "soulja boy tell em"
and drowning us with worthless dribble that was recorded by a 16 year old singer/songwriter at mp3 quality and puts out a CD that nobody buys, but dammit if his single doens't sell 10,000 copies and STILL only made him 10,000 dollars.

ya know what, i'm gonna get out of pro tools, learn logic better, buy a PC, crack all the waves stuff, (logic will have ot be cracked too of course) and and record my band with sm57's at 96k 24 bit (cause that will make up for the 57's of course)
but don't forget,..i will still call myself a true music lover, and supporter of the music industry.

[ramjac]

put a steak thru its heart and start again.

when was the last time you bought a cd? maybe that should be a thread..

so many people make music now. loads of its good too. i just listen to people i know and people they know. i cant get any more in of a day.

when i buy its usually old jazz so thats not helpful at all to the industry as id like to see it able to pay us for our work. if i was re-mastering jazz albums id be happy...very happy! but frankly id love to see great new music being well produced and musicians and production teams getting paid.

people have to want to buy. they need something they cant do without. apparently the arctic monkeys had the biggest new entry sales ever in chart history so that shows people will buy when they want it. or that record companies know how to market and chart better than ever. timing. pre-orders, whatever they do.

wouldnt it be great to have to buy it coz you just couldnt live without it. some awesome music. one will come...

[glowworm]

i like to actually buy the cd from the band when I go to see them in concert. I feel that actually helps the band out more then the label. maybe im wrong but somehow i think my 10 dollars(yes I think cds should still be 10 dollars) is going to wind up in the gas tank.

[mbradzick]

Let's start talking about solutions.

Computers and the internet killed the record industry as we knew it practically over night. Ok maybe "killed" is a strong word but everyone is running around like headless chickens over WTF to do here.

What is the MEDIUM that people can't hack? Before CD burning/ripping you couldn't extract data from a cd. You used to be able to copy someones cassette but then everyone dropped that in favor of the awesome non-linear, higher quality CD. Then people took a step backward in sound quality for the shitty mp3 because it's free again.

Do you see a pattern people? Give them a shitty sounding medium that they can copy and they go hog wild. Give them something they want and have to pay for and they buy it. Why do people buy PS3 and Xbox games? Because they CAN'T PIRATE IT!!! The answer is easy!!

MAKE A MEDIUM PEOPLE CAN'T COPY AND DISTRIBUTE

People are like falling objects that will continue to fall unless you stop them. Stop them from having the ability to get it for free and they will have no choice but to pay for it. People have started to rip DVDs, and will continue to do so. It's like technology has entertainment companies leaving their office furniture in the middle of the street. Do they want people to take it? No. Is it human nature to see a nice oak desk, look around, scratch their head and take it? YES. Give someone the guilt-free option to take something and they will.

Now, what medium can we sell music on that people can't hack? Am I ******** in saying that people will buy music again if they can't have it for free? Think about it. If you could go to your friend with a Ferrari and make an exact copy of it even though someone far away says it's "illegal", who wouldn't do it? You can't though, and that's why you have to f-ing buy it!!

[SighBorg]

MAKE A MEDIUM PEOPLE CAN'T COPY AND DISTRIBUTE

Not currently possible if ever. As long as you can hear it you can copy it.

[intolerance]

Live MUSIC.

[Crandak]

Originally Posted by Mitch97

Why do people buy PS3 and Xbox games? Because they CAN'T PIRATE IT!!! The answer is easy!!

MAKE A MEDIUM PEOPLE CAN'T COPY AND DISTRIBUTE

sony makes an MS3 and microsoft makes an Mbox ... or musicbox... and music comes on a cartridge in high def audio. and neither makes a recordable cartridge. or better yet, why not just release music on game cartridges since the consoles are everywhere?

[Battles]

Pro Tools is not the problem. Home recording is not the problem. You said it ... the industry is changing. It's a good thing. The middle men are being thinned out because of technology. The key for the artist now is making great music and finding a new way to promote themselves. Promotion is the key. As far as the engineers go ... they are facing problems with not only the industry but with the economy as a whole. I think they will be alright. In the end, there will be many bands who need good studios.

I personally think the price of music needs to drop as the middle man goes away. CD's should be no more than $10 and digital albums no more than $8. There needs to be an open standard for DRM and the files need to be lossless. I am not going to buy an album for $10 that is compressed. I do buy at least one CD a month ... and I usually only pay $6.99 if it is through my club.

Piracy is an issue ... but I don't think it is because people don't want to buy music anymore. Face it, a lot of people in this world wouldn't pay for anything if they didn't have to. If cars, televisions, etc. could be copied/stolen without ever getting caught or really putting a burden on someone else's resources (resources ... not bottom line) ... they would do it in a heartbeat. I set sail on the seas every now and then ... but I pay for the good stuff. If music was cheaper ... I would pay for a lot more of it (or if a lot more good stuff came out more often).

[ryst]

Originally Posted by Mitch97

MAKE A MEDIUM PEOPLE CAN'T COPY AND DISTRIBUTE

I couldn't disagree with this more. This will just turn more people away. The industry is still in a transition. No one really knows where it will end up. But the most creative people will be the ones everyone else will follow for success.

[AllAboutTone]

Originally Posted by intolerance

Live MUSIC.

Speaking of Live music, our city holds a lot of downtown events all year round, all the bands in our city are pissed off.
You would think since local events support local art gallerys, paintings, beer, food etc that they would do the same with Live Music, they look us in the face and tell us that the crowd can hear the bands all year round at a club so they insist on hiring ALL out of town bands. Looks like to me that they would get more fans the bands pull than just show ups. Make no sense to me, the entire music scene is very upset with this issue.
Just a note, the club scene is down and live rock/blues/metal bands in my area, so you are lucky just to get a gig.
This change took over when we got a new operation manager, before everyone got a gig at the downtown live music.

[joelpatterson]

Why do all the "solutions" I hear sound like a variation on the theme "hold a gun to consumer's heads and make them stop responding to human nature!"

There is no way to bring back the fabled world where music was encoded in a tangible, physical product that you had to buy to listen to.

But then, I'm not sure if I see what the problem is. Musicians will always want recordings of their performances. That's what we do. They will pay good money for the service. They will arrange their distribution/publicizing/shows in a way to see a profit to pay for it.

So... what was the problem, again?

[narcoman]

agreed - there is only a problem in the minds of those who wish to cling onto the old model. That is gone. the golden age of rockstars flying round in private jets has ended. So what? It was the privelage of the few anyway.

How many CD sales were there in 1994? According to records - about 540million. How many last year - just under 500million. The peak was in 2000 - around 900million. Yes its in decline. But its not dead yet. there is still some money to make.

Any industry is what you make it - nobody deserves a career just because they can "do it". I music career isnt a right. If there isnt a demand, tough. Who cares? Not me. I love music - but propping up something because too many people wish they had the carerr of their idols is just narcissism. Music because you want to, music because you love it.

Nobody buys steam engines any more - that hayday has long departed. We just don't need loads and loads of half assed bands making music. I say let it go where it's going to go. You CANNOT turn back the clock - the damage is done.

[hanuman]

If studio's as represented here start a label, a kind of GStunes there will be an audiophile independent label that brings well done music.

[ramjac]

how many of those 500 million were by contemporary artists? how many were re-issues? and when was the last time your jaw dropped when you heard a tune for the first time?

[djwayne]

With billions of downloads sold via iTunes, I think the customers of music are making a statement loud and clear, they want downloads over cd's. They want the portability of music. They want to be able to buy just one song vrs having to buy a whole cd of songs they don't like for one song they do like. They like being able to shop for music at home online with their computers. These are things that are happening in today's music business. The cd isn't dead, but downloads are becoming the next new format, and becoming a whole new way of marketing music.

You gotta change with the times.

[dorisinger]

Originally Posted by Crandak

...why not just release music on game cartridges since the consoles are everywhere?

[[ Def Leppard UK.com ]] - Album News 9th Apr 2008

[PMoshay]

Its the same as it always has ever been............ nothing will change except where the money flows to.

if you are consistently great, you will survive & thrive as it has always been in any business.

People will never stop listening to & enjoying music...... and yes they will pay for it just like we do with TV (even though its free over the air).

[Infernal Device]

So doomsday approaches again, huh?

The industry has been "dead" for as long as I can remember.

Radio killed the industry
Tapes killed the industry
Computers killed the industry
Home recording killed the industry

Are there more bands? yep. Most of them suck? yep. Most of them always did. 15-20 years ago I remember going to see a cool band, while the other 6 bands sucked. Today I see a cool band, the other 6 six suck.

so on and so on.

It's 2008, I have never seen so many cool artists. I have never been more busy with work. I am booked seven months out. All the cool stuff is just not spoon fed to me in the mainstream, but when was it?

All these artists are selling plenty of product. Millions? no, but plenty.

See this as the end of music, or the birth of music. You decide. It's not going to change. Your outlook will change and you will make great music.

Or let doomsday happen to you.

[big country]

Originally Posted by joelpatterson

Why do all the "solutions" I hear sound like a variation on the theme "hold a gun to consumer's heads and make them stop responding to human nature!"

There is no way to bring back the fabled world where music was encoded in a tangible, physical product that you had to buy to listen to.

But then, I'm not sure if I see what the problem is. Musicians will always want recordings of their performances. That's what we do. They will pay good money for the service. They will arrange their distribution/publicizing/shows in a way to see a profit to pay for it.

So... what was the problem, again?

what if you sell a necessity item along with CD or what ever medium
isn't there a gnarly charge for using a CD as a medium


maybe a cheap thumb drive ROM music/flash for storage
or just make a hard to crack partition for the music side (hard wired partiton )
plus you can sell different variations quality of the recording

[Kenny Gioia]

Originally Posted by redvelvetstudios

it's funny that when the business was the most corrupt, bands and labels made the most money (kiss, van halen, etc, etc). gazilions of dollars in payola, misspent adventures and corporate greed (not to mention million dollar recording budgets, hookers and free flowing coke) and every one still walked away with way more then anyone could ever hope to see today...

Sad. But true. Kind of explains why "they" leave organized crime alone. It does more good than harm.

Originally Posted by glowworm

i think it will eventually die and the only thing left will be independent labels for small nitch audiences. there is just no way to stop them from destroying themselves at this point.

I agree. They have no idea how to stop the inevitable and all there really doing is making it worse.

Originally Posted by Kadden Heart

the only thing we can hope for is people to start buying records again,

That's already happening. People are buying more music thru iTunes rather than stealing it thru P2P. It's just not going to catch up. Subscription based is inevitable. It will be fair too. Everyone will get paid. Just nowhere near enough.

The supply and demand of this industry just doesn't equal out. More and more people want to be engineers and producers. Even more want to make music. Music fans have not grown by the same proportion. Not even close. So you have all these fans trying to divide their time between their favorite 100 bands. Years ago it might have been 5 or 6 bands. So each Artist gets a smaller piece of the pie. Even if that pie was as big as it used to be. But due to P2P stealing, the pie is smaller. Engineers and Producers also have tons of work with all these bands. But nowhere near enuff money to do the work. So you have to make records quicker or starve.

Originally Posted by Mitch97

Let's start talking about solutions.

To what? The industry? The industry doesn't behave as one living organism. Kind of like saying "The black population feel like xxxx". There's no such thing. Everyone acts as individuals and behaves in ways that serve there own interests.

From a personal or individual perspective, you (we) need to find a way to make a living in this current climate. Pretty simple. You (we) can't rely on how things used to work. Monetize yourself and your contribution. Seek out clients that either make money or have a good chance of making money. Find avenues that are still flourishing rather than doing the same thing that everyone else is doing. Look at Jules. I'm not going to guess at his current income situation but he has created a business that could not exist just 10 years ago. Based on music. There are many opportunities out there. Yes. It's easier to just do what the people before us did, but if you think about it, even they had to do it differently. Life is change. People seek comfort.

Enjoy.

[big country]

mp3 could have saved the music industry

[Bodoc]

Don't sell the content -- sell a content delivery system. And don't do it as "piece goods" like iTunes.

Charge a subscription fee for a service that is so compelling, well organized, user friendly, value added, etc that the alternative (sitting around and spending time searching to see what music some folks might or might not have made available to steal) is a relatively poor investment in personal time and trouble.

There is larceny everywhere in our society. But there are more people earning money than stealing it because it is actually more cost effective and convenient to develop a skill/product to trade value for value than it is to make a living snatching purses, embezzling, etc.

The service's catalog could be encyclopedic as well as current, featuring podcasts and specials, content filters, artist access and interaction, rapid downloads of superb quality and a variety of daily changing enrichments that would make the subscription fee a BARGAIN.

Artists could be rewarded based on downloads and/or some other formula.

This kind of service is already available in other content forms. One great example is HIGHBEAM.COM, which has a huge, flexible, multi-filtered, searchable database of newspaper, magazine, etc content. A great aspect of the Highbeam service is that subscribers may use copyrighted material in their own blogs.

Selling piece goods in the information age is, obviously, a loser. Making that model work by suing individual consumers is also, obviously, a loser. It didn't work for the horse and buggy and it won't work here.

[dangoudie]

Originally Posted by Bodoc

Charge a subscription fee for a service that is so compelling, well organized, user friendly, value added, etc that the alternative is a relatively poor investment in personal time and trouble.

Great idea, I'd actually been discussing this with a mate recently
and he came up with the same thing.

Part of the problem in the UK was that just before the whole mp3 thing happened CD prices were EXTORTIONATE!!!! Like £16-20 for a NON-imported album. It was bloody ridiculous. People just stopped buying CDs because they were so pricey and then a way of getting music came along that was cheaper (free) so they went for it. I still know a hell of a lot of people who would prefer to have the CD than the mp3 for the artwork and tactile presence.

I'm glad to see that iTunes are upgrading their file quality from 128 to 256kbps AAC so audio quality must be something they are trying to improve (or something they had got a load of complaints about!).

[big country]

I think it should kind be an issue of get off your ass to get it

down loading is lazy

[dangoudie]

Originally Posted by big country

down loading is lazy

That's why people love it